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Maurice Richard Trophy: Why so late and why a donated trophy?

alko

alko

Registered User
Oct 20, 2004
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www.slovakhockey.sk
I think, the very first season for this trophy was 1998/1999. Now im wonder, why did it last so long? You have for example Calder Trophy, that is like forever in NHL.

Where there any efforts to create such trophy also in 60s, 70s or 80s?

And on Wikipedia is written: It was donated to the NHL by the Montreal Canadiens
What does it mean? That Canadiens came with this idea? What if Oilers will donate a Wayne Gretzky Trophy?
 
It was interesting for sure to see an award for goal scoring that late, relatively speaking. I really don't recall any other efforts to get a goal scoring leader trophy awarded.
 
Because we are in the NHL's Golden Age of Marketing. Goals sell.
 
alko said:
And on Wikipedia is written: It was donated to the NHL by the Montreal Canadiens
What does it mean? That Canadiens came with this idea? What if Oilers will donate a Wayne Gretzky Trophy?
Click to expand...

From memory yes, the club president came with the idea, proposed it to the league I imagine, but it was the canadian that mandated and paid the 4 artists to create the actual look and build it.
 
Why doesn't Gretzky have a goal-scoring trophy named after him?

Richard

5 1st
3 2nd
1 3rd
2 4th
1 5th

Gretzky

5 1st
2 4th
1 5th

DANG! I JUST NOW REALIZED THE DISPARITY. The raw total goals scored is misleading, but ranking relative.to their own era's greats shows how dominant they were.

Now, before you jump the gun and go from Richard-finishes-better to Richard-scores-better... no he doesn't, and it ain't even close. THIS has nothing to do with the ability to bury the puck but with the ability to generate a goal somehow!!!

Gretz was 16 times 1st in assists.

Richard NEVER top 5 in a friggin' 6-team dang league!!!!
 
We had a similar thread awhile back and I remember looking up who would have won a hypothetical Richard Trophy in the years before it became a thing. And there was typically overlap with the Art Ross winner, so it was my thought that a trophy for most goals might have been seen as redundant at the time. By the 90s, the Art Ross winner wasn't necessarily a leading goal scorer.

Quick scan from 1970 (Ross winner, followed by hypothetical Richard winner):

1969-70: Bobby Orr (120 points), Phil Esposito (43 goals)
1970-71: Esposito (152 points), Esposito (76 goals)
1971-72: Esposito (133 points), Esposito (66 goals)
1972-73: Esposito (130 points), Esposito (55 goals)
1973-74: Esposito (145 points), Esposito (68 goals)
1974-75: Orr (135 points), Esposito (61 goals)
1975-76: Guy Lafleur (125 points), Reggie Leach (61 goals)
1976-77: Lafleur (136 points), Steve Shutt (60 goals)
1977-78: Lafleur (132 points), Lafleur (60 goals)
1978-79: Bryan Trottier (134 points), Mike Bossy (69 goals)
1979-80: Marcel Dionne (137 points), Simmer|Stoughton|Gare (56 goals)
1980-81: Wayne Gretzky (164 points), Bossy (68 goals)
1981-82: Gretzky (212 points), Gretzky (92 goals)
1982-83: Gretzky (196 points), Gretzky (71 goals)
1983-84: Gretzky (205 points), Gretzky (87 goals)
1984-85: Gretzky (208 points), Gretzky (73 goals)
1985-86: Gretzky (215 points), Jari Kurri (68 goals)
1986-87: Gretzky (183 points), Gretzky (62 goals)
1987-88: Mario Lemieux (168 points), Lemieux (70 goals)
1988-89: Lemieux (199 points), Lemieux (85 goals)
1989-90: Gretzky (142 points), Brett Hull (72 goals)
1990-91: Gretzky (163 points), Hull (86 goals)
1991-92: Lemieux (131 points), Hull (70 goals)
1992-93: Lemieux (160 points), Selanne|Mogilny (76 goals)
1993-94: Gretzky (130 points), Pavel Bure (60 goals)
1994-95: Jaromir Jagr (70 points), Petr Bondra (34 goals)
1995-96: Lemieux (161 points), Lemieux (69 goals)
1996-97: Lemieux (122 points), Keith Tkachuk (52 goals)
1997-98: Jagr (102 points), Selanne|Bondra (52 goals)
 
alko said:
I think, the very first season for this trophy was 1998/1999. Now im wonder, why did it last so long? You have for example Calder Trophy, that is like forever in NHL.

Where there any efforts to create such trophy also in 60s, 70s or 80s?

And on Wikipedia is written: It was donated to the NHL by the Montreal Canadiens
What does it mean? That Canadiens came with this idea? What if Oilers will donate a Wayne Gretzky Trophy?
Click to expand...

They've had a scoring trophy (Ross) forever. Scoring in hockey has always been tracked as points. It's not just goals, not just assists, but combination of both to create a point. I'm guessing there was never a trophy before because points was the primary metric tracked.

The Rocket being created was a marketing ploy (not that that's a bad thing). More trophies = better, and goals are fun to track.

As far as Donated by the Motnreal Canadiens. I assume it means they paid to have the trophy built - in honor of Maurice Richard.
 
The Macho Man said:
Is it wrong that I view it as a secondary award?
Click to expand...

Ross, Lindsay, Hart, Smythe are tier 1 to me.
Vezina/Norris tier 2
Rocket/Selke Tier 3
everything else - below.

I probably value Rocket slightly above Selke, too. It's all relative of course, based on year and accomplishment.

VanIslander said:
Why doesn't Gretzky have a goal-scoring trophy named after him?

Richard

5 1st
3 2nd
1 3rd
2 4th
1 5th

Gretzky

5 1st
2 4th
1 5th

DANG! I JUST NOW REALIZED THE DISPARITY. The raw total goals scored is misleading, but ranking relative.to their own era's greats shows how dominant they were.

Now, before you jump the gun and go from Richard-finishes-better to Richard-scores-better... no he doesn't, and it ain't even close. THIS has nothing to do with the ability to bury the puck but with the ability to generate a goal somehow!!!

Gretz was 16 times 1st in assists.

Richard NEVER top 5 in a friggin' 6-team dang league!!!!
Click to expand...

Not really sure what you're trying to say - but I'll just say that I think the Rocket Trophy is the best named trophy in the sport. I love it. I also think Maurice Richard is maybe the most legendary figure the sport has ever known - or very close. Having a trophy named after him seemed fitting. I'm sure part of that is my Montreal bias speaking - but I do still feel that's true league-wide, people who talk about him always do so with some reverence.

Wayne Gretzky should get a trophy named after him, some day. We'll see. I'd absolutely hate for it to be an assist trophy. Gretzky is so much better than just assists. If I had it my way - I would simply rename existing trophies. Maybe do Gretzky for Smythe, Howe for Hart, Lemieux for Ross and Orr for Norris. Maybe do it as some big event (maybe for 125 year anniversary, or some other big event) - rename a bunch of trophies at once.
 
bobholly39 said:
. We'll see. I'd absolutely hate for it to be an assist trophy. Gretzky is so much better than just assists.
Click to expand...

This and goalscoring is one of Wayne weakest part of is ridiculous track record (Ovechkin will maybe end up with more goal, that cannot be said about any other individual feat), when we think Gretzky it is rarely goal scoring that come to mind.

Renaming one day the Art Ross or Hart trophy would be better pick or obviously when they renamed the Lindsay it could have become the Gretzky instead has possible pick for him.
 
bobholly39 said:
Ross, Lindsay, Hart, Smythe are tier 1 to me.
Vezina/Norris tier 2
Rocket/Selke Tier 3
everything else - below.

I probably value Rocket slightly above Selke, too. It's all relative of course, based on year and accomplishment.



Not really sure what you're trying to say - but I'll just say that I think the Rocket Trophy is the best named trophy in the sport. I love it. I also think Maurice Richard is maybe the most legendary figure the sport has ever known - or very close. Having a trophy named after him seemed fitting. I'm sure part of that is my Montreal bias speaking - but I do still feel that's true league-wide, people who talk about him always do so with some reverence.

Wayne Gretzky should get a trophy named after him, some day. We'll see. I'd absolutely hate for it to be an assist trophy. Gretzky is so much better than just assists. If I had it my way - I would simply rename existing trophies. Maybe do Gretzky for Smythe, Howe for Hart, Lemieux for Ross and Orr for Norris. Maybe do it as some big event (maybe for 125 year anniversary, or some other big event) - rename a bunch of trophies at once.
Click to expand...

Since the Norris/Vezina have become the de facto MVP trophies for their positions and are an excuse for voters not to vote for D/G for the Hart, I put them on tier 1
 
I’d like them to rename all the awards:

hart - The Gordie
Art Ross - The Gretzky
Norris - The Orr
Selke - The Keon
Jennings - The Plante
Byng - the Bossy
Adams - the Scotty


Messier - The Yzerman
Vezina, Lindsay and Rocket stay as is
 
Moose Head said:
I’d like them to rename all the awards:

hart - The Gordie
Art Ross - The Gretzky
Norris - The Orr
Selke - The Keon
Jennings - The Plante
Byng - the Bossy
Adams - the Scotty


Messier - The Yzerman
Vezina, Lindsay and Rocket stay as is
Click to expand...
I used to think this kind of thing was a bad idea, and that it was better to keep the existing trophy names for the sake of League tradition.

But then I realized that basically every guy in NHL history whom a long-standing award was named after was a despicable piece of brown-stuff.

Your choices seem reasonable.
 
Gretzky should absolutely be an assist trophy and it will likely happen at some point. It is interesting to look at how the game has changed where at one point the Ross and lead goal scorer were often the same person you now can have 3 different people lead in points, goals and assists.

Renaming the trophies is a generational/era type deal. I think it has a lot to do with legend status as oppose to necessarily being the best and when a player passes on. I'm not sure now but I believe Richard was known to have cancer when the decision was made to introduce the trophy. He was the first non-politician to have a state funeral in Canada.

I'm sure Orr will eventually overtake James Norris for the title of that trophy. Norris was an owner, not a player, he didn't just own the Wings but had stakes in 2 other original six teams. He died in 52 and had a division named after him until 93. His last living son died in 1986 after selling the Wings in 1982. So a lot of time has passed. You could do it now but Orr appears in good health at 71 and there isn't an immediate rush to it. But I would actually be surprised if the trophy wasn't renamed in his honor after his passing.

The Hart Trophy would be a tougher sell. It's named after a Doctor who was the father of a Montreal Canadiens coach and been around a long time now. I sincerely doubt it would be renamed any-time soon but Gordie Howe makes the most sense.

The Vezina is never being renamed as it's in honor of a great goaltender (honored 100 greatest player in 2017) who died young because of TB.

Ross was a player and executive, and with an assist trophy named after Gretzky there'd be no need. But I could see Howe getting this.

Lady Byng seems destined to be renamed after Beliveau.

Selke seems likely but is named after an executive who won 9 rings with both the Leafs and Habs. If it were renamed you have to think Bob Gainey as he won it the first 4 years and is a Habs legend.

Smythe is untouchable like the Vezina because it's named after a long-time Leafs owner who was also a war hero serving in both world wars. IF it were renamed I have to think it'd be Patrick Roy many decades from now.

Adams is interesting with Scotty Bowman's unimaginable success (unlikely to ever be touched) but Adams is a legend in his own right winning the Cup as a player, coach and GM.

Here's a link to a 2009 discussion btw.
https://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl-to-consider-renaming-trophies-hotstove-1.787662
 
if you can rename an award named after a nobel peace prize winner, you can name anything you want after anyone you want
 
The Panther said:
I used to think this kind of thing was a bad idea, and that it was better to keep the existing trophy names for the sake of League tradition.

But then I realized that basically every guy in NHL history whom a long-standing award was named after was a despicable piece of brown-stuff.

Your choices seem reasonable.
Click to expand...

It's true that the naming of most original NHL trophies was mostly greedy assholes patting themselves on the back. But I still feel it would be unethical to change the names of trophies that were donated to the NHL by a specific individual or to honor a specific individual. Which I think were these:
-The Stanley Cup
-The Prince of Wales Trophy
-The Hart
-The Vézina
-The Lady Byng
-The Conn Smythe
-The Rocket

For trophies created by the NHL itself, sure, why not. Although I'd still prefer if the trophies were named after hockey people mostly for off-ice contributions (charity, growth of the sport, whatever). The Pearson/Lindsay renaming was pretty good in that sense. Just having a bunch of Gretzky, Orr, Howe trophies would just feel gimmicky. Should they be renamed every couple generations when better players come along?
 
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