Maybe Tavares is the problem

[ryno23]

Marner hate is all the rage right now but maybe it's JT that should be shouldering lots to blame

Look at his Islander days he missed the playoffs in 6 out of 9 years. Point totals in the playoffs drop significantly.

I think his leadership with no emotion and robot-like affect the team. I think you need a better captain who will get piss guys off and call them out when they suck.

Sure Marner has his faults in the playoffs with him being scared but maybe he needs a leader to call his bullshit out and tell him to man up. JT is not that leader

Maybe getting rid of JT next year is the turning point of the franchise and the cap hit they need to get rid of.

Marner would so do himself a favor if he signed a team-friendly deal to take the pressure off him

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[notbias]

Marner hate is all the rage right now but maybe it's JT that should be shouldering lots to blame

Look at his Islander days he missed the playoffs in 6 out of 9 years. Point totals in the playoffs drop significantly.

I think his leadership with no emotion and robot-like affect the team. I think you need a better captain who will get piss guys off and call them out when they suck.

Sure Marner has his faults in the playoffs with him being scared but maybe he needs a leader to call his bullshit out and tell him to man up. JT is not that leader

Maybe getting rid of JT next year is the turning point of the franchise and the cap hit they need to get rid of.

Marner would so do himself a favor if he signed a team-friendly deal to take the pressure off him

Not saying JT is a good leader, but the Amazon series at least showed he is different in the dressing room compared to in front of the media.

I think he is a bland personality, but less so when the cameras are off.

 

[Al14]

Marner hate is all the rage right now but maybe it's JT that should be shouldering lots to blame

Look at his Islander days he missed the playoffs in 6 out of 9 years. Point totals in the playoffs drop significantly.

I think his leadership with no emotion and robot-like affect the team. I think you need a better captain who will get piss guys off and call them out when they suck.

Sure Marner has his faults in the playoffs with him being scared but maybe he needs a leader to call his bullshit out and tell him to man up. JT is not that leader

Maybe getting rid of JT next year is the turning point of the franchise and the cap hit they need to get rid of.

Marner would so do himself a favor if he signed a team-friendly deal to take the pressure off him

I doubt that Marner would take anything less than his current contract dollars. If he really wanted to redeem himself to MLSE and especially to Leafs Nation, he'd accept a pay cut to $8M !!!

As far as JT goes, Islander fans should be cheering him as a Leaf since he was SO BAD for them in the playoffs.

JT and Marner are OVERPAID. JT because his skills and skating are diminishing. Marner because he can't ramp up his game in the playoffs and shy's away from contact at all costs. Cutsie dipsy-doddle plays, and fancy perimeter plays, don't get you anywhere in the NHL, especially when you have a soft shot and avoid contact !!!

JMHO.

 

[notbias]

I doubt that Marner would take anything less than his current contract dollars. If he really wanted to redeem himself to MLSE and especially to Leafs Nation, he'd accept a pay cut to $8M !!!

As far as JT goes, Islander fans should be cheering him as a Leaf since he was SO BAD for them in the playoffs.

JT and Marner are OVERPAID. JT because his skills and skating are diminishing. Marner because he can't ramp up his game in the playoffs and shy's away from contact at all costs. Cutsie dipsy-doddle plays, and fancy perimeter plays, don't get you anywhere in the NHL, especially when you have a soft shot and avoid contact !!!

JMHO.

Nylander is worse than Marner, that's his floor.

 

[Al14]

Nylander is worse than Marner, that's his floor.

At least Nylander will score in the playoffs !!! Without his goal in game 7, our Leafs get shut out !!!

Nylander also scores some big goals during the regular season. He also hates to be hit, however he'll at least drive to the oppositions' net once in a while.

 

[notbias]

At least Nylander will score in the playoffs !!! Without his goal in game 7, our Leafs get shut out !!!

Nylander also scores some big goals during the regular season. He also hates to be hit, however he'll at least drive to the oppositions' net once in a while.

Produces less than Marner and is worse defensively, I don't see a world where he is worth more.

 

[nuck]

Marner would consider Willie's deal as team friendly and he wouldn't sign for that I think. Tavares typically plays under 18:00 a night so for him to be "the" problem he would have to be keeping another player down. As has been pointed out frequently. Pasta shoots the lights out with a center who scores less than JT. Nobody can blame their failures on another player when they are a top 5 salary in the league. They are expected to be wrecking machines on their own, not only when they are playing with another 100pt guy.

 

[Antropovsky]

Produces less than Marner and is worse defensively, I don't see a world where he is worth more.

where are you getting your stats?

5vs5 Marner vs Nylander same lines:

Bertuzzi-Tavares-Marner vs. Bertuzzi-Tavares-Nylander:
- xGF: 0.93 lower
- xGA: 0.14 higher

.93 xgf higher for Nylander line, .14 xga higher for Nylander.

Knies-Matthews-Marner vs. Knies-Matthews-Nylander:
- xGF: 0.56 lower
- xGA: 0.06 lower

.56 xgf higher for Nylander, and .06 xga lower for Nylander.

Nylander blew Marner out of the water offensively, and was similar defensively.

 

[notbias]

where are you getting your stats?

5vs5 Marner vs Nylander same lines:

Bertuzzi-Tavares-Marner vs. Bertuzzi-Tavares-Nylander:
- xGF: 0.93 lower
- xGA: 0.14 higher

.93 xgf higher for Nylander line, .14 xga higher for Nylander.

Knies-Matthews-Marner vs. Knies-Matthews-Nylander:
- xGF: 0.56 lower
- xGA: 0.06 lower

.56 xgf higher for Nylander, and .06 xga lower for Nylander.

Nylander blew Marner out of the water offensively, and was similar defensively.

Are we using a 7 game sample size (less for Nylander) after Nylander signed his contract?

 

[notDatsyuk]

Nylander is worse than Marner, that's his floor.

Not only is that statement just wrong (if anything, Nylander is his ceiling, not his floor), but why bring up Nylander in a discussion about Marner and Tavares?

 

[notbias]

Not only is that statement just wrong (if anything, Nylander is his ceiling, not his floor), but why bring up Nylander in a discussion about Marner and Tavares?

Not only is the statement correct, but I used Nylander as a comparable when discussing his next contract, since our GM just gave a worse player than Marner that contract, I see no scenario where he takes less, let alone $3.5 million less.

 

[Niagara Bill]

Yes JT should go but that will nit happen. Anyone in their right mind would trade JT before Mitchy...we need 11m in cap space more than either one of them.
But Mitchy is most tradeable. Period.
He is not a 10m player, we over paid, so goodbye. To resign him you will need 12.5 long term. No way.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Marner and Tavares are both overpaid, and JT wasn't what we needed at the time, but those are on Dubas, not the players.

They both deserve some criticism for their playoff performances, and the team would most likely be better without either. The reason Marner is getting more attention is the potential after next year. Tavares will likely be expecting no more than a $4x3 contract, while Marner will be looking for at least $12x8.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Not only is the statement correct, but I used Nylander as a comparable when discussing his next contract, since our GM just gave a worse player than Marner that contract, I see no scenario where he takes less, let alone $3.5 million less.

You didn't answer my question, but that's ok.

Yes, Nylander is overpaid - should be about $10, but since he's a better player, about $8 for Marner seems not too far off.

 

[LeafEgo]

JT will drop to 3-ish million and Marner will increase to over 12 million. JT holds no value while Marner has the potential for a blockbuster return.

Moving JT only helps us next season, potentially even hurts us the following season, but moving Marner could help us through the era.

No brainer in the long run.

 

[ACC1224]

Team stats for Marners down year, Nylander's breakout year.

 

[Arzak]

Nylander is worse than Marner, that's his floor.

Is he really?

Nylander is better at scoring in general, playoffs (not even close, one can perform, one is doomed) while not having the benefit of taking mandatory assists whenever Matthews scores.

Team stats for Marners down year, Nylander's breakout year.

View attachment 883951

No need to call Mitch names.

 

[hotpaws]

Marner would consider Willie's deal as team friendly and he wouldn't sign for that I think. Tavares typically plays under 18:00 a night so for him to be "the" problem he would have to be keeping another player down. As has been pointed out frequently. Pasta shoots the lights out with a center who scores less than JT. Nobody can blame their failures on another player when they are a top 5 salary in the league. They are expected to be wrecking machines on their own, not only when they are playing with another 100pt guy.

sure they can , people having been blaming Johnny's teammates to make his light shine brighter while he's been a top 5 paid player as well as blaming his teammates for his failures the last 20 yrs dating back to his time in jr

also this isn't minor hockey where 1 kid can do it by themselves and having a slow footed anchor like Johnny Mumbles on his line can't help but slow down his production

and yes JT is by far and away the biggest issue on this team and has been since the day he signed , great thing for him is people have been conditioned to blame every one else but him for some reason

 

[blue stick]

 

[AvroArrow]

JT Competes to the best of his ability, that's all we can ask. He isn't what he used to be, obviously, but he gives it his all.

Marner doesn't, that is the biggest issue that pisses off most of the fan base. He won't go to dirty area, won't go near the net, he literally avoids loose pucks because he's afraid of contact and has done that numerous times in the playoffs.

I can handle a guy not being as good, I can't handle guys refusing to compete and playing how Marner does in the playoffs. JT's only problem is his salary, he would be phenomenal at 5-6M.

 

[rumman]

JT Competes to the best of his ability, that's all we can ask. He isn't what he used to be, obviously, but he gives it his all.

Marner doesn't, that is the biggest issue that pisses off most of the fan base. He won't go to dirty area, won't go near the net, he literally avoids loose pucks because he's afraid of contact and has done that numerous times in the playoffs.

I can handle a guy not being as good, I can't handle guys refusing to compete and playing how Marner does in the playoffs. JT's only problem is his salary, he would be phenomenal at 5-6M.

THIS..........

 

[hotpaws]

JT Competes to the best of his ability, that's all we can ask. He isn't what he used to be, obviously, but he gives it his all.

Marner doesn't, that is the biggest issue that pisses off most of the fan base. He won't go to dirty area, won't go near the net, he literally avoids loose pucks because he's afraid of contact and has done that numerous times in the playoffs.

I can handle a guy not being as good, I can't handle guys refusing to compete and playing how Marner does in the playoffs. JT's only problem is his salary, he would be phenomenal at 5-6M.

just because JT hangs around the crease doesn't mean he ''competes to the best of his abilities''

he's already made his cash but his main priority is still padding his stats while he cheats on D and ignores teammates looking for his

but hey it's been 20 yrs of blaming everyone but JT so i guess why should we stop now !

as for Marner , i look him the same way i would Patty Kane and that is i'm not looking for him to bang and crash but to create for his teammates and that's why the Hawks used him with players that compliment his game and not to try to prop up an overrated center

 

[RunItBackAgain]

Everyone knows JT is the biggest problem but there’s nothing we can do about it right now.

My true fear lies in management re-signing him to something like 6Mx3. I think we should really put JT on 3LW/3C and PP2 this year to get his numbers where they should be post 11M contract and show him his true value not feasting on tap ins on the PP and Nylander carrying his load around the offensive zone. I can’t handle more years of this guy getting overpaid while he ages worse than Seravalli.

 

[Trapper]

All 5 are the problem. Or at least 2-3 would have dragged us to some kind of playoff positive by now.

All 5 together, not good. That’s why the core needs to be split.

 

[Leafsfan74]

Marner hate is all the rage right now but maybe it's JT that should be shouldering lots to blame

Look at his Islander days he missed the playoffs in 6 out of 9 years. Point totals in the playoffs drop significantly.

I think his leadership with no emotion and robot-like affect the team. I think you need a better captain who will get piss guys off and call them out when they suck.

Sure Marner has his faults in the playoffs with him being scared but maybe he needs a leader to call his bullshit out and tell him to man up. JT is not that leader

Maybe getting rid of JT next year is the turning point of the franchise and the cap hit they need to get rid of.

Marner would so do himself a favor if he signed a team-friendly deal to take the pressure off him

Both need to move on at their current rates. However, JT has some value as a 3rd line C if he is willing to take a big paycut.

I wouldn't sign Marner for even the minimum. I'd take my chances on a team sneaking into the post season but be built for the post-season than 8 years of getting in and winning one round.

One round in eight season. The Leafs and their fans are truly the laughingstock of all pro sports. No courage or concern with winning the Cup. If they did, the changes would have been made last off season.

Enjoy a long season with the annual "shattered dreams" party come playoffs. If they had at least made the Final Four a couple of times...I mean...