Marty St. Louis

[True Blue]

Getzlaf had 58 points that season, one more than "will never ever ever be a #1C" Stepan.

Getzlaf went on to score 17 points in 21 games in those playoffs. The next season, he tallied over 80. Common sense dictates that by the time those playoffs were being played, he was playing at a 1c level.

 

[True Blue]

What's worse is that you condescend to those who don't agree with you when you are quite frankly incorrect on some things (not all).

I will state that coming off as condescending is not my intent.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

We prefer to discuss and not just stick our heads in the sand and sing *** ba ya and point to puck possession stats as evidence of greatness.

So is the insinuation that everyone who disagrees with you does this ridiculous crap b/c if so then this is where everyone gets annoyed especially when you are wrong about a lot of the stuff you talk about. If this isn't the insinuation then at the least it's an ignorant, inflammatory, petty, condescending comment.

Or do you really fantasize that you are in a world where all your opposition is unrealistically sticking its head in the sand pointing to nothing more than puck possession stats as evidence of greatness? Because you have to realistically know that this isn't the case.

 

[aufheben]

Please stop the personal shots, and all the pot calling the kettle black.

Edit: Ok hypocrisy isn't actually against the rules, but just try and relax haha. I haven't even finished my damn coffee yet. Same team..

 

[True Blue]

So is the insinuation that everyone who disagrees with you does this ridiculous crap b/c if so then this is where everyone gets annoyed especially when you are wrong about a lot of the stuff you talk about. If this isn't the insinuation then at the least it's an ignorant, inflammatory, petty, condescending comment.

There is no insinuation. I frankly do not care where anyone gets annoyed. I will state my points and debate others. Sometimes, they get heated, sometimes they do not. But I have been around here long enough to learn not to care. So, debate me or not. Your choice. Discuss or not. Your choice. After that, frankly my dear........

 

[Ail]

Which would make him one of the most remarkable players in NHL history. What are the chances that MSL is SO special?

Uh how about that he is already a part of an elite group of players who scored a significant amount at age 38? What makes you think he doesn't belong in that group? Is his scoring pace over the past season an anomaly? Has he never scored like an elite player at any other time in his career?

Look at the numbers and you tell us why he can't be that player without resorting to: because omg old.

Nope not negative just because at all. Ignores all pertinent data and bases conclusions on bad feelings and irrelevant things from yesteryear without even being remotely objective. Kinda contradictory to being negative but having good reason to be.

 

[Ail]

Getzlaf went on to score 17 points in 21 games in those playoffs. The next season, he tallied over 80. Common sense dictates that by the time those playoffs were being played, he was playing at a 1c level.

In hindsight*.

Again would you being saying this in round one game one of those playoffs when he only scored 58 points in the regular season? My guess is no from simply looking at how you view MSL's production going forward.

 

[Nightshift]

I look at it this way. If St. Louis plays at or near his current level for another 3 seasons then retires, whats the problem? No different then an elite talent at 32 or 28 who spends only a few years with the team. This isn't the 90's. These players don't grow on trees anymore like they seemed to back then. We've seen many good players flop here that some can't comprehend the notion that a 38 yr old can still be elite for a few years. We're not getting elite talent or anything close with a 1st round pick in the 20's. Sure, you can get a little lucky if someone really blossoms or find that gem in the late rounds like Lundqvist, but those odds are slim.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

I look at it this way. If St. Louis plays at or near his current level for another 3 seasons then retires, whats the problem? No different then an elite talent at 32 or 28 who spends only a few years with the team. This isn't the 90's. These players don't grow on trees anymore like they seemed to back then. We've seen many good players flop here that some can't comprehend the notion that a 38 yr old can still be elite for a few years. We're not getting elite talent or anything close with a 1st round pick in the 20's. Sure, you can get a little lucky if someone really blossoms or find that gem in the late rounds like Lundqvist, but those odds are slim.

The problem is that, while MSL may remain elite into next season, he may not remain elite when hes 41/42 years old.

So, really, all this does is give the Rangers yet another reason to fall into the trap of catering the team to a win-now window, complete with decisions that have little foresight past the next 12 months.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Getzlaf went on to score 17 points in 21 games in those playoffs. The next season, he tallied over 80. Common sense dictates that by the time those playoffs were being played, he was playing at a 1c level.

17 points in 21 games and Stepan this year has his best playoff start so far, 3 points in 3 games. He's been a PPG player in the last quarter of the season. If the Rangers were to play 21 games it's not out of the question Stepan puts up 17 points either.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

There is no insinuation. I frankly do not care where anyone gets annoyed. I will state my points and debate others. Sometimes, they get heated, sometimes they do not. But I have been around here long enough to learn not to care. So, debate me or not. Your choice. Discuss or not. Your choice. After that, frankly my dear........

Why did you say it if there's no insinuation? Nobody here is sticking their head in the sand and using puck possession alone as a measure of greatness. So I don't get the comment it doesn't seem to have any meaning. Responses indicate a level of giving a damn. It usually only gets heated because we're being jerks towards one another and not because of our hockey opinions.

 

[True Blue]

What makes you think he doesn't belong in that group?

The group that has less than 5 players? Just a guess.

Look at the numbers and you tell us why he can't be that player without resorting to: because omg old.

Please rattle off for me all of the elite level players at the age of 39 & 40.

 

[Ail]

The group that has less than 5 players? Just a guess.

Please rattle off for me all of the elite level players at the age of 39 & 40.

Lol seriously? Why are you asking me to repeat what -31- clearly illustrated with graphs even?

Stop deflecting. MSL has been an elite player most of his career sans breaking in to the league. If the only reason you don't think he will is because a bunch of players who didn't have the career MSL has didn't do it then okay.

 

[Thirty One]

Which would make him one of the most remarkable players in NHL history. What are the chances that MSL is SO special?

Pretty good, I would say, since, as been posted many times and ignored by you just as frequently, St. Louis has the 3rd highest goal total and 6th highest point total of any player in NHL history at age 38.

In hindsight*.

Again would you being saying this in round one game one of those playoffs when he only scored 58 points in the regular season? My guess is no from simply looking at how you view MSL's production going forward.

Yeah, Stepan has 3 points in 3 games so far this post-season. Unfortunately, his next season's point production isn't currently available to us.

If the Rangers were to play 18 more playoff games (

), Stepan would need 14 more points to match Getzlaf's pace.

In his last 33 games this season, Stepan had 10 goals and 20 assists. In his last 33 games in 2006-07, Getzlaf had 6 goals and 20 assists.

 

[Thirty One]

Lol seriously? Why are you asking me to repeat what -31- clearly illustrated with graphs even?

Stop deflecting. MSL has been an elite player most of his career sans breaking in to the league. If the only reason you don't think he will is because a bunch of players who didn't have the career MSL has didn't do it then okay.

Exactly.

I'm not expecting him to go from 0 to 60 in his forties. I just don't think the likelihood of him decelerating from 80 to 30 is that great.

But whatever, strawmaners be strawmanning.

 

[Ian]

In the past three years, MSL has played at 0.985 PPG.

In the past three years, Callahan has played at 0.650 PPG.

In three years, which one will score the closest to their current level?

My money would be on MSL, so how is that a "go for it" move?

 

[Thirty One]

In the past three years, MSL has played at 0.985 PPG.

In the past three years, Callahan has played at 0.650 PPG.

In three years, which one will score the closest to their current level?

My money would be on MSL, so how is that a "go for it" move?

Because, the Rangers could potentially give up a pick as high as 26th this year and next year they're going to give up the McDavid pick because St. Louis is old and they lack toffnuss.

duh.

 

[Ian]

Because, the Rangers could potentially give up a pick as high as 26th this year and next year they're going to give up the McDavid pick because St. Louis is old and they lack toffnuss.

duh.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

In the past three years, MSL has played at 0.985 PPG.

In the past three years, Callahan has played at 0.650 PPG.

In three years, which one will score the closest to their current level?

My money would be on MSL, so how is that a "go for it" move?

So now we judge Ryan Callahan's value on PPG? For that matter, we judge a player's value to a team by looking at their PPG?

 

[Thirty One]

So now we judge Ryan Callahan's value on PPG? For that matter, we judge a player's value to a team by looking at their PPG?

I think it's a good measure for a scoring forward. Do you not?

 

[Ail]

I think it's a good measure for a scoring forward. Do you not?

Callahan is only a scoring forward, elite second wing, power play specialist when he isn't 0 points in 4 games and a minus 2 while his team is swept. Otherwise he is a gritty, blue collar, heart and soul guy with so many intangibles you can't even count them all. Get with it, man.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

For how much praise Callahan gets you'd think PPG would be somewhat important. We can get Jed Ortmeyer to just be a good energy guy and shotblocker.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Callahan is only a scoring forward, elite second wing, power play specialist when he isn't 0 points in 4 games and a minus 2 while his team is swept. Otherwise he is a gritty, blue collar, heart and soul guy with so many intangibles you can't even count them all. Get with it, man.

Im not quite sure how we got into an MSL vs. Callahan debate when the real debate is about what silly moves the Rangers will make to salvage MSL's age 40 season

Im all about win-now being its clearly here and theres nothing we can do about it, but some credence should be given to the mess that Sather is going to leave the next GM.

 

[Thirty One]

Just for fun, I dug in a little:

Callahan with the Rangers: 47 blocks in 45 games (1.04 per)
St. Louis with the Rangers: 16 blocks in 19 games (0.84 per)

 

[Thirty One]

Im not quite sure how we got into an MSL vs. Callahan debate when the real debate is about what silly moves the Rangers will make to salvage MSL's age 40 season

I have faith that you'll get there.