OT: MIchigan Sports Thread: UM wins Natty Championship

[jfrank21]

He wanted out. The Lions actually did right by a guy and you're looking to complain about it. I mean, I understand shitting on the Lions because they're the Lions but come on, man.

I think you misunderstand my position. I wanted the best for the LIONS, ie better draft picks. Stafford winning and the press shitting all over Detroit because they somehow managed to "ruin" his career is what I didn't particularly want. I had my heart broken enough times to know that it wasn't all just "Detroit being Detroit". Stafford was a part of that ineptitude. Yes, the Lions got screwed on many bad calls over the years, but Matt was also good for a crucial turnover in almost every big game. I get that the Patricia years had the wheels fall off and that's all people are thinking about....but I've been watching since Barry. Stafford had the #2 Defense and the best reciever in the game in like 2014 and couldnt get it done. So good for him that they did him a solid, but watching those interviews prior to the superbowl...Matt even said that after meeting with McVay in Cabo, him and Kelly went straight to LA to find a school for their kid. Doesn't exactly sound like he gave the Lions many options...

 

[newfy]

I'm actually surprised at how much I don't care that he won it. I was pulling hard for the bengals because it was a much better story to me. If the Rams dont fall off the rails next season, then the Lions basically traded Stafford away for Jared Goff, 2 2nd rounds picks and a 3rd rd comp pick. Which would be the most Lionsesque result possible for your best QB in 50 years.

I think the Rams winning it this year was the best realistic scenario for the Lions actually. Theres talk of quite a few guys leaving/retiring from the Rams, including Mcvay and Donald since they won the superbowl. Now that theyw on a superbowl I also kinda hope they get a lot of injuries (nothing serious), just guys missing games leading to lost games. It would be nice if Stafford missed some time lol

 

[jfrank21]

I think the Rams winning it this year was the best realistic scenario for the Lions actually. Theres talk of quite a few guys leaving/retiring from the Rams, including Mcvay and Donald since they won the superbowl. Now that theyw on a superbowl I also kinda hope they get a lot of injuries (nothing serious), just guys missing games leading to lost games. It would be nice if Stafford missed some time lol

Yeah, it just sucks...this draft doesn't have a top end QB or WR to take at #2...so we are basically forced to hope that Goff works out in the long run because otherwise the Lions basically have to use all that extra draft capital to move up for a QB because I don't see them sucking as bad next year. The schedule will be easier and I think the team will be closer to .500.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Yeah, it just sucks...this draft doesn't have a top end QB or WR to take at #2...so we are basically forced to hope that Goff works out in the long run because otherwise the Lions basically have to use all that extra draft capital to move up for a QB because I don't see them sucking as bad next year. The schedule will be easier and I think the team will be closer to .500.

Think of it this way though. If you like Malik Willis at all (QB from Liberty who was an Auburn transfer), 32 seems like a pretty good place to take him. Also, the Lions took Goff back and thought he was a plus asset, not a negative asset. You also had to know that the picks was going to be 24-32 this year and then you roll the dice that the "all-in" Rams would take a step back next year whether they won or not.

 

[jkutswings]

Yeah, it just sucks...this draft doesn't have a top end QB or WR to take at #2...so we are basically forced to hope that Goff works out in the long run because otherwise the Lions basically have to use all that extra draft capital to move up for a QB because I don't see them sucking as bad next year. The schedule will be easier and I think the team will be closer to .500.

There's a strange phenomenon recently in the NFL, with several legit starting QBs changing cities (likely Wilson, Rodgers, Watson). So there's at least the possibility that Goff could be a placeholder for another year or two, then Detroit could land a QB via trade or free agency (if not from the draft).

 

[jfrank21]

There's a strange phenomenon recently in the NFL, with several legit starting QBs changing cities (likely Wilson, Rodgers, Watson). So there's at least the possibility that Goff could be a placeholder for another year or two, then Detroit could land a QB via trade or free agency (if not from the draft).

But this is the Lions....I dont see them as "premier" location for a hired gun QB. Now, maybe I'm wrong and Campbell and his staff get a good enough rep around the league that they can become more enticing, but I think it's asking a lot for a couple of years of good word of mouth to erase 5 decades of poor management. I mean, I hope they do because it's kinda hard to plug every major roster hole with a draft pick but ultimately the jury is still out. The other wrinkle in all of this is that no matter the culture change in the room, the franchise itself has to stop being the NFL's footstool. Just because the Lions get competitive again doesnt mean theyll get the Packers/Patriots/Steelers treatment, and that's a whole other headache in itself. (Cough, Dallas playoff game and picked up flag...cough, Rodgers phantom facemask and game winning hail mary....cough, "the process" and catch that wasnt...cough, the thanksgiving challenge fiasco....and the list goes on).

 

[guinness]

It's an organizational issue with Detroit. So much that has to be turned over.

Starting with the Fords. They can be the nicest people to work for, but they've owned the team since 1962, 63? In a league where parity rules, it surprises me just how bad the Lions are.

As for a QB, Brady was a 6th rounder IIRC. Need a game manager, not necessarily a slinger. Cooper Kupp went to Eastern Washington, SB MVP. Good scouting and a bit of luck gets the team players, get a couple stars when the time is right.

 

[newfy]

Yeah, it just sucks...this draft doesn't have a top end QB or WR to take at #2...so we are basically forced to hope that Goff works out in the long run because otherwise the Lions basically have to use all that extra draft capital to move up for a QB because I don't see them sucking as bad next year. The schedule will be easier and I think the team will be closer to .500.

They might be out of a spot where they can draft one of Stround or Young come draft time but thats not a guarantee either. They have the second worst superbowl odds next season. I really doubt theyre .500next year.

But even if they play their way out of the top 2, that doesnt mean there isnt going to be another couple guys that go in the top ten either. The coastal carolina kid is projected pretty high, same with the kid from Florida, could Rattler bounce back?. This year the QB class is weak for sure but that doesnt mean every year only has 2 QBs worth taking. Look at where guys like Josh Allen and Mahomes got picked... I dont see the Lions picking out of that range

edit: Just looked at a couple mocks, QBs getting top 10 attention are Stround, Young, McCall (Coastal Carolina kid), Jurkovec from Boston College, Rattler, Richardson (Florida), and Uigaleialie from Clemson.

Not all those guys are gonna end up high picks, some could pull a Rattler from this year, but theres also a chance for guys to come out of nowhere as well. Next year will 100% be a better QB draft and likely will be even if you dont count Stroud and Young

 

[Bench]

 

[Ed Ned and Leddy]

They might be out of a spot where they can draft one of Stround or Young come draft time but thats not a guarantee either. They have the second worst superbowl odds next season. I really doubt theyre .500next year.

But even if they play their way out of the top 2, that doesnt mean there isnt going to be another couple guys that go in the top ten either. The coastal carolina kid is projected pretty high, same with the kid from Florida, could Rattler bounce back?. This year the QB class is weak for sure but that doesnt mean every year only has 2 QBs worth taking. Look at where guys like Josh Allen and Mahomes got picked... I dont see the Lions picking out of that range

edit: Just looked at a couple mocks, QBs getting top 10 attention are Stround, Young, McCall (Coastal Carolina kid), Jurkovec from Boston College, Rattler, Richardson (Florida), and Uigaleialie from Clemson.

Not all those guys are gonna end up high picks, some could pull a Rattler from this year, but theres also a chance for guys to come out of nowhere as well. Next year will 100% be a better QB draft and likely will be even if you dont count Stroud and Young

Yeah, even if it is the case that Young and Stroud end up a consensus #1 and #2 (and a lot can change in a CFB year), I wouldn't give up hope. There could definitely be other quality quarterbacks available with our first.

Even taking a swing on a Jalen Hurts type of quarterback in the 2nd round, in my opinion, could be a big upgrade on Goff.

Building around Goff is an absolute last resort for me. I think Holmes and Campbell are posturing when they talk about him as "the guy," I'd bet that we take a QB in the first couple rounds one of these next couple years.

 

[BSHH]

(...)

Building around Goff is an absolute last resort for me. I think Holmes and Campbell are posturing when they talk about him as "the guy," I'd bet that we take a QB in the first couple rounds one of these next couple years.

Building around Goff is the lone sane choice for the Lions. After Lynn was dismissed as OC, Goff's play improved massively - despite not having his Pro Bowl center and a lackluster receiver group which was depleted by injury as well.

None of the QBs in this draft is projected to become a noteworthy NFL QB, unlike Goff was when he was drafted. Goff has a huge cap hit anyway, so the Lions should absolutely find out whether his late-season surge was a fluke or for real. There is virtually nothing to lose: Either Goff plays at least decently or the Lions will have a high pick in the 2023 draft which will likely feature a more appealing selection of QBs.

Gruß,
BSHH

 

[Bench]

 

[jkutswings]

Thanks, Bench. Or as Cam Neely would say, do you wanna kick my dog while you're at it?

 

[Reality Check]

Was happy for Stafford when he was traded and I'm happy he won the Super Bowl.

That said, he still doesn't get a free pass in Detroit. Not when Erik Kramer has more playoff wins as a Lions QB than Stafford.

Lions are the Lions but anyone trying to solely blame this sorry franchise is mistaken.

 

[Bench]

Lions are the Lions but anyone trying to solely blame this sorry franchise is mistaken.

I think you'll be lucky if you see another Lions QB as good as Stafford in your lifetime.

 

[jkutswings]

I think you'll be lucky if you see another Lions QB as good as Stafford in your lifetime.

That would be yet another indictment on the franchise. My expectation is to draft / trade for / sign somebody of at least that caliber (top ten in the league) in the next 3-5 years.

 

[Bench]

That would be yet another indictment on the franchise. My expectation is to draft / trade for / sign somebody of at least that caliber (top ten in the league) in the next 3-5 years.

Stafford level QBs don't come along often. That isn't to say you can't build a successful and winning team, but if your bar for success is getting another guy like him again - I'm just saying it could be a long wait. He was really good.

 

[jkutswings]

Stafford level QBs don't come along often. That isn't to say you can't build a successful and winning team, but if your bar for success is getting another guy like him again - I'm just saying it could be a long wait. He was really good.

I fully admit my expectations are very high, but not specifically on the QB. Let me explain.

I personally view Stafford as a top 7-10 QB. Not elite, but definitely above average. And let's say that only a top 5 front office is good enough and lucky enough to land a QB of that caliber within a 5 year period of trying to do so.

I expect that either the current Detroit front office is that good, or that within 5 years ownership installs a new front office.

You're either setting the bar to build one of the best teams in the league, or you're wasting time.

 

[Reality Check]

I think you'll be lucky if you see another Lions QB as good as Stafford in your lifetime.

That, itself, is a kind of a low bar.

Stafford is a good, middle-tier to slightly above QB that played on a stacked team. The best team the Lions ever had with Stafford was in 2014.

Had the chance to win the division in week 17 in Green Bay and lost. Had the chance to win the Wild Card game in Dallas and lost. The latter of which Stafford and the offense was a no show in the second half. Stafford was also pretty iffy down the stretch of the regular season for the Rams and in the Super Bowl. Aaron Donald, the guy Detroit passed on to take Eric Ebron, was the real MVP of that game.

To Stafford's credit, he drove LA down the field to win the game. But so has Nick Foles and Eli Manning.


Now if Stafford wins another or can take the Rams back to the Super Bowl, which is certainly possible as the NFC is the weaker conference right now, this argument may change

 

[Bench]

That, itself, is a kind of a low bar.

Stafford is a good, middle-tier to slightly above QB that played on a stacked team.

Well, as a fan of a division rival just let me say I disagree with this pretty damn strongly. Stafford is a top 5-10 guy any given year and more than good enough to be the catalyst to winning it all.

If that's the "low bar" I feel like you are in for a real wake up call with how garbage QBs can get. You only need to look at the Vikings and Bears, your division friends, to see how many decades and QBs you need to cycle through to even get somebody average like Cousins.

Now I totally think moving on from Stafford and getting trade value was the correct call (not that the Lions had any say in it), but it's really hard to land a QB better than him for the majority of teams.

Like look at how Denver has flailed around trying literally everything they can do and only had any luck when Manning gave them a few twilight years. It's been 7 years since and the only thing they have to show for it is MAYBE they get a chance to trade for Rodgers. That's a franchise that has drafted pretty damn well and made overall decent moves and built a great defense and yet that QB evades them.

Teams have to wait 20+ years sometimes to get anyone as good as Stafford... That's the ugly reality. And trust me as my QB might get traded or retire soon, I know that could be my franchise sooner than later.

 

[RabidBadger]

QUOTE="Bench, post: 182863440, member: 129323"

Teams have to wait 20+ years sometimes to get anyone as good as Stafford... That's the ugly reality. And trust me as my QB might get traded or retire soon, I know that could be my franchise sooner than later.

Ah, it was a nice little 35 year run of excellent qbs in Green Bay in the Madjkowskil/Fav-ruh/Rogers era. All the while casting off guys like Warner, Hasselback, the dude who went to the Saints whose name eludes me....Brunell too?

That's some serious good qb juju in Title Town.

 

[Bondurant]

Building around Goff is the lone sane choice for the Lions. After Lynn was dismissed as OC, Goff's play improved massively - despite not having his Pro Bowl center and a lackluster receiver group which was depleted by injury as well.

None of the QBs in this draft is projected to become a noteworthy NFL QB, unlike Goff was when he was drafted. Goff has a huge cap hit anyway, so the Lions should absolutely find out whether his late-season surge was a fluke or for real. There is virtually nothing to lose: Either Goff plays at least decently or the Lions will have a high pick in the 2023 draft which will likely feature a more appealing selection of QBs.

Gruß,
BSHH

Goff was a step back from Stafford but he remains a capable NFL QB. Some people want to believe he is minced meat or journeyman caliber at best. Moving away from Lynn changed his game immensely. Guy was a dropped TD pass away from possibly have a Super Bowl ring. He is not long term but will be a solid bridge QB and if analysts are correct the other side of the bridge is not going to be a QB drafted in '22.

 

[Ben Grimm]

According to one expert MI is one of the last four teams in the NCAA tourney!

 

[ManwithNoIdentity]

Are buy outs in college football coaching contracts common? That seems like it’ll hang over Harbaugh like a cloud the entire time he’s here

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Are buy outs in college football coaching contracts common? That seems like it’ll hang over Harbaugh like a cloud the entire time he’s here

I don't know that I've ever seen a big time college coach that doesn't have one. They are SUPER common.