McDonagh trade

[JT Kreider]

The trade sucked but the true value was not having to give McDonagh the contract he got. Not to mention we probably would have had to give him at least $1 million more on his AAV.

He should have been traded at the end of the 2017 season along with Stepan. That whole offseason was a clusterf***, signing Shattenkirk just a few days later when it was obvious the jig was up and a rebuild was imminent.

Maybe the rest of the league caught up to the fact McDonagh was just living hard off his reputation he earned from his 2012-14 peak and hadn't been the same player since and we vastly overrated the return we were due.

Whatever, we made up for it with the Zib, DeAngelo, Nash(Lindgren, KA Miller and Spooner-> Strome) and Fox trades. I'll take the L on McDonagh for how big of a dub we took on those.

It really seemed like we had the next McD in Skjei, what a shame he fell off from his rookie year and that 2017 postseason, he was thought to be in the same tier as the next great young defenseman like Lindholm, Hanifin, Provorov, Chabot, McAvoy, etc.

As for JT Miller, well it seemed like AV won out on that one as it was reported he was uncoachable or whatever it was. Scary to think AV was still being factored into future personnel decisions as late as the 2018 deadline and then fired two months later. It was obvious to anyone that Namest was just riding Stamkos and Kuch's coattails to a huge point inflation. I'm not sure what Gorton was thinking if it's true that was a separate trade put into one.

I think Miller reacted his ceiling of what he was going to be in NY, even if we always knew he was capable of so much more. It took him getting traded twice for him to realize that too.

 

[ColonialsHockey10]

As others have said, I still think Hajek can become something. He looked good in his first call up last season. All the tools are very apparent.

I’ve written off Howden until he loses the soul patch.

 

[True Blue]

Well at least we are not beating a dead horse debate anymore

 

[JT Kreider]

I don't judge or project kids, especially well-regarded ones, too quickly, not until after their ELC, or even during/after their 2d contract.
While it may be more common now, that SOME 19, 20, 21 years olds establish their pro bonafides early, not all do.
So I am slower to project the ceilings for Howden and Hajek.

I loved McD, but IMHO his development as NHL ~top 10 D was undermined by giving him the C immediately after his first dominant season. That's one reason I will hope they don't give Zib the C.

To me this trade is not proven terrible yet, more time is needed to see how the kids develop .... or what assets they turn into.
Regardless, our vet heavy team of that time was becoming hamstrung by Cap considerations, something had to give...

That C has been a curse to whoever has worn it since Mess left the first time around, change my mind.

Leetch sucked the 3 years he had it and that was the beginning of the dark ages, Mess was a shell of himself after Vancouver, Jagr was gone after two years, Drury had one good season and then his knees fell off, Callahan was dope in 2012 but was never able to live up to that again, McDonagh sucked from the second he got it and then nearly killed Zucc and barely played in Game 7 against Tampa.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

Or is it poor scouting?

This is a group that coveted Emerson Etem. A 10 year old could watch him play and realize his skills wouldn’t translate to the show.

They’ve of course nailed it a few times. Mika comes to mind. Plenty of brutal misses as well though.

Well I didn't want to call that out specifically but yeah

Our old scouts couldn't make a good pick out of the CHL to save their life

 

[eco's bones]

It’s not as fun a conversation to have but the fact is it’s still too early to know what to make of this. Howden and Hajek don’t look good but they’re not nearly in the territory where you can expect them not to improve anymore. Lundkvist looks like the biggest piece potentially and hes totally unknown at this level.

One thing I’m sure of already is that I’m glad we don’t have that McD contract.

McDonagh is less than a week away from his 31st birthday and he's got 6 years left at $6.75 mil--pretty much the contract that Kreider got at a younger age. McDonagh's not injured all the time but he's had several fairly significant ones. I would expect that he'll have declined towards the end of that and it seems to me that Tampa seems to already be limiting him to a defensive role. 50 games played in 19-20 and he had one goal and 12 points. Ryan's at best their third most valuable D and maybe the fourth after Hedman, Sergachev and maybe Cernak. Hedman, Sergachev and Shattenkirk are bringing the offense more.

Tampa's also in this win now situation. They don't have very many players under 25 on their roster--Point, Cirelli, Verhaeghe, Sergachev and Cernak--most of their players are at the peak points of their career with a handful heading out of their peaks. Their farm system is fairly decent but there's no real future stud there--just potential good 2nd and 3rd line players and 2-5 defensemen.

Moving on from McDonagh was a serious step to take. If you're going to do something and be serious about doing it you don't do the something in half measures. McDonagh and Nash were serious steps taken to put the team on notice that the Rangers were going to change the path they were on--and they followed it up with Hayes, Zuccarello etc. The path we've been on is clear. There was a question about Kreider this year. I'm glad we hung on to him but part of why that happened is the quick turn around with all the new faces we've made and that Kreider has been accepting of the new path and welcoming to the new players our team has. FWIW I have the idea that Staal's been the same.

So in retrospect for the Rangers to get to where they are today McDonagh and Nash and Zuccarello had to leave whether or not they got great value for these players or not. We couldn't keep this group that got close once but never closed. It's the same IMO with Henrik--Hall of Fame goaltender no question but he's not going to be the goalie that wins a Cup for us and Shesterkin just might be. Really the Rangers team now is set up for the next several years better than maybe every other team in the league with the possible exception of Colorado. I don't think that happens if we'd hung on to McD.

 

[aufheben]

The value of a trade at the time it happens and how the trade turns out are two different things. I don’t see any reason why you can’t judge a trade immediately.

Frankly I forgot about McDonagh and Miller as soon as they were gone.

That said, McDonagh hasn’t done shit in Tampa. He had another injury this year and scored 12 f***ing points. Y’all really wanna deal with that shit?

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

I still have hope for Hajek. The very small sample we saw of before he got injured, really impressed me.

 

[lemonybergamot]

I miss Miller a lot more than McDonagh. He never should've been captain, but he was the right captain for a country club team.

It was a bad trade, and trading Miller for Namestiknov was even worse.

 

[JT Kreider]

The value of a trade at the time it happens and how the trade turns out are two different things. I don’t see any reason why you can’t judge a trade immediately.

Frankly I forgot about McDonagh and Miller as soon as they were gone.

That said, McDonagh hasn’t done shit in Tampa. He had another injury this year and scored 12 f***ing points. Y’all really wanna deal with that shit?

And he was on the ice for nearly every goal CBJ scored in last years sweep. He only had some Norris votes because his offensive production got a pop when Hedman was hurt. He had 3 separate 3 point games.

 

[Edge]

The value of the trade at the time remains market appropriate.

The value of the trade over the long-haul remains TBD.

They have, and always will fall into two separate conversations.

The risk was, is, and will always remain high when trading established talent for prospects/picks.

Unless the player is 25 and younger, under team control in one capacity or another, and performing at an incredibly productive rate (or viewed as being capable of producing at an incredible rate), you really don't get "wowed" by offers.

The biggest challenge that we have is that we think some of our top guys, in their late 20s, with expiring contracts and/or declining production, are worth young blue-chippers. And once we get that idea in our heads, it's near impossible to get it out.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

Two things I thought were interesting about the trade (and still do) is that

A) Executives came out after the trade saying the price Gorton accepted was less than the cost they were told when trying to acquire just McDonagh (not both players)

B) McDonagh's agent publicly admitted after the trade in an Athletic article that about an hour before the deadline, he texted Gorton and told him "Ryan doesn't want to be traded, but at this point we need to get a deal done". Which signaled to me that McDonagh was tired of the back and forth and it got to the point where he just wanted the trade done.

I wonder how much McD's agent telling Gorton to find a trade an hour beforehand played into things, because the trade did come down to the wire.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

The value of a trade at the time it happens and how the trade turns out are two different things. I don’t see any reason why you can’t judge a trade immediately.

Frankly I forgot about McDonagh and Miller as soon as they were gone.

That said, McDonagh hasn’t done shit in Tampa. He had another injury this year and scored 12 f***ing points. Y’all really wanna deal with that shit?

McDonagh played at an elite level last season. His offense fell off this season though but he was used exclusively as a shut down guy thanks to Hedman and Sergachev.

 

[Edge]

McDonagh played at an elite level last season. His offense fell off this season though but he was used exclusively as a shut down guy thanks to Hedman and Sergachev.

I think McD played an elite level for about 3 months, on a stacked team, and then, like a car with a lot of mileage, shit started to fall apart again and his effectiveness steadily diminished. And, once again, by the time his team got to the playoffs, he was banged up.

 

[Chytilmania]

Do we sign Panarin if we have McDonagh on the books?

 

[Crease]

Well at least we are not beating a dead horse debate anymore

Attention @True Blue. Please report to the Lias Andersson Thread. Thank you.

 

[aufheben]

McDonagh played at an elite level last season. His offense fell off this season though but he was used exclusively as a shut down guy thanks to Hedman and Sergachev.

Maybe he was during the regular season.

 

[usekakkorightquinn]

Lundkvist and it's just my opinion, is going to be a very, very, special player. Things he's doing in his league at his position you don't see very often. I never expect people rating NYR prospects to be objective. Lundkvist should have been in the top 10 easy this year. It's not even debatable.

 

[Igor Shestyorkin]

Not sure how anyone can look at this one and say it’s worked out thus far haha

Howden stinks, Hajek stinks

Lundkvist and Henriksson are unknowns still.

And they dumped Namestnikov for cap space

If Lundkvist is any good this trade goes from bad to just okay

I don’t see the optimism with Howden or Hajek tbh. Howden has been nothing short of atrocious in his first two NHL seasons and Hajek can hardly find his footing in the AHL.

 

[LiveLongandProspal]

Trade felt rushed. That's the main thing. We settled for quantity over quality.

 

[EdJovanovski]

I would think Vancouver would have its fair share of distractions. Just saying. It's a major metropolitan city with a huge variety of outdoor activities in one of the most beautiful settings in North America. If I were to choose a place in Canada to play it would be there. I never liked the Miller for Namestnikov throw in side of that deal. Miller always had more upside than Vlad. Speaking of whom to finish out the above we have a 4th rounder in the upcoming draft from Ottawa. Changes of scenery can be funny--sometime the new guys really takes off, sometimes it's more what you expect and sometimes it doesn't work out at all. Tampa got more of the same Miller--Vancouver put him with Pettersson and now he looks like a whole different player---is it maturity happening too? It could be. It could be the welcome wagon--it could be he's embraced his new city or the new city has embraced him or a combination of things.

Howden's bottom 6 material. Teams need good bottom 6 players though and he has the chance to be a good one IMO. Making the jump to the NHL straight out of junior is not an easy thing to do and it comes with growing pains. Eventually he'll get stronger, smarter and better or at least he should. We should hopefully be seeing a better (maybe much better) player in the next season or two. Sooner or later though I think he moves on to another team.

I expected more out of Hajek. He was a very very good two way defensemen in the WHL and WJC tournaments. That two way game so far has not followed him into the pros. It's somewhat mystifying to me. He has size and is a very good skater with very good puck moving skills. It's not registered really at all. Very offense to his game at either the AHL or NHL level and he seemed shy physically when he was up with the Rangers this year. He should become a very good NHL defenseman for 10-12 years but so far he's not shown it and I'm kind of thinking if things don't turn around for him fast we're going to move on from him before his ELC is up.

Nils Lundkvist busted out in the SHL this year as a 19 year old. I think he's going to be an absolute stud. He's smaller but the foundation of his game is he's always been good defensively. To put up the points he did in a league as good as the SHL as a teenager is very, very impressive. I think he's in Adam Fox territory anyway. At the end of the year he was popping in a goal every night from the top of the circle like he was Alex Ovechkin. The other team knew it was coming but it was going in the net anyway. His shot has really improved in the last couple years.

Henriksson is intriguing. I believe he'll be in the SHL full on this coming year. This is a big chance for him to show what he can do.

But Vancouver is grey & rainy almost all year round so you very seldom enjoy that beauty, it also has nothing in terms of entertainment, shopping, events, concerts, etc that they have in major American cities. What outdoors distractions? He’s going to go hiking , go fishing, & jog in our beautiful terrain? Lol I think there’s a lot more trouble for young millionaires to get into in NYC than Vancouver

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

Trade initially was good or at least fair but ended up just OK as Namestnikov flopped got re-signed for too much and ended up traded for just a 4th rounder. Hajek and Howden struggled so far, haven't been as good as they were expected. (You can also argue that because of Howden Lias Andersson suffered and lost value.) Tampa failed to win the Cup so we ended up with a late 2nd rounder instead of late 1st rounder and we picked unimpressive Henriksson. JT Miller has developed into a top line player but for another team because on Tampa he was a disappointment. Lundkvist seems to be one of our top prospects, but too early to say how good he will be in NHL without ever playing in NHL or AHL. McDonagh seems to be declining as most thought. best player in the trade was Miller.

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

Trade felt rushed. That's the main thing. We settled for quantity over quality.

Tampa did a good sell job on Namestnikov, Hajek, and Howden

 

[Edge]

As a reminder, 8 months ago a good portion of this board, if not the majority, was penciling Hajek into a starting four role for the next half-decade.

Let’s see what happens and whether or not he gets back on track.

Lord knows there’s going to be some opportunity to make a case on the left side.

 

[usekakkorightquinn]

I don’t see the optimism with Howden or Hajek tbh. Howden has been nothing short of atrocious in his first two NHL seasons and Hajek can hardly find his footing in the AHL.

Howden has not been atrocious. That's nonsense. I didn't agree with him starting over Lias this year after the camp Lias had. However, he seemed to be figuring things out his last 10 games. He's also been playing with other young players who haven't matured yet either. It's not like he's playing with vets all the time. Howden wasn't given AHL time. I stated many times he would have benefitted from some AHL time. He's only 22. Most two way players usually take until 24-25 to break out with some of their offensive games at the NHL level. Callahan's first full season I believe was at either 22 or 23. He wasn't even in the NHL. Dubinsky's was at 21. Both those guys had a team with little depth so they had plenty of icetime opportunity. On this team, there is one spot open on the top 2 lines which our coach stupidly keeps putting Fast in. Howden is not taking that spot from Kakko down the line. Not even Chytil. So, most he can hope for is 3rd line minutes.