Confirmed with Link: Middleton extended (4 years x 4.35M AAV, limited NTC)
- Thread starter Wild11MN
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- Dec 10, 2012
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Think the part that bothers me the most is that, he did this last year with three guys (extended a year before he had to), and two of the three had down years, and he didn't even learn the lesson to wait and see how this season goes. Even if you wait til the trade deadline, you're not getting a better deal here. It's one thing to extend them a year early and get a bargain, but he's giving them over market value with trade protection a year early.
Circulartheory
Registered User
I dislike it, I don't hate it. Term and AAV is well within reason. I expected 4x4 so going to 4.35 is within margins. 3/10 rating.
But again with the Foligno,Hartman,Zucc contracts, you HAVE to use this NMC/NTC as bargaining chips. You offer them to give players security while obtaining favorable terms in AAV or years.
In normal circumstances, I would be okay with a limited NTC but then go for a 4x3.75. That would be fine. But these aren't normal circumstances because you already got ... 10 players on NMC/NTCs?
That's not even including Boldy/Faber/Rossi. So you essentially have half a team on NMC/NTCs and its not even your 3 of your top 5 players. You CANNOT have a full roster of NTCs.
And you all know I like BG - I love our prospects, I generally like our trades, and I do agree with the style of play (so I like adding Trenin-type of player to team). And I also like the actual terms of most of the deals.
But this disregard of NTC/NMC as nothing is just asinine.
Like any form of business, any business without liquidity is in a dangerous place.
Dr Jan Itor
Registered User
Neutral.
Like I said before, I equate this much more to Hartman's contract than to Foligno's and now Trenin's.
Also, I think people think of the 3rd pair too much like the 4th line. The 3rd pair plays, unless you're devoid of NHL talent.
Like I said before, I equate this much more to Hartman's contract than to Foligno's and now Trenin's.
Also, I think people think of the 3rd pair too much like the 4th line. The 3rd pair plays, unless you're devoid of NHL talent.
Well Boldy does get a NTC on his contract, it's just not valid for a couple more years.
Faber and Rossi are on ELCs and not able too have one.
Rossi isn't a top-5 player on the team, there are at least 3 FWDs and 2 d-men better than him.
Circulartheory
Registered User
Somewhat fair.
But the point is, everyone has a current or soon-to-be current NMC.
The only players not with one will be Lauko, Trenin, Bogosian, Chisholm and the rookies. I might be missing some. But that isn't what the list should look like.
And these clauses need to get use much better hometown deals if given to non-key players like (key being Boldy or Kaprizov). We didn't get anything for it with all the depth players, and now with Middleton. The AAV was purely market value
- Nov 7, 2017
- 5,265
- 1,984
Guerin is a good man, he likes to hand out these no trade clauses. And fans get more and more frustrated...lol
Neutral, but more on the ‘dislike’ side of neutral. Like the player and what he brings but hate that Guerin is always making these deals before they need to be done. I’m fine when you’re getting out ahead of extending guys like Boldy and Faber. But the pair of deals today are certainly not team friendly in the slightest. I get wanting to be “fair” with players but 4x4 would have been more than fair. Now we’re at 4.35x4 plus M-NTC protection. I’m neutral on this deal, but finding myself feeling negative on Guerin. Given him the benefit of the doubt for awhile but he’s losing me.
Spurgeon
Registered User
I’ve been a strong critic of Guerin for a while. Never fully agreed with the buyouts & thought he made poor trades.
However, towards the end of the 22-23 season, I really started to envision what an absolute powerhouse this team could be by the 25-26 season. In exactly one year, Guerin has completely shit all over that vision.
$22.1M + NMC/NTCs for Gaudreau, Foligno, Zuccarello, Hartman, Middleton, & Trenin
What the hell is the point of building up a prospect pool if you’re just going to block all of the spots for several years after the dead cap goes away? Was there really not a better way to build around a forward core of Kap, Ek, Boldy, Rossi, Yurov, Ohgren, & Khusnutdinov?
Kap - Ek - Boldy
X - Yurov - X
Ohgren - Rossi - X
X - Khus - X
I don’t even want to look at CapFriendly to see the amount of cap this team would’ve had to play with next offseason. It’s just so unfortunate how Guerin gets attached to his own guys & this “grit” mindset that has done f*** all his entire tenure here.
However, towards the end of the 22-23 season, I really started to envision what an absolute powerhouse this team could be by the 25-26 season. In exactly one year, Guerin has completely shit all over that vision.
$22.1M + NMC/NTCs for Gaudreau, Foligno, Zuccarello, Hartman, Middleton, & Trenin
What the hell is the point of building up a prospect pool if you’re just going to block all of the spots for several years after the dead cap goes away? Was there really not a better way to build around a forward core of Kap, Ek, Boldy, Rossi, Yurov, Ohgren, & Khusnutdinov?
Kap - Ek - Boldy
X - Yurov - X
Ohgren - Rossi - X
X - Khus - X
I don’t even want to look at CapFriendly to see the amount of cap this team would’ve had to play with next offseason. It’s just so unfortunate how Guerin gets attached to his own guys & this “grit” mindset that has done f*** all his entire tenure here.
If we need to move a few nmc/ntc, we can and we will. Something tells me that if someone gets on the bad side of Billy they will probably be asking for a trade.
Dr Jan Itor
Registered User
Close to $50 million, less whatever Faber, Rossi, Wallstedt and Khusnuts get on their 2nd contracts, and Yurov + Buium's ELCs.
So probably ~$30 million.
Jesus comma Brodin
Effing Norris-Byng Brodin
I’ve failed to see what value he brings in any capacity to this team, aside from playing a heavier game than some so I absolutely hate it but that’s probably more on me than anything else.
Spurgeon
Registered User
I like Middleton quite a bit. Enough to be perfectly fine with the $. Fine with the term. (Kind of) fine that it was done early. But this is the Nmc/ntc that broke the camels back. I'm on the fire Guerin train now.
Dr Jan Itor
Registered User
I don't think we even know yet how many teams he gets. I wouldn't be sweating a 10 team NTL.
Thanks Doc, you're right... I should prolly take a step back and breath. But still. It's not even necessarily this particular contract, but a culmination of them
Spurgeon
Registered User
Dr Jan Itor
Registered User
The landscape has changed over the years, there is a legitimate argument for players to make regarding tax differences, especially in a Canada/US trade. 10 team NTCs almost feel like the standard starting point and I do not blame the players a bit for demanding this.
Dr Jan Itor
Registered User
I'd be curious about the number of 3+ year deals handed out recently (last 3 offseason) that did not include any sort of trade protection, excluding any very low dollar deals.
