Mike Keenan - Detroit Red Wings

[Sergei Bure]

Mike Keenan after leaving Chicago, was close to sign with Detroit, so if the Red Wings had hired Mike Keenan in 1993 instead of Scotty Bowman, does the dynasty still happens?

 

[God]

Probably not under Keenan, who wore out his welcome basically anywhere he went, but they might've won the cup in 94 instead of the Keenan-less Rangers. And after they would inevitably get rid of Keenan, it's hard to imagine a team with Yzerman/Fedorov/Lidstrom not being good, though you wonder if they ever end up trading for Shanahan.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Mike Keenan after leaving Chicago, was close to sign with Detroit, so if the Red Wings had hired Mike Keenan in 1993 instead of Scotty Bowman, does the dynasty still happens?

No. f*** no.

He probably works his magic to trade away Kozlov, Fedorov, Lidstrom and others for guys like Noonan.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

No. f*** no.

He probably works his magic to trade away Kozlov, Fedorov, Lidstrom and others for guys like Noonan.

otoh imagine the hilarity of his goalie shenanigans and headgames with vernon and ozzie

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

actually this is a fun fanfic exercise

does he ostracize yzerman for no reason to make a point? keep in mind yzerman was later almost traded for yashin so he was far from bulletproof

does he destroy his two smallish non-workhorse goalies unsustainably riding them to 65+ game seasons?

how much is he going to love konstantinov?

under keenan does primeau turn into a franchise power center or does he demand a trade way sooner?

in chicago he went at big scary dave manson and them in vancouver he came almost to getting decked by both gino odjick and brashear. does he have the stones to pick on kocur amd probert just to make a point?

and yes, who gets traded for noonan, kravchuk, matteau, random old oilers, and greg gilbert?

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

actually this is a fun fanfic exercise

does he ostracize yzerman for no reason to make a point? keep in mind yzerman was later almost traded for yashin so he was far from bulletproof

does he destroy his two smallish non-workhorse goalies unsustainably riding them to 65+ game seasons?

how much is he going to love konstantinov?

under keenan does primeau turn into a franchise power center or does he demand a trade way sooner?

in chicago he went at big scary dave manson and them in vancouver he came almost to getting decked by both gino odjick and brashear. does he have the stones to pick on kocur amd probert just to make a point?

and yes, who gets traded for noonan, kravchuk, matteau, random old oilers, and greg gilbert?

The Yzerman for Yashin was very unlikely to happen, as much as it is/was talked about. Yzerman was like family to Mike and Marian Ilitch. And it ended in a press conference where Yzerman flat out stated he was NOT being traded. But Mike Keenan would have done anything he could to rile up Yzerman. It was Keenan who left Yzerman off one of the Canada Cup teams, after all. There was no love between these two.

In Detroit we nicknamed Primeau Primeau-donna. He probably gets traded way earlier, but for a far less important package. Old Paul Coffey and Primeau were traded for Shanahan. I can see Keenan doing the same trade for Chris Gratton, or maybe one of his old favorites from Chicago like Roenick? Then we could REALLY see Fedorov, Yzerman and Lidstrom get the boot.

 

[trentmccleary]

actually this is a fun fanfic exercise

does he ostracize yzerman for no reason to make a point? keep in mind yzerman was later almost traded for yashin so he was far from bulletproof

does he destroy his two smallish non-workhorse goalies unsustainably riding them to 65+ game seasons?

how much is he going to love konstantinov?

under keenan does primeau turn into a franchise power center or does he demand a trade way sooner?

in chicago he went at big scary dave manson and them in vancouver he came almost to getting decked by both gino odjick and brashear. does he have the stones to pick on kocur amd probert just to make a point?

and yes, who gets traded for noonan, kravchuk, matteau, random old oilers, and greg gilbert?

Keenan hounds Yzerman out of Detroit. His 'attack the biggest guy in the prison yard on the first day' strategy.

I think he would take to Fedorov, but I don't know how well it will go.

Primeau breaks out under Keenan and has a better career than he did. Iron Mike had a way with useless big guys (thinking of Creighton and Jokinen).

Then he'll trade all of the prospects for old Blackhawks or Oilers.

 

[The Panther]

Yzerman and Keenan hated each other, so perhaps Keenan would have traded Yzerman for a third-round pick or something...

Also, there was no dynasty.

 

[Buffalowing1988]

People are treating Keenan as if he was someone who would just let players who don't like him leave.
I sincerely believe that Yzerman would have worked under him fine, personal feelings aside.
Fedorov would have thrived under him.

He'd have been good for a two-year span, tops, but I think that team remains right in contention while he's there.

The correlation between Keenan and results is underplayed on this forum but he did back it up. He's not sustainable, but it's silly to think that he'd just crater an already good team. Maybe they don't win the first year, but they'd win in two years. Poor Yzerman as used to making adjustments for the team anyways. I don't see this stopping him.

 

[Buffalowing1988]

Yzerman and Keenan hated each other, so perhaps Keenan would have traded Yzerman for a third-round pick or something...

Also, there was no dynasty.

I firmly agree with this.

But I also think a Cup could have been won with them.

 

[Buffalowing1988]

Keenan hounds Yzerman out of Detroit. His 'attack the biggest guy in the prison yard on the first day' strategy.

I think he would take to Fedorov, but I don't know how well it will go.

Primeau breaks out under Keenan and has a better career than he did. Iron Mike had a way with useless big guys (thinking of Creighton and Jokinen).

Then he'll trade all of the prospects for old Blackhawks or Oilers.

Stop it. You act as thought Yzerman was a 23-year-old kid at that point. He'd have stayed regardless of the coach if they were winning.

I think you just have an anti-Keenan bias which is fine but he'd had made plenty of those guys happy. Dino, Ysebaert, Drake, etc. They would have done well with him. He would have kept them very competitive.

 

[The Panther]

Fedorov would have thrived under him.

You know, he might have.

Pavel Bure loved Keenan. Canucks fans don't want to admit it, but it's true...

 

[trentmccleary]

Stop it. You act as thought Yzerman was a 23-year-old kid at that point. He'd have stayed regardless of the coach if they were winning.

I think you just have an anti-Keenan bias which is fine but he'd had made plenty of those guys happy. Dino, Ysebaert, Drake, etc. They would have done well with him. He would have kept them very competitive.

Denis Savard was 28, Brendan Shanahan was 26 and Trevor Linden was 27. It's noticeably weird when every stop he makes, a big star needed to be traded out. It was a part of the discussion about Keenan in the 1990's.

 

[Buffalowing1988]

Denis Savard was 28, Brendan Shanahan was 26 and Trevor Linden was 27. It's noticeably weird when every stop he makes, a big star needed to be traded out. It was a part of the discussion about Keenan in the 1990's.

That's a fair point for Linden. No way I can argue with that.

I'd say Shanahan was an opportunist and happy to go elsewhere to begin with. Not sure on Savard so I'll let you be the judge but I'd also say that he was a net-gain for Chiacgo at the end of the day when he left.

 

[Buffalowing1988]

You know, he might have.

Pavel Bure loved Keenan. Canucks fans don't want to admit it, but it's true...

The distinction between reality and perception for Canucks fans for that run to this day is remarkable. Not that I don't appreciate it. I just think there were heroes made out of middling players for a decade or so afterwards on that squad.

 

[Sentinel]

IIRC Keenan played his horses and was not hellbent on rolling four lines like Bowman. With Fedorov given a free reign at offense, he rivals Lindros and Jagr (but, of course, not Lemieux) for offensive numbers.

 

[Big Phil]

Let's remember one thing here, Scotty Bowman wasn't exactly a popular coach with his players. He was not the shoulder to cry on type. He played mind games, he could drive a player mad. Steve Shutt said that you hated him 364 days a year, and on the 365th day you picked up your Stanley Cup ring. In other words, he won. Ken Dryden said that Bowman knew that the players wanted a lot of things, but what they wanted the most was to win. He would help them win and the players knew this, even if they resented him.

Sound familiar? Keenan is very much that same way. More erratic than Bowman? I think so. But still had ways of getting the best out of players. I don't know if there is a coach who gets more flack historically on here than Keenan. He coached the way a lot of coaches coached back then. In 2022 no coach can be mean or talk back to anyone without a social media meltdown. Keenan had a style, and it worked for the most part. Why doesn't it work with the Red Wings when Bowman used some unpopular methods that worked as well? It wasn't as if Yzerman and Bowman hit it off right away either. Or even Fedorov with Bowman.

 

[tabness]

This was actually close to happening lol

Illitch felt he was being too nice to the Wings players at the time, and Bryan Murray was just a pretty nice guy himself, which is why Bowman was bought in, but the other option that was floated around at least publicly was Keenan. Devellano had a part in convincing against this.

It would be interesting to see what happened with Keenan. Yeah, Yzerman would have hated it initially, but Yzerman and Bowman hated each other early on as well, and now look at their relationship. I honestly don't know how he and Fedorov would have hit it off, I can see it go both ways. Primeau under Keenan would be very interesting, he might have consistently become the player he could have earlier.

I don't think Keenan would necessarily remold the team into such a defense first team, but he might have just bought some grit to the wings and defense, and so you could definitely see some results in the mid nineties, and have some big numbers continue with the superstars (whoever remained lol). Ultimately, I don't think he'd have the staying power of Bowman though.

 

[Hobnobs]

Let's remember one thing here, Scotty Bowman wasn't exactly a popular coach with his players. He was not the shoulder to cry on type. He played mind games, he could drive a player mad. Steve Shutt said that you hated him 364 days a year, and on the 365th day you picked up your Stanley Cup ring. In other words, he won. Ken Dryden said that Bowman knew that the players wanted a lot of things, but what they wanted the most was to win. He would help them win and the players knew this, even if they resented him.

Sound familiar? Keenan is very much that same way. More erratic than Bowman? I think so. But still had ways of getting the best out of players. I don't know if there is a coach who gets more flack historically on here than Keenan. He coached the way a lot of coaches coached back then. In 2022 no coach can be mean or talk back to anyone without a social media meltdown. Keenan had a style, and it worked for the most part. Why doesn't it work with the Red Wings when Bowman used some unpopular methods that worked as well? It wasn't as if Yzerman and Bowman hit it off right away either. Or even Fedorov with Bowman.

The problem with Keenan was that he tried to emulate Bowman but never really figured out how to do it. He made knee-jerk decisions while Bowman was very calculated. Basically they both tackled the problem with the same attitude but Bowman did it with logic and strategy and Keenan did it with feelings.

There are still plenty of mean coaches. Ric Bowness is coaching in the playoffs right now. Not sure how you, yet again, manage to make this about 2022 and how everything is "soft".

Especially since neither coach are active in 2022 and one of them have a several worse rep than the other....

 

[Hobnobs]

This was actually close to happening lol

Illitch felt he was being too nice to the Wings players at the time, and Bryan Murray was just a pretty nice guy himself, which is why Bowman was bought in, but the other option that was floated around at least publicly was Keenan. Devellano had a part in convincing against this.

It would be interesting to see what happened with Keenan. Yeah, Yzerman would have hated it initially, but Yzerman and Bowman hated each other early on as well, and now look at their relationship. I honestly don't know how he and Fedorov would have hit it off, I can see it go both ways. Primeau under Keenan would be very interesting, he might have consistently become the player he could have earlier.

I don't think Keenan would necessarily remold the team into such a defense first team, but he might have just bought some grit to the wings and defense, and so you could definitely see some results in the mid nineties, and have some big numbers continue with the superstars (whoever remained lol). Ultimately, I don't think he'd have the staying power of Bowman though.

We wouldve seen trades like Primeau + Kozlov for Noonan + Matteau.

 

[ForsbergForever]

Olli Jokinen loved Keenan in Florida and credited him with helping him finally break out as a superstar so it seems like he wasn't always in a scorched earth/trade scorers for plugs mentality.

Fedorov, like Bure probably would have loved him since he was pretty much a Soviet-style coach.

 

[Hobnobs]

Olli Jokinen loved Keenan in Florida and credited him with helping him finally break out as a superstar so it seems like he wasn't always in a scorched earth/trade scorers for plugs mentality.

Fedorov, like Bure probably would have loved him since he was pretty much a Soviet-style coach.

You make no sense. It's like saying Dino loved Bowman because he was a canadian style coach.

 

[GoldenSeal]

Mike Keenan after leaving Chicago, was close to sign with Detroit, so if the Red Wings had hired Mike Keenan in 1993 instead of Scotty Bowman, does the dynasty still happens?

NO

 

[quietbruinfan]

Keenan rubbed many people the wrong way pretty quickly and those included superiors. He would have won at most one cup and Ilitch or someone would have fired him.

 

[FMichael]

No. f*** no.

He probably works his magic to trade away Kozlov, Fedorov, Lidstrom and others for guys like Noonan.

That goof Keenan would've wanted his buddy Messier too...Lost all respect for those 2 clowns after how they treated Linden.