McDonagh trade

[ETTER DE]

It wouldn't have been a little less. You would've gotten a prospect and a 1st... that's half of what they got. Also, Stepan is not a comparable type of trade. He had 4 years left on his contract. McDonagh was a rental... granted for 2 playoff seasons, but a rental nonetheless. You're severely overvaluing the worth of players in that situation. I should also point out that the Rangers didn't retain any salary on that transaction, which often inflates the value of other rentals.

My takeaway from your posts in this thread: you have no handle on the value of assets in today's NHL.

Better to trade with someone else then? To maximize the return.

A little bit surprised that a guy who apparantly has followed the NHL as long as you still has not got it: There is no exact trade value for any player. You wait as long as you can and hope someone get desperate. Sakic and the Duchene trade springs to mind.

 

[Tawnos]

Better to trade with someone else then? To maximize the return.

A little bit surprised that a guy who apparantly has followed the NHL as long as you still has not got it: There is no exact trade value for any player. You wait as long as you can and hope someone get desperate. Sakic and the Duchene trade springs to mind.

There's no exact value, but there's certainly a range of values.

Sakic got a 1st, a recent 1st, a 2nd, two recent 2nds, and a 3rd for two full seasons of Duchene. If you're comparing the deals, the difference is a recent 2nd round pick and a 3rd. f that's the one that springs to mind as someone getting so much better of a deal for their guy, you should think of another one. That haul looks awfully similar to the Rangers haul, accounting for the amount of time remaining on the contract and age.

You're making an assumption that 1.) there was another serious interested suitor that the Rangers turned down a better offer from for no reason and 2.) a suitor like that would've existed a year later.

 

[ETTER DE]

I an not comparing the return for Duchene versus McDonagh. That has no meaning. What I am referring to is the fact that Sakic did not take the first offers. He waited, and tried to maximize the return.

 

[ETTER DE]

There's no exact value, but there's certainly a range of values.

Sakic got a 1st, a recent 1st, a 2nd, two recent 2nds, and a 3rd for two full seasons of Duchene. If you're comparing the deals, the difference is a recent 2nd round pick and a 3rd. f that's the one that springs to mind as someone getting so much better of a deal for their guy, you should think of another one. That haul looks awfully similar to the Rangers haul, accounting for the amount of time remaining on the contract and age.

You're making an assumption that 1.) there was another serious interested suitor that the Rangers turned down a better offer from for no reason and 2.) a suitor like that would've existed a year later.

I am not assuming anything. As I wrote, i dont know if Rangers would have got a better return. It is you that makes an assumption that they would not have.

 

[Tawnos]

I an not comparing the return for Duchene versus McDonagh. That has no meaning. What I am referring to is the fact that Sakic did not take the first offers. He waited, and tried to maximize the return.

I understand that, what I'm saying is that... despite the waiting, he got basically market value in the trade. The only reason he even had to wait that long was because of the perceived locker room problems associated with Duchene. That kind of thing wasn't true with the Rangers and McDonagh, so they didn't have to hold out for market value.

 

[Tawnos]

I am not assuming anything. As I wrote, i dont know if Rangers would have got a better return. It is you that makes an assumption that they would not have.

So then what in the world is your actual point? That the Rangers should should've gambled, despite the low odds?

 

[ETTER DE]

So then what in the world is your actual point? That the Rangers should should've gambled, despite the low odds?

Again, for the last time: The return in the trade was so bad that there were no risk involved in waiting to see if there were better offers later.

 

[Tawnos]

Again, for the last time: The return in the trade was so bad that there were no risk involved in waiting to see if there were better offers later.

That's a bunch of crap. Let me ask you something. Which is the better deal:

Howden, Hajek, 1st, & 2nd
or
Hajek & 1st

Because that's what you risk by waiting to see if there were better offers later.

 

[aufheben]

I an not comparing the return for Duchene versus McDonagh. That has no meaning. What I am referring to is the fact that Sakic did not take the first offers. He waited, and tried to maximize the return.

Uh how much longer could the Rangers have waited?

 

[ETTER DE]

Uh how much longer could the Rangers have waited?

Well, he had a year more left on his contract. So the answer would be to the trade deadline the following year.

 

[ETTER DE]

That's a bunch of crap. Let me ask you something. Which is the better deal:

Howden, Hajek, 1st, & 2nd
or
Hajek & 1st

Because that's what you risk by waiting to see if there were better offers later.

Another assumption from you. How do you know what the return would be? This is BS. Sorry but it is.

 

[aufheben]

Well, he had a year more left on his contract. So the answer would be to the trade deadline the following year.

And that would increase his trade value?

 

[Tawnos]

Another assumption from you. How do you know what the return would be? This is BS. Sorry but it is.

Pot meet kettle. I didn’t say it would be. I said that’s the risk you’d be taking.

 

[aufheben]

People think it was bad because everyone spent literally months on here daydreaming about Sergachev.

To be perfectly honest I have barely thought about it since it happened.

And remember, we should have received an extra 1st too but the Lightning choked their hearts out.

 

[mrmovies779]

Another assumption from you. How do you know what the return would be? This is BS. Sorry but it is.

You are also assuming we would have gotten a better offer if we held him for another year. ***spoiler alert*** we wouldnt have

 

[Edge]

I think you’d be hard pressed to find the value going up with less term on the deal.

Part of the appeal for other teams, at the 2018 TDL, was that even if McD went elsewhere, they were potentially getting two playoff runs out of him. Essentially, they got two kicks at the can before McD would walk away for nothing.

Now obviously that point was later negated by TB signing McD to a new contract, but the value at the time of the trade remained.

The Rangers engaged in serious or semi-serious conversations with quite a few teams. It wasn’t that TB was the team that took their cherry.

 

[Tawnos]

I think you’d be hard pressed to find the value going up with less term on the deal.

Part of the appeal for other teams, at the 2018 TDL, was that even if McD went elsewhere, they were potentially getting two playoff runs out of him. Essentially, they got two kicks at the can before McD would walk away for nothing.

Now obviously that point was later negated by TB signing McD to a new contract, but the value at the time of the trade remained.

The Rangers engaged in serious or semi-serious conversations with quite a few teams. It wasn’t that TB was the team that took their cherry.

Yeah... I mean maybe, *maybe* you’d find and interesting trade partner at the draft in a team that missed the playoffs and is looking to take that next step... but that’s unlikely every year.

 

[bernmeister]

I think you’d be hard pressed to find the value going up with less term on the deal.

Part of the appeal for other teams, at the 2018 TDL, was that even if McD went elsewhere, they were potentially getting two playoff runs out of him. Essentially, they got two kicks at the can before McD would walk away for nothing.

Now obviously that point was later negated by TB signing McD to a new contract, but the value at the time of the trade remained.

The Rangers engaged in serious or semi-serious conversations with quite a few teams. It wasn’t that TB was the team that took their cherry.

Yeah, not sure but think Boston was one.

 

[ETTER DE]

And that would increase his trade value?

For cap strapped teams in their "window" the "two playoff runs" are a bonus. But then you are talking about very few teams and you know the 1st rounder likely would be a very late one. For other teams it will be better if a player has less than a year left. Then they can negotiate a new deal before the trade is finalized. And the 1st rounder coming back in the trade will likely be be better. Why would you limit yourself to trade only with just a couple of teams? What would a team like Buffalo be willing to pay if the captain of the New York Rangers was available? They had just drafted Dahlin. Would they think adding McDonagh to play on the top pairing in front of Dahlin would be a great idea? I dont know. Neither does you. Because Rangers had already traded him.

 

[ETTER DE]

You are also assuming we would have gotten a better offer if we held him for another year. ***spoiler alert*** we wouldnt have

If you had bothered to read what I have been writing you would see that I did not assume anything. But because the return in the trade did not bring back a real good piece I did not think it was that much of a risk. And I was willing to take it.

 

[ETTER DE]

Pot meet kettle. I didn’t say it would be. I said that’s the risk you’d be taking.

And I have been saying that this was a risk worth taking. Because the return in the trade was bad.

 

[ETTER DE]

I think you’d be hard pressed to find the value going up with less term on the deal.

Part of the appeal for other teams, at the 2018 TDL, was that even if McD went elsewhere, they were potentially getting two playoff runs out of him. Essentially, they got two kicks at the can before McD would walk away for nothing.

Now obviously that point was later negated by TB signing McD to a new contract, but the value at the time of the trade remained.

The Rangers engaged in serious or semi-serious conversations with quite a few teams. It wasn’t that TB was the team that took their cherry.

See my response to another poster a little further up.

 

[Tawnos]

And I have been saying that this was a risk worth taking. Because the return in the trade was bad.

So, because the return on the trade was bad, in your opinion, you’d be interested in waiting to see what came later even if the 98% most likely scenario is that it would be worse.

Strong logic right there. A+

 

[Mikos87]

You had a guy here whose name I'm having trouble tagging mention that he had a breakdown of the deal. Two deals, rolled into one when the Rangers decided to move on from JT Miller.

Names & 2nd (Henrikson) for Miller
Howden, Hajek, & 1st (Nils Lundvist) for McDonagh

That's pretty good reasonable value. You got two 1sts and a high 2nd, but both prospects are of good pro potential, even if the upside is a middle pair defenseman and a 3rd or 4th line forward. You were getting players who were developed and can play the game. Then there's Nils Lundqvist.

To me it's good value. I don't lament the deal, because you also got cap space to sign a guy like Artemi Panarin.

McDonagh: $6.8
Miller: $5.25

That's more than the Breadman's hit.

Oh and you got one NHLer, one that has played games, and another potential stud. All on ELCs already.

These things aren't vacuous in my mind.

 

[Anthony5967]

I mean, sure, you could've waited till the following year and then risked a big-time injury, regression, etc. They got back Howden, who was a solid prospect at the time and former 1st rounder, a d-man in Hajek who had the size and skating ability and broke out at the WJC, and picks, one of them being Lundkvist. TB traded Miller, McDonagh is locked in long-term on a killer deal, and the Lightning haven't done squat. Also, who was the other team interested? Toronto wanted him big time but didn't have exceptional prospects either. Liljegren? I'm just surprised the NYR didn't want Cal Foote if Sergachev wasn't coming back in the deal, especially when they added Miller to boot. I'm still not hating this trade. Everybody wants to analyze a deal within the second it's made. TB made that deal to win a Cup before all the contracts were up, they had two PO runs in Mac at a discount and are now paying him through the nose. Something has got to give over there.