Player Discussion Marner

[ToneDog]

Marner has choked the last 8 years, while Tkachuk is on the rise.

I'm thinking he hasn't been watching the last few years because nobody in his right mind is taking Marner over MT and at millions less. And it is not even close.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Matthew Tkachuk has also won more playoff rounds in the last 30 days than Marner has in his entire NHL career.

Really, he did himself? Not including the Panthers?

 

[Gary Nylund]

So at first this thread title was changed every day, but now hasn't changed in a couple of days. Does Groundhog day mean that Marner is still a Maple Leaf and the thread title will be changed once he's traded?

 

[Antropovsky]

Really, he did himself? Not including the Panthers?

.... Marner:

- Responsible for 7 plays that led to opposition goals against in series elimination games over last 5 postseasons.
- does not go to dirty areas and does not get into scrums
- generally his shots are from near the oppositions blueline
- Last postseason, his shots were 10' further from the net than where he shot from the season (far and wide worst among leafs), and he also had the worst slot shot% among Leafs...and worse than the next leaf by over 10%.
- this past postseason he had just 8 5v5 shots on goal in 7 games.
- his ixg has never been above 2 in any playoffs, and it's been below 1 in 3 postseasons, including this past playoff.

When you consider how all the above would effect the game and his linemates.... I'm 100% confident in saying that the Leafs would've been better off not having him on the roster. Not to mention imagine that 11 million put ANYWHERE else?

 

[613Leafer]

3 years ago - Mitch Marner is afraid to get hit.​

There’s no need to overanalyse why he was invisible all series. He’s afraid to get hit.

It was as obvious in the regular season, but in playoffs when all hits are finished, you really get to see it. This explains the five puck over glass penalties in the playoffs. He hears footsteps. Watch him go into the corner - he wins the foot race but then let’s the opposing player pick up the puck first.
I mean, it’s all well and good to play this way in the regular season - he is 165 pounds and all, so he’s trying to avoid injury. But in the playoffs, especially a game 7, you’ve got to take a hit to make the play.
That top line was completely useless all series because someone would throw the puck in the corner, and if Hyman wasn’t able to be the first on it and win the battle, it was an instant turnover.



3 years later nothing has changed except he now wants McDavid money.

Wish I could give multiple likes to this.

If you actually watch the games - this is Marner, but multiple times a game, and then multiplied over multiple disappointing seasons.

Shift after shift you notice he's trying to avoid contact at all costs, instead of trying to win at all costs.

 

[notDatsyuk]

The vast majority still want him on the team. This place is more militant than the average fan and less than 20% would boo him. Of the fans that actually go to games I’d think it would be less than 10%.

Not booing him is not the same as not wanting him on the team.

 

[Leaf Fans]

.... Marner:

- Responsible for 7 plays that led to opposition goals against in series elimination games over last 5 postseasons.
- does not go to dirty areas and does not get into scrums
- generally his shots are from near the oppositions blueline
- Last postseason, his shots were 10' further from the net than where he shot from the season (far and wide worst among leafs), and he also had the worst slot shot% among Leafs...and worse than the next leaf by over 10%.
- this past postseason he had just 8 5v5 shots on goal in 7 games.
- his ixg has never been above 2 in any playoffs, and it's been below 1 in 3 postseasons, including this past playoff.

When you consider how all the above would effect the game and his linemates.... I'm 100% confident in saying that the Leafs would've been better off not having him on the roster. Not to mention imagine that 11 million put ANYWHERE else?

So, did he do it himself? Not including the Panthers?

 

[Trapper]

So at first this thread title was changed every day, but now hasn't changed in a couple of days. Does Groundhog day mean that Marner is still a Maple Leaf and the thread title will be changed once he's traded?

I thought it was fitting. I’m living the same thing with this team day after day, year after year and I’m the only one who can see it. For the majority of the run it back crowd, every time is the first time.

 

[Sundinisagod]

With regards to a sign and trade, what are the particulars for Marner to get that 8th year? Does the contract need to be signed by Toronto? Can it happen anytime between July 1st til the trade deadline or is there a cut off date?

That 8th year i think is the only faint hope there is for Marner to consider waiving. Also, Marner set his own floor for his next contract with his previous one. He won't take less than the same cap % as last time. The same cap % brings him to around 12m if not mistaken? If so, I think the Leafs may need to retain a bit for this to be acceptable to any other team.

 

[notDatsyuk]

12.5 for 8 plus 1 for free so 9 years for 100 million. That is possible, it’s only a hundred grand a year more than he is getting now 5 years from now it will be cheap.

That is less than Nylander money, in real money his new club has to pay out.

Yes, but you still have to find someone who will pay Mitch $11.2 a year and take a cap hit of $12.5 - a double whammy for a pretty good player who disappears in the playoffs.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Did you miss the Nylander extension? According to that, Marner is worth $12.5 million.

I would rather not pay him that, but Nylander's extension is Marner's floor.

$12.13 million is the equivalent of Nylander's new extension at $92.5 million.

Nylander's contract is Marner's ceiling, not floor.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

With regards to a sign and trade, what are the particulars for Marner to get that 8th year? Does the contract need to be signed by Toronto? Can it happen anytime between July 1st til the trade deadline or is there a cut off date?

That 8th year i think is the only faint hope there is for Marner to consider waiving. Also, Marner set his own floor for his next contract with his previous one. He won't take less than the same cap % as last time. The same cap % brings him to around 12m if not mistaken? If so, I think the Leafs may need to retain a bit for this to be acceptable to any other team.

So far as I know the team that holds his rights can sign him to an eight year extenstion at any time after July 1st of the last year of his current contract and before July 1st next year when it expires and he becomes UFA.

So they can sign him first and then trade him like Calgary did with Tkachuk. Or they can trade him and the receiving team can sign him to an eight year extension like Vegas did with Stone. Either way Marner will 100% be getting an eight year deal.

Whether it will be the Toronto Maple Leafs giving it to him remains to be seen.

 

[Antropovsky]

So, did he do it himself? Not including the Panthers?

Yes I think a player playing 20 mins a night in a 60 min game, taking up 13% of the cap, and literally giving away gwgs in critical games like they are candy...and playing far far away from the net, fearing physical hockey, could certainly be the root cause ending a Teams playoffs.

5:05 of below youtube video. Panthers vs Leafs game 2 (leafs down 1-0 in series, critical game at home) Leafs are tied 2-2, Marner makes a lateral pass inside his zone on a breakout, that is easily broken up by Panthers, who steal it and score the gwg. A lateral pass inside your own zone? That's a pee wee no-no.

My favorite part is when the broadcast team says this about the Panthers gwg against "Now Marner has an opportunity to get it out, instead a risky play inside his own line.."

I have 6 more Marner highlights like this from other series over the past 5 years. Let me know if you're interested in seeing them.



A little more food for thought from 2023 playoffs:

Shot distance season vs playoffs

Yes...Marner was shooting 10 feet further from the net in the playoffs vs season. Imagine you're Matthews watching those muffins floating in from 40'.

Percentage of shots from the slot

Marner’s “portion of shots from the slot” percentage was last on the Leafs in the playoffs by over 10 per cent.

The two Leaf 11 million+ players whose game hardly changed from season to playoffs? Tavares and Matthews. The 11 million dollar leafs whose game changed substantially from season to playoffs? And much more than 7 million Nylander? Mitch Marner. Here's some more great info from 2023 playoffs:

And second, in terms of successful (as in, they landed on net) shots taken from the inner slot in the playoffs, John Tavares had twice as many as the next best Leafs player with 20 in just 11 games. That he only had four playoff goals is crazy; he’s the only guy who can really make a claim to have gotten “unlucky” with his post-season output (his secondary assists also dried up, which is partially bad luck).

John Tavares with twice as many inner slot shots as the next best leaf! Wow!

It’s also tough to make sense of Matthews’ dried-up point totals, but what really dropped were his primary assists, which went from 1.16 (per 60) to 0.48. Hindsight is 20/20, but seeing how far Marner was living from the net in the above stats, and that Calle Jarnkrok was on Matthews’ left side, maybe it would’ve been tough to tally many points on passes.

With that, I think it’s a fair criticism of the coach that the team went down with Matthews and Marner tied together to the very end, despite the fact that there was only a primary assist between the two just twice in the playoffs, at all strengths.

Jeez just two primary assists between the two..whose the player that is supposed to have Gretzky like vision? Might have helped if Marner was a little closer to the net, or was able to cycle!

Two plays, three postseasons apart, showing how the opposition easily gains controls of the puck because of Marners fear of physical play, hes literally giving the puck to the opponent to avoid contact! One is a game 7 too!

 

[Superstar]

Yes I think a player playing 20 mins a night in a 60 min game, taking up 13% of the cap, and literally giving away gwgs in critical games like they are candy...and playing far far away from the net, fearing physical hockey, could certainly be the root cause ending a Teams playoffs.

5:05 of below youtube video. Panthers vs Leafs game 2 (leafs down 1-0 in series, critical game at home) Leafs are tied 2-2, Marner makes a lateral pass inside his zone on a breakout, that is easily broken up by Panthers, who steal it and score the gwg. A lateral pass inside your own zone? That's a pee wee no-no.




A little more food for thought from 2023 playoffs:

Shot distance season vs playoffs
View attachment 876193

Yes...Marner was shooting 10 feet further from the net in the playoffs vs season. Imagine your Matthews and your watching those muffins floating in from 40'.

Percentage of shots from the slot
View attachment 876194


The two Leaf 11 million+ players whose game hardly changed from season to playoffs? Tavares and Matthews. The 11 million dollar leafs whose game changed substantially from season to playoffs? Mitch Marner. Here's some more great info from 2023 playoffs:


John Tavares with twice as many inner slot shots as the next best leaf! Wow!


Jeez just two primary assists between the two..whose the player that is supposed to have Gretzky like vision? Might have helped if Marner was a little closer to the net, or was able to cycle!

It has been clear for me early on that Matthews despite being the best goal scorer in the league will never come close to winning the Art Ross trophy because his winger Marner has a bad shot and plays around the perimeter. Players like McDavid and Kucherov could rack up 100 regular season assists because they have shooters around them or players who are not afraid to drive the net to score. Marner is the worse boat anchor for what he is paid come playoff time and the Leafs will never win the Cup with him.

It was a freakin' joke when he wanted Matthews money when he is nowhere near as good or as important to the team...this gets proven every post season since Dubas gave him that contract. Some folks keep harping about Hyman having stone hands when he was here and how he was dragging down Matthews and Marner, but he's been amazing with Edmonton, while Marner is still crap here. Perhaps, it's Marner who is the big problem.

 

[centipede2233]

Yes I think a player playing 20 mins a night in a 60 min game, taking up 13% of the cap, and literally giving away gwgs in critical games like they are candy...and playing far far away from the net, fearing physical hockey, could certainly be the root cause ending a Teams playoffs.

5:05 of below youtube video. Panthers vs Leafs game 2 (leafs down 1-0 in series, critical game at home) Leafs are tied 2-2, Marner makes a lateral pass inside his zone on a breakout, that is easily broken up by Panthers, who steal it and score the gwg. A lateral pass inside your own zone? That's a pee wee no-no.

My favorite part is when the broadcast team says this about the Panthers gwg against "Now Marner has an opportunity to get it out, instead a risky play inside his own line.."

I got 6 more Marner highlights like this from other series over the past 5 years. Let me know if you're interested in seeing them.



A little more food for thought from 2023 playoffs:

Shot distance season vs playoffs
View attachment 876193

Yes...Marner was shooting 10 feet further from the net in the playoffs vs season. Imagine your Matthews and your watching those muffins floating in from 40'.

Percentage of shots from the slot
View attachment 876194


The two Leaf 11 million+ players whose game hardly changed from season to playoffs? Tavares and Matthews. The 11 million dollar leafs whose game changed substantially from season to playoffs? Mitch Marner. Here's some more great info from 2023 playoffs:


John Tavares with twice as many inner slot shots as the next best leaf! Wow!


Jeez just two primary assists between the two..whose the player that is supposed to have Gretzky like vision? Might have helped if Marner was a little closer to the net, or was able to cycle!

Scary part is many consider 2023 Marners best postseason!

Excellent info. Just reaffirms that marner and nylander shy away from contact so it pushes their positioning further in playoffs to avoid the playoff tight checking contact. It’s why marner has to go. He won’t change his game for the playoffs. He will always be a figure skater dancing the perimeter trying to make a pass that’ll work once or twice in a 7 game series. Use the cap dollars on a couple of d men like zadarov and montour.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Yes I think a player playing 20 mins a night in a 60 min game, taking up 13% of the cap, and literally giving away gwgs in critical games like they are candy...and playing far far away from the net, fearing physical hockey, could certainly be the root cause ending a Teams playoffs.

5:05 of below youtube video. Panthers vs Leafs game 2 (leafs down 1-0 in series, critical game at home) Leafs are tied 2-2, Marner makes a lateral pass inside his zone on a breakout, that is easily broken up by Panthers, who steal it and score the gwg. A lateral pass inside your own zone? That's a pee wee no-no.

My favorite part is when the broadcast team says this about the Panthers gwg against "Now Marner has an opportunity to get it out, instead a risky play inside his own line.."

I have 6 more Marner highlights like this from other series over the past 5 years. Let me know if you're interested in seeing them.



A little more food for thought from 2023 playoffs:

Shot distance season vs playoffs
View attachment 876193

Yes...Marner was shooting 10 feet further from the net in the playoffs vs season. Imagine you're Matthews watching those muffins floating in from 40'.

Percentage of shots from the slot
View attachment 876194


The two Leaf 11 million+ players whose game hardly changed from season to playoffs? Tavares and Matthews. The 11 million dollar leafs whose game changed substantially from season to playoffs? And much more than 7 million Nylander? Mitch Marner. Here's some more great info from 2023 playoffs:


John Tavares with twice as many inner slot shots as the next best leaf! Wow!


Jeez just two primary assists between the two..whose the player that is supposed to have Gretzky like vision? Might have helped if Marner was a little closer to the net, or was able to cycle!

Scary part is many consider 2023 Marners best postseason!

You are not even trying to answer the questions.

 

[bax]

Had nothing to do with that. Don’t be surprised if Berube wants to keep Marner and thinks he can elevate his performance. Bitter Leafs fans don’t represent the pro opinion of Marner, not saying he isn’t flawed, but the tire fire here is a low rent mirage.

It’s more money than liking the player or not.

That’s how I took it too.

 

[thewave]

Monday light Rep edition.


If they wont trade Marner they should essentially purge the scouts and the trainers and sports science dept etc. Trim the fat. Shanny should be gone and BT given full control. See what the Pizza man can bring.

 

[thewave]

Yes I think a player playing 20 mins a night in a 60 min game, taking up 13% of the cap, and literally giving away gwgs in critical games like they are candy...and playing far far away from the net, fearing physical hockey, could certainly be the root cause ending a Teams playoffs.

5:05 of below youtube video. Panthers vs Leafs game 2 (leafs down 1-0 in series, critical game at home) Leafs are tied 2-2, Marner makes a lateral pass inside his zone on a breakout, that is easily broken up by Panthers, who steal it and score the gwg. A lateral pass inside your own zone? That's a pee wee no-no.

My favorite part is when the broadcast team says this about the Panthers gwg against "Now Marner has an opportunity to get it out, instead a risky play inside his own line.."

I have 6 more Marner highlights like this from other series over the past 5 years. Let me know if you're interested in seeing them.



A little more food for thought from 2023 playoffs:

Shot distance season vs playoffs
View attachment 876193

Yes...Marner was shooting 10 feet further from the net in the playoffs vs season. Imagine you're Matthews watching those muffins floating in from 40'.

Percentage of shots from the slot
View attachment 876194


The two Leaf 11 million+ players whose game hardly changed from season to playoffs? Tavares and Matthews. The 11 million dollar leafs whose game changed substantially from season to playoffs? And much more than 7 million Nylander? Mitch Marner. Here's some more great info from 2023 playoffs:


John Tavares with twice as many inner slot shots as the next best leaf! Wow!


Jeez just two primary assists between the two..whose the player that is supposed to have Gretzky like vision? Might have helped if Marner was a little closer to the net, or was able to cycle!

Scary part is many consider 2023 Marners best postseason!

Appreciate the time and effort you took to bring us these mission critical hate facts.

I swear Marner was coached to do things to advance his advanced stats. He plays like its a video game and he is trying to get on the leaderboard for certain metrics.

I call him out for every corsi shot and all the bs during the games as well. He really is a fraud superstar when you break down his game.

Regular season. He looks fancy

 

[Arzak]

Had nothing to do with that. Don’t be surprised if Berube wants to keep Marner and thinks he can elevate his performance. Bitter Leafs fans don’t represent the pro opinion of Marner, not saying he isn’t flawed, but the tire fire here is a low rent mirage.

It’s more money than liking the player or not.

Even in your dreams, you are admitting his game needs to be elevated by new coach (ROFL). He is what he is, after 8 years your pro opinion is Berube will waste another year trying to get Mitch Marner going?

What could go wrong? He either sucks ass as he always does, wasting another prime year of Matthews and Nylander or he plays semi-decent playoffs and demands 14M.


Marner faithfuls got the best takes! It's not like there is realistic path for Berube to do it. Mitch is scared asf out there in the playoffs. He's lacking shot and speed. He lacks determination and balls to play on the boards and in front of the net. He is missing 30 pounds of muscles.

Just tell us what Berube can do about it so we can all have a laugh ! Thanks

 

[GoonieFace]

I would expect Berube to take a kid like Knies to the next level, not an “elite” player that has been raking in $11mil a season for the past 5 years.

 

[Arzak]

Appreciate the time and effort you took to bring us these mission critical hate facts.

I swear Marner was coached to do things to advance his advanced stats. He plays like its a video game and he is trying to get on the leaderboard for certain metrics.

I call him out for every corsi shot and all the bs during the games as well. He really is a fraud superstar when you break down his game.

Regular season. He looks fancy

^^

This. How else can you explain Marners corsi jerks? He holds onto the puck until everyone is in the position, proceeds with a meh shot(dump) with 0% chance for a rebound not to mention a goal.

Every game, for someone with a Wayne-like hockey mind, a lot of his game can only be explained as pleasing advanced stats, not trying to score.

 

[Trapper]

M-35 days until July 1st bonuses.
Don’t feel too sad for the media pressure and wanting to trade him as he will collect his 7 million.

Hopefully something can get done on the movement front in July.

 

[rumman]

I thought it was fitting. I’m living the same thing with this team day after day, year after year and I’m the only one who can see it. For the majority of the run it back crowd, every time is the first time.

Be aware, you sre not alone…….

 

[TheGreenTBer]

We really need the playoffs to end so that this very critical offseason can begin or we are going to start eating each other.

Except if Edmonton wins. Then we all need to spontaneously combust.