McDonagh trade

[egelband]

As many of you have pointed out, right from the drop the Miller-Namestnikov portion of the trade was bad. I guess Gorton expected Namestnikov to be more of a complete player than he turned out to be

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

As a reminder, 8 months ago a good portion of this board, if not the majority, was penciling Hajek into a starting four role for the next half-decade.

Let’s see what happens and whether or not he gets back on track.

Lord knows there’s going to be some opportunity to make a case on the left side.

I still have pretty high hopes for Hajek. And while he might be playing in a lesser league, he’s younger than Rykov (who some people seem to be salivating over).

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

As many of you have pointed out, right from the drop the Miller-Namestnikov portion of the trade was bad. I guess Gorton expected Namestnikov to be more of a complete player than he turned out to be

I think Miller might have been viewed as an addition by subtraction move by the FO.

 

[egelband]

I think Miller might have been viewed as an addition by subtraction move by the FO.

Yes. When I think of Miller the first thing that comes to mind is him standing there slamming his stick against the boards as play continued. I think he had taken another bad lazy penalty. I really found him too be an awful baby. But still, they should have gotten more for him.

 

[True Blue]

Attention @True Blue. Please report to the Lias Andersson Thread. Thank you.

It's only funny because it' s true.

 

[NYSPORTS]

Lundkvist and it's just my opinion, is going to be a very, very, special player..

i hope so b/c Miller would fit in real nicely with this team. Watching him during the same scrimmages with Fox, their play is similar although physically (more filled out) you could tell Fox was/is two years older.

 

[Edge]

As many of you have pointed out, right from the drop the Miller-Namestnikov portion of the trade was bad. I guess Gorton expected Namestnikov to be more of a complete player than he turned out to be

I think the problem is that people view that as a separate deal. It's symbiotic with the rest of the deal. You don't have McD for Howden, Hajek, a first and a conditional pick if you don't have Miller-Namestnikov on the table as well. Likewise, you don't have Miller for Namestnikov as a deal without the other components.

 

[Edge]

I still have pretty high hopes for Hajek. And while he might be playing in a lesser league, he’s younger than Rykov (who some people seem to be salivating over).

We get fixated on prospects and when things are going well, we over-project, and when things hit speed bumps, we're ready to fire them out of a cannon.

There are a lot of variables still in play, regarding the the McD trade.

Does Howden find a niche and take the next steps in his third NHL season? Does he put it together and find chemistry on a potent third line?

Does Hajek get back on track and settle into a role as second pair defenseman?

Is Lundkvist the stud he is shaping up to be? Does he become a crucial part of our defense for the next decade?

Does Henriksson become a top six player for us?

If the answer is yes to all of those things, it's a clear win. If the answer is yes to some of those, its still a win. If one of those things happens, it can still be a win, though it'll be closer to a draw. If none of those things happen, it's a loss. But there's so many moving parts in all of this, we just don't know yet.

And that doesn't even take into account the follow-up moves that are connected to this deal, yet exist separately.

When we talk about McD, Hayes, Stepan, Zucc, etc. it's impossible to ignore that if you keep those players, we're not discussing Panarin, or Kreider, or Trouba, or ADA.

 

[Boris Zubov]

We get fixated on prospects and when things are going well, we over-project, and when things hit speed bumps, we're ready to fire them out of a cannon.

There are a lot of variables still in play, regarding the the McD trade.

Does Howden find a niche and take the next steps in his third NHL season? Does he put it together and find chemistry on a potent third line?

Does Hajek get back on track and settle into a role as second pair defenseman?

Is Lundkvist the stud he is shaping up to be? Does he become a crucial part of our defense for the next decade?

Does Henriksson become a top six player for us?

If the answer is yes to all of those things, it's a clear win. If the answer is yes to some of those, its still a win. If one of those things happens, it can still be a win, though it'll be closer to a draw. If none of those things happen, it's a loss. But there's so many moving parts in all of this, we just don't know yet.

And that doesn't even take into account the follow-up moves that are connected to this deal, yet exist separately.

When we talk about McD, Hayes, Stepan, Zucc, etc. it's impossible to ignore that if you keep those players, we're not discussing Panarin, or Kreider, or Trouba, or ADA.

Is anyone really talking about keeping McDonagh(or any of those other players)? Because the issue is we got pennies on the dollar for him, not that we miss him wearing a Rangers sweater. Adding Miller was just insult to injury.

There's too many what-ifs, & the more time that passes the worse this trade looks in hindsight. (It didn't look good on Day 1 either).

 

[Don Chytil]

I can't imagine Tampa is very happy with the trade either, though. McD was not good when they were getting swept in the playoffs last year, and he wasn't great this season either, while also struggling with more injuries. They are set to pay him over $40m over the next 6 years with a NTC. If they could trade him now, they'd probably be ecstatic if he brought back a prospect of Lundkivst's caliber.

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

We get fixated on prospects and when things are going well, we over-project, and when things hit speed bumps, we're ready to fire them out of a cannon.

There are a lot of variables still in play, regarding the the McD trade.

Does Howden find a niche and take the next steps in his third NHL season? Does he put it together and find chemistry on a potent third line? Probably not

Does Hajek get back on track and settle into a role as second pair defenseman? NO

Is Lundkvist the stud he is shaping up to be? Does he become a crucial part of our defense for the next decade? Maybe

Does Henriksson become a top six player for us? NO

If the answer is yes to all of those things, it's a clear win. If the answer is yes to some of those, its still a win. If one of those things happens, it can still be a win, though it'll be closer to a draw. If none of those things happen, it's a loss. But there's so many moving parts in all of this, we just don't know yet.

And that doesn't even take into account the follow-up moves that are connected to this deal, yet exist separately.

When we talk about McD, Hayes, Stepan, Zucc, etc. it's impossible to ignore that if you keep those players, we're not discussing Panarin, or Kreider, or Trouba, or ADA.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

WeNeverGetAGoodPrediction

 

[usekakkorightquinn]

It is obvious that Miller would have never amounted to much here. NY had to many distractions for him as did Tampa. His work ethic stunk. His effort half his games stunk. He was an atrocious playoff player. Going to some city where people pretty much only care about hockey was the only thing that could make him reach his potential. Howden basically has to become a 35 point, 55% guy on draws. If he can do that and become a good PK guy as well he will be a good addition to this team. This deal looks like a homerun. Lundkvist is going to be the best player in this deal down the line. People can't see it right now but he's that good. I remember reading that when his team clinched he decided that he would score some goals down the stretch. I think he had 6 in 8 or 10 games to finish the season. Seriously, who does that against men on defense as a 19 year old in a really good league? Kid broke records and he is totally disrespected by hockey ranking services because he's a Ranger which is nothing new. I remember they had Fox rated 37th overall as a prospect. Like there are 10 bettter rookies in the league than Fox this year. Laughable.

 

[ETTER DE]

I see people try to move the goal post here. It was a bad trade. Because Rangers were rebuilding and McDonagh was the most valuable of the older players. And he did not bring back a substantial peace. The trade was not for Henriksson or Lundkvist. It was McDonagh and Miller for a 1st, a condtional 2nd, Hajek, Howden and Namestnikov. Nothing more and nothing less. If the trade was for a 7th rounder and we drafted Henrik Lundquist, would people say it was good trade? Would you Edge say we should wait and see what Henrik Lundquist does before we valuate the trade?

 

[NYSPORTS]

I can't imagine Tampa is very happy with the trade either, though. McD was not good when they were getting swept in the playoffs last year, and he wasn't great this season either, while also struggling with more injuries. They are set to pay him over $40m over the next 6 years with a NTC. If they could trade him now, they'd probably be ecstatic if he brought back a prospect of Lundkivst's caliber.

but they kept their top prospect. They got a Captain south of 30 years of age and a former 1st Round pick entering his prime and then flipped him for a conditional 1st, a 3rd and a Goalie.

 

[JT Kreider]

I think Miller might have been viewed as an addition by subtraction move by the FO.

That was all on AV

 

[JT Kreider]

Trade felt rushed. That's the main thing. We settled for quantity over quality.

He should have been traded the second the buzzer sounded on the Game 6 loss against Ottawa right alongside Stepan. Gorton got boxed in with Tampa being pretty much the only suitor for McDonagh at the 2018 deadline.

It is a bad look for Gorton that he didnt start the rebuild right then and there during the 2017 offseason instead of signing Shattenkirk, keeping AV and giving the core one more kick at the can. It was obvious the jig was up. Which makes me laugh that Zucc had anything bad to say about how he was treated here.

Man that week was such a clusterf***. We were all begging for AV to be fired, then the Stepan to Arizona trade was leaked prior to the expansion draft freeze and we were all convinced we were getting Strome and/or Keller, then we didnt, then we reached on Andersson, then we were all like WTF is Chytil, then we signed Shattenkirk while we were all begging for a rebuild. I was hoping for McDonagh to be traded to Ottawa for White and their 1st.

Speculation: - Roster Building Thread Part XI: We can read between the lines

Speculation: - Roster Building Thread Part XI: We can read between the lines

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I see people try to move the goal post here. It was a bad trade. Because Rangers were rebuilding and McDonagh was the most valuable of the older players. And he did not bring back a substantial peace. The trade was not for Henriksson or Lundkvist. It was McDonagh and Miller for a 1st, a condtional 2nd, Hajek, Howden and Namestnikov. Nothing more and nothing less. If the trade was for a 7th rounder and we drafted Henrik Lundquist, would people say it was good trade? Would you Edge say we should wait and see what Henrik Lundquist does before we valuate the trade?

If you don't look at the players taken with those picks, than you cant use hindsight to judge Howden or Hajek either.

This trade was a 1st, conditional 2nd, 2 top 5 prospects and Namesnikov for McDonagh and Miller. I don't think you'll find too many people here who think that the Miller should have been moved as part of this deal (No issue with trading him, but they should have moved him in a separate deal.)

This was the right time to move McDonagh though. Karlsson was headed onto the trade market that summer so it was wise to move McDonagh before that market had a chance to develop. He logged an absurd amount of minutes with the Rangers, was injured when they traded him (for like the 6th time in his NYR tenure) and I can't imagine that the market for him would have been any better in the summer (where he would have been going into the last year on his contract.) The return may end up being a loss, but its too early to call that.

Plus, selling off at that time allowed them to get to where they are now. This is a better team right now than it was when McDonagh was traded. Sometimes that in and of itself is the real win in these situations.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

If anyone has watched any amount of Canucks games you'd see Miller still makes a lot of bonehead plays. He still put up a lot of points but if he gets taken away from Peterson you would have the same player we had. I'd still like to have him but not at his salary at this point in our build. We absolutely made the right move trading Mcdonagh, obviously we need Howden and Hajek to be better to make the trade pan out but losing those two players salaries essentially paid for Panarin and we got Lindqvist as well.

 

[aufheben]

That was all on AV

How so?

 

[egelband]

I think the problem is that people view that as a separate deal. It's symbiotic with the rest of the deal. You don't have McD for Howden, Hajek, a first and a conditional pick if you don't have Miller-Namestnikov on the table as well. Likewise, you don't have Miller for Namestnikov as a deal without the other components.

Didn't Yzerman say that Gorton asked to tack that onto the deal after the original deal was agreed? I thought that was a known thing. Maybe I'm mis-remembering.

E: dug around and it appears that indeed Miller was a requirement from TB. So, Miller and McDonagh for the two picks and Hajek and Howden. And Gorton asked for Namestnikov as ballast. I stand corrected.

 

[JT Kreider]

How so?

JT Miller on his relationship with Vigneault and how it was with the Rangers at the end

 

[n8]

This is why you have to wait years to evaluate deals. In that deal we received Howden and Hajek. Ending up using the first rounder on Lundkvist. The second rounder on Henriksson. Miller was basically traded away for nothing by Tampa to the Canucks and now they look ridiculous for it because Miller broke out finally. I think Howden is about ready to take a step up in his game. I still believe Hajek is going to be a solid NHL defenseman but I would not be surprised if he's used in a deal to make our team stronger. Lundkvist has a chance to be a star. I liked McDonagh a lot but I felt he started looking like one of those players that was getting old, fast. Miller just wasn't a NY guy. It seems Miller needed to go to a place without distractions where they care about hockey more than anything else.

LOL, I thought you were gonna mention Scott Gomez. We STILL don't know how to evaluate this trade. Howden and Hajek could play themselves into oblivion. We all love Lundkvist but he and Henriksson still have not played a single game yet so [knock on wood] crazy shit can still happen.

 

[Thirty One]

The McDonagh trade was awful. Gomez was their best C and Tom Pyatt was the future captain.

 

[ETTER DE]

If you don't look at the players taken with those picks, than you cant use hindsight to judge Howden or Hajek either.

This trade was a 1st, conditional 2nd, 2 top 5 prospects and Namesnikov for McDonagh and Miller. I don't think you'll find too many people here who think that the Miller should have been moved as part of this deal (No issue with trading him, but they should have moved him in a separate deal.)

This was the right time to move McDonagh though. Karlsson was headed onto the trade market that summer so it was wise to move McDonagh before that market had a chance to develop. He logged an absurd amount of minutes with the Rangers, was injured when they traded him (for like the 6th time in his NYR tenure) and I can't imagine that the market for him would have been any better in the summer (where he would have been going into the last year on his contract.) The return may end up being a loss, but its too early to call that.

Plus, selling off at that time allowed them to get to where they are now. This is a better team right now than it was when McDonagh was traded. Sometimes that in and of itself is the real win in these situations.

But it is not a better team because of the trade. And that is what we are talking about. I am not saying that McDonagh should have been resigned. I am saying he was traded for nothing significant. And thats why they should have waited. And Karlsson and McDonagh are two different players. One a good defensive LD, the other one an elite offensive RD. They would not have compteted with each other on the the trade market. (And the biggest contributor to Rangers progress so far is Panarin. A player if I remember correctly half the forum did not want, including you.)