McDavid and Matthews have to wait to overtake Crosby

[Divine]

Why is Matthews in the title
?

Oh how I can't wait till eichel outscores Matthews again this time in a full season to once again have a higher PPG.

You better hope he does. With Bylsma fired, if the younger Matthews outscores Eichel in his contract year, Sabres fans are out of excuses.

 

[shakermaker]

My 5th all-time guy is Bobby Hull, I like goal-scorers and do not weigh playoffs heavily.

You look at stats way too much. You really have proven you do not watch the games, and if you do, your attention to the game is weak.

You should weigh playoffs heavily, that's like saying "oh man I did so good all year on my assignments and tests, but I failed the final exam" and expecting to still get an A.

 

[The Big Unit]

A Hart trophy in a season where Crosby was a shoe-in for the award but ended up missing a quarter of the season, and even then Ovechkin getting the Hart was questionable.

The Pearson he won in 09-10 was in large part due to his play from before the Olympics. 43 goals and 89 points in 53 games before the Olympics. 8 goals and 20 points in 19 games after the Olympics.

And you can split the career in half from that point on. 509 points in 378 games for a PPG of 1.35 before. 526 points in 543 games for a PPG of 0.97 after. The decrease was monumental.

Of course, he still racked up a lot of goals over that time period, but the decline in his game was obvious. Find me one Caps fan that thinks Ovechkin is as good a player now as in he was in his peak.

Crosby missed a lot of time due to injury and it's a knock on his legacy. It's reasonable to assume Crosby's trophy case would dwarf Ovechkin's if he remained healthy but he didn't so it becomes a what if. It's unfair and unfortunate but it's the reality. Same thing happened to McDavid. His injury led to Panarin winning the Calder.

As for the drop off in production for Ovechkin; this is simply my opinion and if I see evidence to the contrary I'm happy to concede the point but I think it's similar to the drop off guys like Yzerman and Sakic had. Sometimes you sacrifice offense to win. You become a more complete player at the expense of offensive production. Barry Trotz, Adam Oates, Dale Hunter and Bruce Boudreau have all tried to make him better when the Caps don't possess the puck. Ovechkin's weakness is his hockey IQ isn't on par with those guys. He's the definition of a pure gunslinger.

 

[SaltNPeca]

McDavid's better than any forward in 2016/2017 and that's a fact so I guess this thread is about hopes and dreams.

If he keeps playing like this with a team around him he might not win IIHF WC gold like Crosby... but could end up with more scoring titles, points, and cups. If we're on dat dere dreamy time.

 

[daver]

Crosby missed a lot of time due to injury and it's a knock on his legacy. It's reasonable to assume Crosby's trophy case would dwarf Ovechkin's if he remained healthy but he didn't so it becomes a what if. It's unfair and unfortunate but it's the reality. Same thing happened to McDavid. His injury led to Panarin winning the Calder.

His legacy is what he has accomplished, not what could have been. Unlucky injuries do not take away from his clearly superior on-ice performances.

 

[daver]

As for the drop off in production for Ovechkin; this is simply my opinion and if I see evidence to the contrary I'm happy to concede the point but I think it's similar to the drop off guys like Yzerman and Sakic had. Sometimes you sacrifice offense to win. You become a more complete player at the expense of offensive production. Barry Trotz, Adam Oates, Dale Hunter and Bruce Boudreau have all tried to make him better when the Caps don't possess the puck. Ovechkin's weakness is his hockey IQ isn't on par with those guys. He's the definition of a pure gunslinger.

I give OV full credit in 2014/15 for playing a responsible 2-way game and removing that dynamic from a comparison with Crosby who had developed that part of his game much earlier on.

Other than the Dale Hunter timeframe, he has been the primary weapon for the Caps offense. His numbers since 2010 speak for themselves which puts him somewhere in the group of forwards behind Crosby, the clear #1.

A close debate is their 1st five years. If OV had won the Cup last year with a very good performance then that would have excused a somewhat mediocre regular season (by his standards) and career value would have been close again. But instead it was Crosby who followed up another elite regular season with another elite SCF run, and has maintained his status as best in the world since then.

 

[daver]

You look at stats way too much. You really have proven you do not watch the games, and if you do, your attention to the game is weak.

You should weigh playoffs heavily, that's like saying "oh man I did so good all year on my assignments and tests, but I failed the final exam" and expecting to still get an A.

Funny how that poster doesn't weigh playoffs heavily yet spent a considerable amount of time trying to prove Crosby is a "1st round" producer only.

 

[KingKhron]

The fact that this thread has generated this much debate is mind blowing. The thread title says it all. The rookie in the league who's played 80 games and the other guy who's played around 120-130 have their work cut out for them to match one of the better players to ever play the game and has been in the league for 11 years. Well, duh.

 

[Tofveve]

Tbh, I don't care what the regular season points said. Crosby's the best in the world by a lot. He's going to retire top 5 all time and maybe top 3 or 4. The guy's just other-worldly good - right now. The level of dominance he demonstrates on the ice is insane.

 

[Saku11]

Sullivan on Crosby " he is the best 200ft player in the world" . In the reguar season?...close. Playoffs? agree with Sully absolutely. Then he puts up all those points too. Best in the world.

 

[KingKhron]

Tbh, I don't care what the regular season points said. Crosby's the best in the world by a lot. He's going to retire top 5 all time and maybe top 3 or 4. The guy's just other-worldly good - right now. The level of dominance he demonstrates on the ice is insane.

Can we settle down with this talk already? Top 3 or 4 all time? Not even close.

 

[Tofveve]

Can we settle down with this talk already? Top 3 or 4 all time? Not even close.

VERY close - and possible.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Crosby going for back to back Smythes. If that happens he automatically becomes the 5th best player ever. So ovechkin is small potatoes at this point

 

[Dick Whitman]

Can we settle down with this talk already? Top 3 or 4 all time? Not even close.

He doesn't dominate his era like others did, but if he were to retire with 5 rings, that'd probably put him in that echelon.

 

[Dick Whitman]

Crosby going for back to back Smythes. If that happens he automatically becomes the 5th best player ever. So ovechkin is small potatoes at this point

So you have Patrick Roy as a top 5 player ever?

 

[NeverForget06]

If McDavid can win the Oilers a cup I really don't care whether he ends up being better than Sid. Leafs fans would probably feel the same way about Matthews.

 

[Empoleon8771]

If he keeps playing like this with a team around him he might not win IIHF WC gold like Crosby... but could end up with more scoring titles, points, and cups. If we're on dat dere dreamy time.

I honestly wouldn't bet on McDavid finishing with more cups than Crosby to be honest.

 

[NeverForget06]

I honestly wouldn't bet on McDavid finishing with more cups than Crosby to be honest.

Depends on who else comes up in the west. I think this season is the beginning of some big changes in the west.. with the old powerhouses starting to take a step back. The complexion of the western conference will be very different in 2-3 years. I expect Winnipeg, Calgary and maybe Dallas to all rise up quite a bit.

If the Oilers can pick up a few more pieces to shore up the back end and their bottom 6 depth they could be legitimate contenders. Time will tell.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Depends on who else comes up in the west. I think this season is the beginning of some big changes in the west.. with the old powerhouses starting to take a step back. The complexion of the western conference will be very different in 2-3 years. I expect Winnipeg, Calgary and maybe Dallas to all rise up quite a bit.

If the Oilers can pick up a few more pieces to shore up the back end and their bottom 6 depth they could be legitimate contenders. Time will tell.

They can be legitimate contenders, but Crosby's already at 2 cups and looks to have a good shot at #3 this year. The Penguins are also set up extremely well to contend for the next few years, with the team overflowing with young players and young goalies and having the core locked up. That's not a McDavid vs Crosby thing, it's the Oilers would have to end up very lucky (in all of not getting injuries, getting gems in the draft, stuff like that) to get more cups than the Penguins got.

 

[FuelTheJet]

Why is Matthews in the title
?

Oh how I can't wait till eichel outscores Matthews again this time in a full season to once again have a higher PPG.

Eichel is mad underrated because he plays in Buffalo and the Sabres stunk this year. Matthews is a great talent but he isn't generational.

16 more goals and 13 more points for Matthews in his rookie year.

Eichel wasn't even top 20 in even strength goals in his rookie year, Matthews was 1st in the NHL.

42% of Eichel's goals this year were on the powerplay.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

So you have Patrick Roy as a top 5 player ever?

Crosby>Roy already

 

[McDavidCrushedLarkin]

Except he isn't. Crosby is still better than McDavid. Putting up more points in the regular season doesn't make someone a better player.

Outside of top line speed, Crosby does literally everything better than McDavid does. Defense, shooting, passing, stick handling, board work, face offs.

You're entitled to your opinion.

 

[Fordy]

heard mcdavid has a whole 5 points and 2 goals in the playoffs. impressive stuff. i think we'll see for most of his career that he's a little less than half a crosby

 

[shakermaker]

heard mcdavid has a whole 5 points and 2 goals in the playoffs. impressive stuff. i think we'll see for most of his career that he's a little less than half a crosby

One of his goals is an empty netter. Albeit a pretty good and meaningful one. But I think he'll be fine long term.

Playoffs are a different game and even the most talented/touted/clutch players will need some time to settle in.

I think McDavid most certainly will own the crown as best all round player, but not quite yet, maybe in 2-3 seasons.

Just want to point out Matthews had 4 goals in 6 games... Kid is gonna be clutch and poised in the biggest of big games.

 

[teleman]

Why is Matthews in the title?

Oh how I can't wait till eichel outscores Matthews again this time in a full season to once again have a higher PPG.

If you take the time to read the OP you'll see why Matthews is in the title.

McDavid is certainly dynamic and a gamechanger. After watching Matthews for a complete series I don't think he is that far from McDavid. I think he may even end up being a more complete player than McDavid in the end. It "kind of" pains me to say that about Matthews as I am a Jet fan!

They are great, but they both have such a long way to go to overtake Crosby. Have watched all 3 pretty closely over the last couple weeks and to my eyes the gap between them is even greater than I thought it was.

Sid's play over the last year and a half has not come close to being matched....I know McDavid won a scoring title and Matthews will win a Calder in that time frame but man...Crosby has been all world!

We are so lucky to be able to watch these guys light it up. (That Karlsson kid ain't too shabby either)

IMO McDavid and Matthews(and to keep SabresFan44 happy Eichel ) have much to prove and then to sustain that over years to be considered in the same category as Crosby.
Any one of those three or maybe some other player may catch up to Crosby or overtake him but it is still too early to start that conversation.