OT: MIchigan Sports Thread: UM wins Natty Championship

[RabidBadger]

I didn't realize Sparty hockey was just this bad. Both UMs, tOSU, PSU, UW aren't going to sit back and feel bad for them and wait for them to get gud.

I know UM is pretty good but losing 8-0 in the knockout game in the playoffs is hapless. Now I'm pissed they beat Tech in the "GLI".

Tech is going to get dispatched quickly at this rate; Huskies and OT hockey name a better combination, although to Ferris' credit, they didn't go down without a fight.

Badgers giving ND a tough series. Maine was pissed after Friday, 8-1 over 14 BU last night.

I figured the B1g tournament was a ceremonial march to get to a Michigan/Minnesota final. Still, it was shocking to see Sparty roll over the way they did. They had some decent moments this year where you'd think they would be a pain in the arse to play ala Ferris State and Northern Michigan.

Something is quite wrong in Lansing.

 

[RabidBadger]

Yeah, I'm typically a huge MLB fan but the past few years have been brutal for the sport:

- Changing the balls
- Changing the foreign substance rules mid-season
- Astros scandal

And now this lockout, spearheaded in part by Chris "The Parking Lot King" Ilitch, nonetheless. It's really too bad.

It's a bad look when Ilitch was one of 4 owners to vote against raising the luxury tax ceiling, which is a major sticking point in the negotiations.

At this point, all my spring/summer fandom is going to Detroit City Futbol Club...a much better team for a much cheaper price with way more entertaining fans and atmosphere (plus $4 tall boys).

You're right though, it really is a shame. Opening day is THE premier sporting event in town. It's also a shame the sport is so willing to be the architect of its own demise.

 

[jaster]

It's a bad look when Ilitch was one of 4 owners to vote against raising the luxury tax ceiling, which is a major sticking point in the negotiations.

At this point, all my spring/summer fandom is going to Detroit City Futbol Club...a much better team for a much cheaper price with way more entertaining fans and atmosphere (plus $4 tall boys).

You're right though, it really it really is a shame. Opening day is THE premier sporting event in town. It's also a shame the sport is so willing to be the architect of its own demise.

So unfortunate. So many "commoners" like myself grew up with a passion for baseball, something these silver spoon billionaires A) did not experience themselves, and B) fail to recognize as a reality for so many people. My love for the sport is great, but it is not necessarily enough for me to look past what these owners are doing, and as much as it breaks my heart to think about, I'll give up on MLB completely if they push me far enough. And I know I'm far from the only one. Again, look at the mid-90s, they lost a ton of fans over that.

 

[RabidBadger]

So unfortunate. So many "commoners" like myself grew up with a passion for baseball, something these silver spoon billionaires A) did not experience themselves, and B) fail to recognize as a reality for so many people. My love for the sport is great, but it is not necessarily enough for me to look past what these owners are doing, and as much as it breaks my heart to think about, I'll give up on MLB completely if they push me far enough. And I know I'm far from the only one. Again, look at the mid-90s, they lost a ton of fans over that.

*sigh* I hear you. My 3 brothers and I all played in the local youth leagues. We spent additional hours in the back yard doing fly ball and grounder drills. My crappy one stoplight home town had a local park with a kids pool, some slides and swingsets and 3 baseball diamonds that had games going every day in the summer. Baseball was the one sport my entire family could watch together.

It's hard to turn your back on it when it's woven into your life like that. This could be the year that happens though.

 

[jaster]

*sigh* I hear you. My 3 brothers and I all played in the local youth leagues. We spent additional hours in the back yard doing fly ball and grounder drills. My crappy one stoplight home town had a local park with a kids pool, some slides and swingsets and 3 baseball diamonds that had games going every day in the summer. Baseball was the one sport my entire family could watch together.

It's hard to turn your back on it when it's woven into your life like that. This could be the year that happens though.

Yeah, very similar experience here. I played through high school and have always been in love with the game. Very similar to hockey for me personally. Alan Trammell was my first sports "hero" as a kid, before Yzerman. So many memories at old Tiger Stadium. Lots of memories being at my grandparents house in the summers, playing outside, my grandpa's garage radio always blaring Ernie Harwell calling games.

"Nostalgia" gets a bad rap these days, but baseball is indeed a romantic game. Though its kind of a silly movie, Field of Dreams puts that on display for example. It's just sad that a bunch of dickhead billionaires are happy to tear all that down as best they can.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

It's a shame, because a lockout is doing them no favors after the last couple of seasons.

Leagues need to cut it out with this shit. Like I have been about as die hard a sports fan as you could want to ever see for most of my life. It is becoming less and less something I can get into for just the fun of it anymore.

I'll be honest, I wanted the players and owners to have a tiff and us to lose a big chunk of the season. If you're willing to piss on your fans and whatever for what amounts to a pittance (as salaries are just going to continue to climb forever, but not as much as the rights fees you charge everyone to air your stuff on cable), you can all sit in a room and bitch about each other and I'll just move on.

It's insane to me that these leagues can't just be happy with the status quo of the owners making gajillions of dollars from the TV rights and whatnot and players getting bonkers salaries. Seriously, how is every league in such dire straits that they need to pull this acrimonious bullshit every five years? I mean, you know the NHL is gonna lockout again just as soon as they can and basketball will see what they're doing and run headlong into it.

There has never been more money flowing into these leagues than is currently pouring in. Get people with a pulse and a brain to be working on this kind of negotiation for the entirety of the previous deal or at a minimum a year or two before it ends as opposed to sitting on your thumbs, not doing anything, and then you say "Oh, we worked so hard in the last ten days, the whole ten days, before the deadline that we set.

 

[BSHH]

Leagues need to cut it out with this shit. Like I have been about as die hard a sports fan as you could want to ever see for most of my life. It is becoming less and less something I can get into for just the fun of it anymore.

I'll be honest, I wanted the players and owners to have a tiff and us to lose a big chunk of the season. If you're willing to piss on your fans and whatever for what amounts to a pittance (as salaries are just going to continue to climb forever, but not as much as the rights fees you charge everyone to air your stuff on cable), you can all sit in a room and bitch about each other and I'll just move on.

It's insane to me that these leagues can't just be happy with the status quo of the owners making gajillions of dollars from the TV rights and whatnot and players getting bonkers salaries. Seriously, how is every league in such dire straits that they need to pull this acrimonious bullshit every five years? I mean, you know the NHL is gonna lockout again just as soon as they can and basketball will see what they're doing and run headlong into it.

There has never been more money flowing into these leagues than is currently pouring in. Get people with a pulse and a brain to be working on this kind of negotiation for the entirety of the previous deal or at a minimum a year or two before it ends as opposed to sitting on your thumbs, not doing anything, and then you say "Oh, we worked so hard in the last ten days, the whole ten days, before the deadline that we set.

Who among the owners thought it would be a good idea to lock the players out and then wait idly for more than six weeks before making any new offer? For a league that wants to sell tickets for 2,430 regular season games per year alone, keeping cherished moments like Opening Day alive seems more than just vital to me. It is a shame, indeed.

Although I do not support his stance on the CBT threshold, I think it might be a little unfair to hold Illitch responsible for the lockout, since there are many other questions in dispute. But with his Tigers seemingly on the rise after several seasons in the abyss, Illitch really should have pushed towards a new CBA and a normal season. He obviously did not enough to prevent that most of the positive momentum about the Tigers has been stalled or already killed off.

Gruß,
BSHH

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Who among the owners thought it would be a good idea to lock the players out and then wait idly for more than six weeks before making any new offer? For a league that wants to sell tickets for 2,430 regular season games per year alone, keeping cherished moments like Opening Day alive seems more than just vital to me. It is a shame, indeed.

Although I do not support his stance on the CBT threshold, I think it might be a little unfair to hold Illitch responsible for the lockout, since there are many other questions in dispute. But with his Tigers seemingly on the rise after several seasons in the abyss, Illitch really should have pushed towards a new CBA and a normal season. He obviously did not enough to prevent that most of the positive momentum about the Tigers has been stalled or already killed off.

Gruß,
BSHH

I hold Ilitch and the other 31 owners responsible. I hold TV rights holders responsible. I hold the players (in some respect) responsible. Obviously the players to a lesser extent because there are definitely some disadvantaged classes within their union. If the owners had their way, they would have firebombed away a full third of the MiLB and shrunk rosters by around 900 spots total throughout baseball. However, a lot of the players' motivation now and resilency now is because they got bent over like Debbie in Dallas the last couple times. Also, it just irritates the hell out of me. Stuff like what is derailing the discussions now... did you just decide not to talk about it at f***ing all in the year leading up to this? Talks don't have to be binding, but my god, shouldn't you have some idea of what the other side would like to have happen?

 

[jkutswings]

I understand that owners handle all the overhead. But sports in general fail to hold owners accountable for the most basic of priorities with regards to entertainment: actually trying to present an entertaining product.

There should be a similar system to the luxury tax, but at the salary floor. And for every year that a team operates within a certain percentage of the minimum, they lose a certain percentage of revenue sharing. Force the Pittsburgh Pirates and Florida Marlins of the world to either start competing or sell their cash cows.

 

[Konnan511]

I understand that owners handle all the overhead. But sports in general fail to hold owners accountable for the most basic of priorities with regards to entertainment: actually trying to present an entertaining product.

There should be a similar system to the luxury tax, but at the salary floor. And for every year that a team operates within a certain percentage of the minimum, they lose a certain percentage of revenue sharing. Force the Pittsburgh Pirates and Florida Marlins of the world to either start competing or sell their cash cows.

Max Scherzer makes more per year then 3 teams spend on their rosters.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Max Scherzer makes more per year then 3 teams spend on their rosters.

That's the problem of those owners who are not paying for players. There absolutely should be a salary floor for you to be eligible for revenue sharing. If say... Tampa (Tampa may be good, they're just the first small market small cap I can think of) can't function without the revenue sharing, well the league should be rethinking whether they belong in that market. If they want to insist that a team should be in a lesser market, the league itself should be footing that bill. The players aren't asking for teams in shitty markets. That's what the league is wanting to do.

 

[jaster]

I don't trust Chris Ilitch. My gut says that because the NHL salary cap is much lower than the MLB soft cap, the Red Wings may be just fine, and they'll spend to the cap when they are competitive/it is appropriate. I worry about the Tigers though, assuming I'm still a fan. I worry Ilitch will handcuff that franchise because he's stingy. Passing on Correa and signing Baez feels like a preview of coming attractions to me.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

I don't trust Chris Ilitch. My gut says that because the NHL salary cap is much lower than the MLB soft cap, the Red Wings may be just fine, and they'll spend to the cap when they are competitive/it is appropriate. I worry about the Tigers though, assuming I'm still a fan. I worry Ilitch will handcuff that franchise because he's stingy. Passing on Correa and signing Baez feels like a preview of coming attractions to me.

Eh… I have a hard time being upset about that. Looking statistically, while Correa is better at everything, Baez really isn’t that far behind. Baez strikes out a hell of a lot more but he’s more likely to swipe a bag or two.

Correa would have cost the Tigers probably 325M for 10 years. I have a hard time of complaining that they got a guy who is really not that dissimilar for less than half that. Had they signed some like Adam Everett type, yeah alarm bells. But chasing Correa was going to be a fools errand and the team that is stuck with his 30-35M is going to regret it by like year 5.

Now I would keep an eye on it, but that specific call? I can see myself making it and not thinking that I’m going cheap with it.

 

[BSHH]

I don't trust Chris Ilitch. My gut says that because the NHL salary cap is much lower than the MLB soft cap, the Red Wings may be just fine, and they'll spend to the cap when they are competitive/it is appropriate. I worry about the Tigers though, assuming I'm still a fan. I worry Ilitch will handcuff that franchise because he's stingy. Passing on Correa and signing Baez feels like a preview of coming attractions to me.

Even though the Tigers are saddled with the second worst contract in the MLB (unless someone miraculously wants Bauer to pitch again), Illitch has not been stingy. There were rumors that the Tigers offered Correa a $ 275m/10y-contract, which he did not sign. Obviously the Tigers made the best offers to Baez and E. Rodriguez, so both signed before the lockout. The Tigers also took on Barnhart's salary, which was too rich for the Reds, despite having Haase and Garneau already on the roster.

Before this off-season, the Tigers always spent even the maximum amount of overage on their signing bonuses for draftees, just narrowly avoiding getting stripped of picks but accepting a financial penalty. Even if only one of them had a good season, but veteran starters like Fiers, Nova, Liriano or Ureña each cost more than $ 5m to come to Detroit (a threshold several teams avoid for BOR veterans). Illitch even paid $ 16m for the Tigers to get better prospects for Verlander.

Even when the rosters had lower payrolls, the Tigers invested a lot of money in new development personnel and equipment at Lakeland. I also have a hard time believing that Hinch or Fetter signed just because of their devotion for the Old English D...

If Illitch were stingy, it would show with the Red Wings as well. But this Illitch entity lured Yzerman away with Holland still on the payroll and made a few trades where the took on salary for draft picks (most notably Staal). Just like with the Tigers, I actually hope that the Red Wings will refrain from signing too many veterans, because I want to see their younger players getting some chances.

Denying the players any rise of the CBT threshold is a silly idea and almost untenable stance in these tense negotiations. But it may indeed be because of keeping the future Tigers teams in competition and not off the field.

Gruß,
BSHH

 

[FabricDetails]

Maybe I'm missing something but his statement made me laugh (ironically) a little.

 

[jaster]

Eh… I have a hard time being upset about that. Looking statistically, while Correa is better at everything, Baez really isn’t that far behind. Baez strikes out a hell of a lot more but he’s more likely to swipe a bag or two.

Correa would have cost the Tigers probably 325M for 10 years. I have a hard time of complaining that they got a guy who is really not that dissimilar for less than half that. Had they signed some like Adam Everett type, yeah alarm bells. But chasing Correa was going to be a fools errand and the team that is stuck with his 30-35M is going to regret it by like year 5.

Now I would keep an eye on it, but that specific call? I can see myself making it and not thinking that I’m going cheap with it.

Correa is a tier above Baez. Detroit settled. You never know with health, but Baez also has a game that is going to drop off much quicker than Correa, and he's already 2 years older. The huge amount of swing-and-miss in his game (high K%), combined with his impatience (low BB%), is already an issue, and is a big red flag moving forward. His contract is at high risk of looking worse than Correa's will at the end, assuming Baez doesn't opt out after 2023. Baez is a lightning rod, and he's going to bring excitement, but he has major holes in his game that keep him from reaching the better and more stable level that Correa exists at. And while Baez has better wheels and is quicker, he also takes a lot of risks and gets caught a lot. But SBs are less valuable than most people think anyway, so it's not much of a factor in the end.

I can accept an argument that the vast amount of money saved on Baez vs Correa is worth it, if Ilitch spends in other places to make that up. I'm not convinced he will.

 

[jaster]

Even though the Tigers are saddled with the second worst contract in the MLB (unless someone miraculously wants Bauer to pitch again), Illitch has not been stingy. There were rumors that the Tigers offered Correa a $ 275m/10y-contract, which he did not sign. Obviously the Tigers made the best offers to Baez and E. Rodriguez, so both signed before the lockout. The Tigers also took on Barnhart's salary, which was too rich for the Reds, despite having Haase and Garneau already on the roster.

Before this off-season, the Tigers always spent even the maximum amount of overage on their signing bonuses for draftees, just narrowly avoiding getting stripped of picks but accepting a financial penalty. Even if only one of them had a good season, but veteran starters like Fiers, Nova, Liriano or Ureña each cost more than $ 5m to come to Detroit (a threshold several teams avoid for BOR veterans). Illitch even paid $ 16m for the Tigers to get better prospects for Verlander.

Even when the rosters had lower payrolls, the Tigers invested a lot of money in new development personnel and equipment at Lakeland. I also have a hard time believing that Hinch or Fetter signed just because of their devotion for the Old English D...

If Illitch were stingy, it would show with the Red Wings as well. But this Illitch entity lured Yzerman away with Holland still on the payroll and made a few trades where the took on salary for draft picks (most notably Staal). Just like with the Tigers, I actually hope that the Red Wings will refrain from signing too many veterans, because I want to see their younger players getting some chances.

Denying the players any rise of the CBT threshold is a silly idea and almost untenable stance in these tense negotiations. But it may indeed be because of keeping the future Tigers teams in competition and not off the field.

Gruß,
BSHH

To be clear, I'm describing Chris Ilitch the person as stingy. Because he is. His recent identification as a salary-suppresor is just another notch in that belt. How much of that stinginess translates to his decisions as the owner of the Tigers is largely left to be seen, but I don't think it portends well. And I don't think it would necessarily show up with the Wings. There is a threshold between the cost of the Tigers vs the Wings that he may very well be operating at (I don't have revenue numbers in front of me, but the Tigers payroll is twice that of the Wings).

Like with Baez, I hope Ilitch proves me wrong. Truly. I'm not holding my breath though.

 

[Ricelund]

I don't trust Chris Ilitch. My gut says that because the NHL salary cap is much lower than the MLB soft cap, the Red Wings may be just fine, and they'll spend to the cap when they are competitive/it is appropriate. I worry about the Tigers though, assuming I'm still a fan. I worry Ilitch will handcuff that franchise because he's stingy. Passing on Correa and signing Baez feels like a preview of coming attractions to me.

I don't trust Chris either. However, the rumor is he's always cared more about the Wings than the Tigers.

Supposedly they offered Correa $275M and he wasn't interested. That's fine. I don't think it would be wise to go over $300M. I was annoyed initially but I'm happy with Baez. What I really worry about is Hinch leaving if he gets the sense that Ilitch isn't willing to spend enough to put together a real contender.

 

[BSHH]

To be clear, I'm describing Chris Ilitch the person as stingy. Because he is. His recent identification as a salary-suppresor is just another notch in that belt. How much of that stinginess translates to his decisions as the owner of the Tigers is largely left to be seen, but I don't think it portends well. And I don't think it would necessarily show up with the Wings. There is a threshold between the cost of the Tigers vs the Wings that he may very well be operating at (I don't have revenue numbers in front of me, but the Tigers payroll is twice that of the Wings).

Like with Baez, I hope Ilitch proves me wrong. Truly. I'm not holding my breath though.

You may be right, of course. However, the Correa/Baez-decision might not serve as a proper illustration:

Baez is signed to an AAV which will likely become 2/3rds of what Correa will get. And just like you, I also assume that Correa's WAR during the upcoming six years (Baez' contract length) will probably be more than 150% of Baez' WAR.

However, Correa will presumably be on his team's payroll for three or four additional years with fading WAR. This might restrain the team, since the CBT or even a salary will likely still be in place. So signing Baez could very well be because of financial flexibility instead of mere savings.

Gruß,
BSHH

 

[Bondurant]

Raises Hot-N-Ready prices and cancels baseball. Chris Ilitich is in league with Satan.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

Well the wolverines collapsed. So did a lot of other teams though.

 

[RabidBadger]

Well the wolverines collapsed. So did a lot of other teams though.

I think we still have a good chance of getting a Michigan team to the final four....of the NIT.

Serious question though; can anyone remember both teams being this awful in the same year?

 

[FabricDetails]

Brady really just pull an April Fools in March?

 

[SpookyTsuki]

Brady really just pull an April Fools in March?

He’s still one of the best qbs in football lol probably will be for another 5+ years

 

[SpookyTsuki]

Both Michigan teams got in the tournament.