Player Discussion Mason McTavish

[GunnarStahl]

Points per 60 minutes the gap is little bit bigger(which you completely ignored) because Beniers plays a whole 2 minutes more per game this year. It's been that way their careers with Beniers being given 1 to 2 more minutes of ice time per game which is like an extra shift or two where he could score some points but hasn't.

I didn't ignore it, I considered it, Beniers also has a few more games played this year. I just didn't find it notable enough to denigrate Beniers. My main point though is regardless of a production disparity, that's a bad metric to say Seattle messed up.

Also, I don't have the data in front of me but how much more of Beniers deployment is D zone starts and PKing. I wouldn't be surprised if that totally negates his TOI advantage.

Hypothetically, this is 2003, Seattle takes Bergeron 2nd , Ducks take Getzlaf 3rd. Apply your logic, Seattle messed up, apply my logic there is room for discussion beyond ones scoring prowess.

Lastly using your logic, its actually bad that the Ducks didn't trade their 3rd overall pick for a pick like 15th overall straight up, after all, if they did so they could have drafted Wyatt Johnston. Who again I wouldn't conclude is a bona fide better player than Mac or Beniers, rather he just gets to play among other stars. Imagine Mac or Beniers with Robertson, Rantanen, Duchene, Hintz and more supporting.

 

[JAHV]

Beniers is much better defensively than McTavish. Some of his extra time is short-handed and I'm sure some is deployment in the defensive zone.

McTavish would have to outproduce Beniers by a decent amount to be more valuable.

 

[AngelDuck]

I just get the feeling the Beniers is pretty close to maxed out, while McTavish has serious upside left that he hasn’t even scratched.

Like if McTavish were to get a little leaner and a touch quicker, he could be a point per game player pretty easily in my opinion.

I’m not sure Beniers has that extra gear and innate talent offensively

Last 2 seasons:
Beniers: 79 points in 156 games: .51 PPG
McTavish: 92 points in 135 games: .68 PPG

I disagree with the board consensus here that there isn’t already a pretty notable offensive gap between these 2 players. And I think it can get even wider by next season.

I’m not sure if Seattle “regrets” the pick or not but I doubt there’s a lot of GMs in hockey that would take Beniers over McTavish in a redraft right now

 

[Mr Rogers]

I just get the feeling the Beniers is pretty close to maxed out, while McTavish has serious upside left that he hasn’t even scratched.

Like if McTavish were to get a little leaner and a touch quicker, he could be a point per game player pretty easily in my opinion.

I’m not sure Beniers has that extra gear and innate talent offensively

Last 2 seasons:
Beniers: 79 points in 156 games: .51 PPG
McTavish: 92 points in 135 games: .68 PPG

I disagree with the board consensus here that there isn’t already a pretty notable offensive gap between these 2 players. And I think it can get even wider by next season.

I’m not sure if Seattle “regrets” the pick or not but I doubt there’s a lot of GMs in hockey that would take Beniers over McTavish in a redraft right now

Mctavish has always been under the microscope more than other guys around here. When McTavish doesn’t do something right it’s because of him, but with Zegras the coach is always considered as a factor.

 

[ohcomeonref]

Mctavish has always been under the microscope more than other guys around here. When McTavish doesn’t do something right it’s because of him, but with Zegras the coach is always considered as a factor.

I am guilty of this. Part of it is that we were sold Mac as being a more complete, responsible player whereas Z was sold as being a flashy offense first/only type of player.

 

[MCB]

Mctavish has always been under the microscope more than other guys around here. When McTavish doesn’t do something right it’s because of him, but with Zegras the coach is always considered as a factor.

Fowler would like to have a word

 

[zegrassyknoll]

Mctavish has always been under the microscope more than other guys around here. When McTavish doesn’t do something right it’s because of him, but with Zegras the coach is always considered as a factor.

At his worst, McTavish was also taking an insane amount of really stupid penalties which IMO are more frustrating than Zegras making a stupid pass attempt.

Really glad to see he’s cleaned it up.

 

[Mr Rogers]

At his worst, McTavish was also taking an insane amount of really stupid penalties which IMO are more frustrating than Zegras making a stupid pass attempt.

Really glad to see he’s cleaned it up.

My point is he’s been better than Zegras for a while but you’d never know it based on what people say about each

 

[zegrassyknoll]

My point is he’s been better than Zegras for a while but you’d never know it based on what people say about each

Yeah some of the critiques of Mason last year/earlier this year were ridiculous. I legitimately stopped coming here for a few weeks because every GDT was full of people bashing him.

 

[ohcomeonref]

My point is he’s been better than Zegras for a while but you’d never know it based on what people say about each

Z holds a special place for a lot of us. A tiny flickering lightning in the early dark days of the rebuild.

 

[Goose of Reason]

My point is he’s been better than Zegras for a while but you’d never know it based on what people say about each

I think they've been back and forth for a bit. I will maintain that Z has gone through two stretches of being horribly snakebitten, prior to his first injury last season and prior to his injury this season (after game 9 or so when he got moved back to center), where he was the best player on the team but had nothing to show for it. I think he hasn't looked as good or engaged since he came back from his knee injury, which as it goes, means he's actually producing again. McTavish meanwhile was unreal the first 25ish games of last year, and then was slow and bad until around game 20-25 this season, when he picked it up again and has been playing well ever since. I think he was injured, I distinctly remember a game where it looked like he was actually skating at NHL speed again. Both guys are interesting because I think they had the exact same flaws of defensive play and stupid penalties to work through. The defense is still coming (as it is with basically everyone right now) but they've cleaned up the stupid stick infractions.

I think they play off each other very well and I have no idea why it took Cronin so long to try them together. It's natural that two guys that spend so much time together off ice are going to have some chemistry on-ice. Z and Drysdale always played off each other well when Jamie was on the ice.

 

[Mr Rogers]

Z holds a special place for a lot of us. A tiny flickering lightning in the early dark days of the rebuild.

He's great don't get me wrong - and i really don't want to see him moved - but he gets off pretty easy haha.

For my money, Zegras has not delivered much of an impact at all for the last two years up until maybe very recently. Part of it is injury and coaching but definitely not all of it. I'm just saying everyone gets injured and has to deal with shitty coaching but Z isn't finding ways to contribute as often as other guys are.

Mctavish bizarrely has had to play on the 4th line at various points in time this year and has generally had to spend some time with bad wingers. Zegras is pretty much always with our most skilled players. If anything i feel like excuses should be saved for McT all in all.

 

[Ducks in a row]

So now McTavish has his first 20 goal season and his first 30 assist season as well as his first 50 point season in the NHL all coming from this season

 

[LePerilsofPerreault]

Finishes as our top goal scorer and 3 points behind Terry after a slow start.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

Verbeek prefers a bridge deal, a 3-year deal. I think some of us would rather sign Mac to a long term deal. What are the chances Mac chooses as 4-year deal instead, which puts him into a UFA status. Mac has put himself into a good position, especially posting numbers last year as the team's highest goal scorer (22 g) and 2nd best scorer (52 pts) on the team.

 

[robbieboy3686]

Verbeek prefers a bridge deal, a 3-year deal. I think some of us would rather sign Mac to a long term deal. What are the chances Mac chooses as 4-year deal instead, which puts him into a UFA status. Mac has put himself into a good position, especially posting numbers last year as the team's highest goal scorer (22 g) and 2nd best scorer (52 pts) on the team.

View attachment 1050579

The deal that will never happen is Mac at 4 years imho

 

[Hockey Duckie]

The deal that will never happen is Mac at 4 years imho

I don't think Mac wants a 3-year bridge deal with a year left to becoming a UFA. Verbeek shouldn't give into a 4-year deal with Mac. Mac's is in a good position. Verbeek better figure things out sooner than later b/c I can see another situation where yet another prospect is sitting out training camp.

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

I don't think Mac wants a 3-year bridge deal with a year left to becoming a UFA. Verbeek shouldn't give into a 4-year deal with Mac. Mac's is in a good position. Verbeek better figure things out sooner than later b/c I can see another situation where yet another prospect is sitting out training camp.

It doesn’t really matter what he wants, there’s just about no chance the Ducks would offer exactly 4 years for that very reason. I think it’s going to either be 2-3 or 5-6, leaning towards the latter.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

It doesn’t really matter what he wants, there’s just about no chance the Ducks would offer exactly 4 years for that very reason. I think it’s going to either be 2-3 or 5-6, leaning towards the latter.

That's what I am stating as to why Mac is in a good position with his next contract and it seems unlikely it'll be under 4 years. And yes, it kinda matters what Mac wants or he can sit out training camp just like Z and Drysdale did as well as many others before them. iirc, Lindholm did sit out too.

Ducks, Hampus Lindholm end contract stalemate with new six-year deal

Anaheim has missed their No. 1 defenseman while he remained unsigned through their first eight games

www.cbssports.com

 

[AngelDuck]

I’m down for a 6-8 year deal. This is the type of piece that the ducks need to lock up for the entirety of the future cup window IMO

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

That's what I am stating as to why Mac is in a good position with his next contract and it seems unlikely it'll be under 4 years. And yes, it kinda matters what Mac wants or he can sit out training camp just like Z and Drysdale did as well as many others before them. iirc, Lindholm did sit out too.

Ducks, Hampus Lindholm end contract stalemate with new six-year deal

Anaheim has missed their No. 1 defenseman while he remained unsigned through their first eight games

www.cbssports.com

In every one of those instances those guys missed camp because the team ground them down and ultimately got what they wanted. I don’t doubt it could go that way with Mac T but it’s not going to be because he will only sign a 4 year deal. That’s an absurd idea.

To clarify: when I say it doesn’t matter what he wants I’m solely talking about the 4 year term hypothetical. Obviously his money and term asks are a part of everything but a 4 year deal almost certainly isn’t on the table.

 

[robbieboy3686]

In every one of those instances those guys missed camp because the team ground them down and ultimately got what they wanted. I don’t doubt it could go that way with Mac T but it’s not going to be because he will only sign a 4 year deal. That’s an absurd idea.

To clarify: when I say it doesn’t matter what he wants I’m solely talking about the 4 year term hypothetical. Obviously his money and term asks are a part of everything but a 4 year deal almost certainly isn’t on the table.

We don’t have to worry about a 4 year deal, that won’t happen under any circumstance

 

[Hockey Duckie]

In every one of those instances those guys missed camp because the team ground them down and ultimately got what they wanted. I don’t doubt it could go that way with Mac T but it’s not going to be because he will only sign a 4 year deal. That’s an absurd idea.

To clarify: when I say it doesn’t matter what he wants I’m solely talking about the 4 year term hypothetical. Obviously his money and term asks are a part of everything but a 4 year deal almost certainly isn’t on the table.

You keep reiterating what I presented. Because Mac can become a UFA with a 4-year deal, Mac is in a good position for next deal. It will be unlikely his next deal will be 4-years or less.

I had to look what I wrote above and realized I meant less than 5-years, instead of 4 years. My bad.

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

You keep reiterating what I presented. Because Mac can become a UFA with a 4-year deal, Mac is in a good position for next deal. It will be unlikely his next deal will be 4-years or less.

I had to look what I wrote above and realized I meant less than 5-years, instead of 4 years. My bad.

No you flat out said what if he wants a 4 year deal to take him to UFA, with the reasoning attached and all. People have explained to you why that isn’t happening and you’re keeping on for whatever reason.

Also, under 5 years isn’t unlikely at all. Friedman just said on his podcast how Verbeek is comfortable making guys earn money and the only two prominent RFA deals he’s done were for 3 years exactly. There’s a pretty wide range of outcomes when it comes to term, it’s just that 4 years in particular is by far the least likely.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

No you flat out said what if he wants a 4 year deal to take him to UFA, with the reasoning attached and all. People have explained to you why that isn’t happening and you’re keeping on for whatever reason.

Also, under 5 years isn’t unlikely at all. Friedman just said on his podcast how Verbeek is comfortable making guys earn money and the only two prominent RFA deals he’s done were for 3 years exactly. There’s a pretty wide range of outcomes when it comes to term, it’s just that 4 years in particular is by far the least likely.

Here's my quote:

I don't think Mac wants a 3-year bridge deal with a year left to becoming a UFA. Verbeek shouldn't give into a 4-year deal with Mac. Mac's is in a good position. Verbeek better figure things out sooner than later b/c I can see another situation where yet another prospect is sitting out training camp.

It's already implied we won't see a 3 or 4 year deal above. Hell, I wouldn't give Mac a 4-year deal. But Mac does have more leverage, especially if the goal is to make the playoffs and he's your top goal scorer as well as 2nd best scorer on the team.

Then you responded with Mac getting 2-3 years or 5-6 years. Afterwards, I said it probably won't be under 4 years (which I meant 5 years), reiterating it won't be a 4-year contract or less.