McDavid and Matthews have to wait to overtake Crosby

[illpucks]

The amount of Crow that would happen if the Oilers beat the Pens in the finals.

 

[gretskidoo]

16 more goals and 13 more points for Matthews in his rookie year.

Eichel wasn't even top 20 in even strength goals in his rookie year, Matthews was 1st in the NHL.

42% of Eichel's goals this year were on the powerplay.

Good for Eichel that he's good on the PP.

 

[wej20]

McDavid certainly has work to do in order to round out his game, that's fair. But he is also facing checking that not even Crosby has had to put up with. The shadowing from Kesler was straight out of the 80's, yet it worked in the Oilers' favor as it just created so much space for everyone else. At the end of the day the Oilers scored 4 goals with McDavid on the ice.

We've also not seen his best yet in these playoffs. Tight checking doesn't account for why the most explosive player in the league suddenly looks slow. I watched him play 82 games this year and shadow or not, he is clearly not himself at the moment.

Let me tell you a story about two guys by the name of Zetterberg and Lidstrom.

 

[xxreact9]

Can we settle down with this talk already? Top 3 or 4 all time? Not even close.

You're ironically correct.

Crosby is the #1 best player of all time, because the current best player will always be the best player of all time due to natural genetic, technological and nutritional advancements over time.

If you want to say "best for his time" that's a different story, and an honestly irrelevant thing to debate because time periods have had such drastically different relative parity in the league.

The only one worth discussing is the best player ever, which is Sidney Crosby right now. Soon it will be McDavid, soon it will be another kid who grew up with more tools available and is simply better than anyone before him.

It's natural progression, there is no need to be stuck in the past.

 

[The Big Unit]

His legacy is what he has accomplished, not what could have been. Unlucky injuries do not take away from his clearly superior on-ice performances.

Yes they do. If Crosby had another 2 Art Ross trophies and another 2 Hart Trophies you don't think that bolsters his legacy?

 

[The Big Unit]

I give OV full credit in 2014/15 for playing a responsible 2-way game and removing that dynamic from a comparison with Crosby who had developed that part of his game much earlier on.

Other than the Dale Hunter timeframe, he has been the primary weapon for the Caps offense. His numbers since 2010 speak for themselves which puts him somewhere in the group of forwards behind Crosby, the clear #1.

A close debate is their 1st five years. If OV had won the Cup last year with a very good performance then that would have excused a somewhat mediocre regular season (by his standards) and career value would have been close again. But instead it was Crosby who followed up another elite regular season with another elite SCF run, and has maintained his status as best in the world since then.

If you read my previous posts you'll see what I'm saying is yes Crosby is the best but the gap isn't huge like Crosby's fans think it is. Since 2010 Ovechkin has won 4 Rocket Richard's and a Lindsay and a Hart. These major awards count in the debate.

Since 2010 Crosby has won 1 Hart, 1 Art Ross, 2 Lindsay's, 1 Conn Smythe, and 1 Rocket Richard. His production has remained elite unlike OV who's goal scoring remains elite. But both have won 6 major awards during that period. IMO the gap isn't huge.

 

[Fordy]

Let me tell you a story about two guys by the name of Zetterberg and Lidstrom.

i thought canadian fans knew hockey? what a ridiculous statement that guy made, and apparently completely seriously? to say that sidney crosby has never had to deal with the intense defending on the level of THE ryan kesler

 

[12345678910]

You're ironically correct.

Crosby is the #1 best player of all time, because the current best player will always be the best player of all time due to natural genetic, technological and nutritional advancements over time.

If you want to say "best for his time" that's a different story, and an honestly irrelevant thing to debate because time periods have had such drastically different relative parity in the league.

The only one worth discussing is the best player ever, which is Sidney Crosby right now. Soon it will be McDavid, soon it will be another kid who grew up with more tools available and is simply better than anyone before him.

It's natural progression, there is no need to be stuck in the past.

Mario came back all old, washed up and had the highest PPG of anyone a couple years before Sid. Give me a break.

 

[daver]

Let me tell you a story about two guys by the name of Zetterberg and Lidstrom.

How did I miss that? The narrative around McDavid is getting out of hand.

 

[Gavy]

Crosby was not as good as McDavid at the same age. I say that with the upmost confidence. Albiet it was close.

Give McDavid a couple years and we will see. But Crosby is imo currently a better overall player than McDavid.

McDavid is generational Mathews is not. Great player that Mathews is he has never been considered generational by non bias hockey pundits. Having said that The future is murky for mortals and who knows mathews may end up better than both McDavid and Crosby.

You're wrong on pretty much everything.

Also, Trotz is pretty unbiased and he said Matthews is generational.

Sorry, bud.

 

[Disappointed EP40]

Title should be changed and take out Matthews.

He's not in the same level of Crosby, or McDavid for that matter.

 

[hockeyes]

Title should be changed and take out Matthews.

He's not in the same level of Crosby, or McDavid for that matter.

Yea, after a strong showing in the first round he's completely fallen off the map in the second round, maybe the rookie wall finally got him.

 

[A1LeafNation]

Lock er up. Matthews has nothing to do with the playoffs anymore.

Funny only one of the three took his team to the playoffs in his rookie year.

 

[Semantics]

Crosby is easily at least #5 all time, it is hilarious that people in these threads are putting him on the same level as Yzerman, Sakic, and other non-generational talents.
Crosby is so obviously generational, I have to assume anyone making such claims has been following the sport for fewer than 10 years.

 

[Disappointed EP40]

You're wrong on pretty much everything.

Also, Trotz is pretty unbiased and he said Matthews is generational.

Sorry, bud.

A hockey guy overly hyping up a young player? Never!

Matthews is a good player. He's not like McDavid, or Crosby.

 

[NoMessi]

Crosby is easily at least #5 all time, it is hilarious that people in these threads are putting him on the same level as Yzerman, Sakic, and other non-generational talents.
Crosby is so obviously generational, I have to assume anyone making such claims has been following the sport for fewer than 10 years.

That insinuates that he has a case for number 4, which is HILARIOUS. The top 4 is Gretzky, Orr, Howe and Lemieux, with many different opinions about the order of them. Lemieux is most often ranked as number 4 (although I don't agree, I have him at number 1 or 2). Can you PLEASE give me a reason to why Crosby should be higher than Lemieux?

What? It seems like the exact opposite. Its the people who are new to the game or just casual fans who claim Crosby to be top 5 (and some even have him higher ). I believe Crosby to be inside top 20, maybe even higher but not far ahead of Ovechkin and Malkin.

 

[Dying Alive]

Let me tell you a story about two guys by the name of Zetterberg and Lidstrom.

Yeah, really. Whether you think McDavid is better than Crosby or not gtfo of here with the idea that McD has somehow had to endure checking the likes of which Crosby has never seen. Talk about hyperbole.

 

[Son Goku]

That insinuates that he has a case for number 4, which is HILARIOUS. The top 4 is Gretzky, Orr, Howe and Lemieux, with many different opinions about the order of them. Lemieux is most often ranked as number 4 (although I don't agree, I have him at number 1 or 2). Can you PLEASE give me a reason to why Crosby should be higher than Lemieux?

What? It seems like the exact opposite. Its the people who are new to the game or just casual fans who claim Crosby to be top 5 (and some even have him higher ). I believe Crosby to be inside top 20, maybe even higher but not far ahead of Ovechkin and Malkin.

Who has ever claimed Crosby>Lemieux? The big four are clearly separated. #5 is obtainable

 

[bambamcam4ever]

This is false. McDavid only blows the zone when he recognizes his team is gaining possession and realizes a safe opportunity for a breakaway.

No doubt McDavid isn't as strong in board battles or boxing players out, but his stick work is exceptional, and his speed and explosiveness allows him to make numerous defensive plays that Crosby never could, just like Crosby's strength allows him to make ones that at this point McDavid can't. Doesn't really bother me. McDavid will get bigger and stronger and become much stronger in those areas to go along with his elite skating and superior range he can cover being faster, taller, with a larger wingspan.

Hate to burst your bubble, but:

 

[Pick87your71Poison]

Who has ever claimed Crosby>Lemieux? The big four are clearly separated. #5 is obtainable

What the hell? Did I miss something? Is 5<4 now? How does arguing someone should be ranked #5 make them better than #4.

This site can make even the simplest of kindergarten logic go out the window. So when someone ranks Crosby at #5, it means they are saying he's better than the top 4. But when another player is ranked at #5 instead (someone has to be) that's ok because no one is saying they are better than the top 4. Maybe we should just not rank anyone between #5-9 and just start from 10 so that the no one gets confused that 5th is a lower ranking than 4th.

Makes sense...

 

[Semantics]

That insinuates that he has a case for number 4, which is HILARIOUS. The top 4 is Gretzky, Orr, Howe and Lemieux, with many different opinions about the order of them. Lemieux is most often ranked as number 4 (although I don't agree, I have him at number 1 or 2). Can you PLEASE give me a reason to why Crosby should be higher than Lemieux?

1. I did not say Crosby had a case for number four. That's why I said at least TOP FIVE. Reading comprehension?
2. Lemieux is not #4. He's easily top 3, with Gretzky/Lemieux/Orr all being incredibly close.

Casual fan, look who's talking, I've been watching since Gretzky was in his prime, I may not have seen much of Howe and Orr, but I've watched the entire careers of the others. Crosby is a hell of a lot closer to Lemieux or Gretzky than to Yzerman ROFL.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

Crosby is easily at least #5 all time, it is hilarious that people in these threads are putting him on the same level as Yzerman, Sakic, and other non-generational talents.
Crosby is so obviously generational, I have to assume anyone making such claims has been following the sport for fewer than 10 years.

It will always happen because of numbers. Put Crosby in the same era Lemieux and Gretz played in and he's right there with them. But hockey is the one sport where records will never be broken. And apparently the only sport where players "can't " get better than the ones who already played.

 

[shakermaker]

Too many Leaf haters not giving enough credit to AM the teenager potting 40 goals in the NHL like it's no big deal and it's easy to do.

 

[Son Goku]

Too many Leaf haters not giving enough credit to AM the teenager potting 40 goals in the NHL like it's no big deal and it's easy to do.

Nobody is hating the leafs he's just not as good.

 

[Frosty415]

With that goal tonight it's official.

McJesus > all