Caser
Moderator
- May 21, 2013
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The translation looks correct, but I'm not able to tell what exactly did he mean here.
Prospect Info: Marlies/Prospects Thread - 2023-23 Season Edition
- Thread starter BertCorbeau
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Namikaze Minato
Registered User
I wouldn't put anything past this kid TBH. It's not an expectation I will put on the kid, but if there is any player that's gunna make it happen, it's going to be Rodion. He was working out throughout his treatment. Just insane.
I actually believe he will return to Toronto when he is cleared to do so. We have better training facilities then anything in the KHL, and he already got a taste of what that looked like. He clearly loved his time in Toronto. The kid couldn't wipe the smile off of his face the entire time.
That would be an awesome story if he was able to play this year .
I just went a looked through a bunch of sites looking at Kokkonens height, the ahl website is the only one that has him at 6'2, but that should also be the most up to date one. All the other sites have him at either 5'11, or 6'. I also found 1 site that had him listed at 5'8. Super weird.
SeaOfBlue
The Passion That Unites Us All
- Aug 1, 2013
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WTFMAN99
Registered User
- Jun 17, 2009
- 34,655
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Honestly, if you're thick it helps, Holmberg is probably 5'10-5'11 but bloody solid on his feet.
Robertson is very slight. It even took Kadri a few years to finally get that man strength.
Fonzieleaf
Registered User
Toronto and Pittsburgh are the only teams without a prospect in this year's WJC.
Montreal has the most with 6 (boo)
Montreal has the most with 6 (boo)
The Iceman
Registered User
- Sep 22, 2007
- 5,349
- 4,069
Good teams/trade deadline buyers lack age appropriate prospects
Bad teams/trade deadline sellers have lots of them
The Podium
Registered User
Ty Voit really should’ve been there. USA have no playmakers and he’s the leading the OHL by a significant margin.
Fraser Minten should’ve gotten some love from team Canada as well.
Knies, Niemela and Amriov* aged out
Not a huge deal really. The big nation WJC teams are mainly a team full of 1st round picks (or soon to be), which we haven’t had in a while.
Obviously you'd love to see our guys representing their countries at the WJC but it's really not all that surprising that we don't, nor is it indicative of our prospect pool at all.
Looking at our last 2 drafts, we have selected only 8 players combined between the 2 drafts:
2021:
Matthew Knies - Not eligible
Ty Voit- He arguably got snubbed in the selection process, but regardless looks like a very good prospect despite being omitted from the US roster.
Slava Peksa - Not eligible. Not to mention I believe he was drafted as an "overager" or a 2nd time eligible.
2022:
Fraser Minton - Eligible, but was always in tough to make a stacked Canada squad. This team has been referenced as best team since the lockout 2005 squad. Having a great season in Kamloops in a secondary roll.
Nick Moldenhauer - Same as above, but he realistically never had a shot. Not sure I can rememeber the last USHL player to play for Team Canada. Still tracking well as a prospect.
Dennis Hildeby - Not eligible, drafted as an overager. Looks great in SHL
Nikita Grebenkin - Eligible, but Russia is not. Likely would have been in consideration.
Brandon Lisowsky - Eligible. Same as Minton and Moldenhauer. Very unlikely he would ever have made this team given Canada's depth. Tracking great for a 7th rounder.
Undrafted Eligible:
Braeden Kressler - Was never a guy who was going to make it. He's a long term play at best.
So when you really take a deeper look at it, we only have 5 prospects that are even eligible to participate in the tournament. 3 of those 5 never had a chance even if they lit their leagues up. Minton and Voit were always going to be outside options, and they did a very good job at putting themselves in that conversation. But it really just goes to show that teams like Canada and USA are pretty well decided in the summer, not in December.
We also have only selected twice in the top 2 rounds of the last 2 drafts, and both of those picks were outside of the 1st round. So all things considered we have done really well with the limited picks we have made. Nothing to be upset about at all
Looking at our last 2 drafts, we have selected only 8 players combined between the 2 drafts:
2021:
Matthew Knies - Not eligible
Ty Voit- He arguably got snubbed in the selection process, but regardless looks like a very good prospect despite being omitted from the US roster.
Slava Peksa - Not eligible. Not to mention I believe he was drafted as an "overager" or a 2nd time eligible.
2022:
Fraser Minton - Eligible, but was always in tough to make a stacked Canada squad. This team has been referenced as best team since the lockout 2005 squad. Having a great season in Kamloops in a secondary roll.
Nick Moldenhauer - Same as above, but he realistically never had a shot. Not sure I can rememeber the last USHL player to play for Team Canada. Still tracking well as a prospect.
Dennis Hildeby - Not eligible, drafted as an overager. Looks great in SHL
Nikita Grebenkin - Eligible, but Russia is not. Likely would have been in consideration.
Brandon Lisowsky - Eligible. Same as Minton and Moldenhauer. Very unlikely he would ever have made this team given Canada's depth. Tracking great for a 7th rounder.
Undrafted Eligible:
Braeden Kressler - Was never a guy who was going to make it. He's a long term play at best.
So when you really take a deeper look at it, we only have 5 prospects that are even eligible to participate in the tournament. 3 of those 5 never had a chance even if they lit their leagues up. Minton and Voit were always going to be outside options, and they did a very good job at putting themselves in that conversation. But it really just goes to show that teams like Canada and USA are pretty well decided in the summer, not in December.
We also have only selected twice in the top 2 rounds of the last 2 drafts, and both of those picks were outside of the 1st round. So all things considered we have done really well with the limited picks we have made. Nothing to be upset about at all
To further add to my above post, Montreal has selected 20 players over the last 2 drafts. 7 of which inside the top 2 rounds of their drafts. Really not surprising to see them have this much representation.
Our draft strategy has inherently had to be different then teams like Montreal. Their selections are going to be higher in the draft and the decisions are based on finding the best player available amongst a pool of higher projectability players.
Our picks are less projectable given where we've been drafting in recent years. Our draft philosophy has been primarily about finding value that exceeds the selection position. I can't think of one player we've selected in the last 2 drafts who has tracked worse then where they were selected. For the most part all of Dubas' drafts have been this way. We have managed to find value in a ton of our selections. I used to think 6th and 7th rounders were just throw away's. But Kyle Dubas and his staff has me watching to the end of every draft nowadays. They have been excellent.
Our picks are less projectable given where we've been drafting in recent years. Our draft philosophy has been primarily about finding value that exceeds the selection position. I can't think of one player we've selected in the last 2 drafts who has tracked worse then where they were selected. For the most part all of Dubas' drafts have been this way. We have managed to find value in a ton of our selections. I used to think 6th and 7th rounders were just throw away's. But Kyle Dubas and his staff has me watching to the end of every draft nowadays. They have been excellent.
SeaOfBlue
The Passion That Unites Us All
- Aug 1, 2013
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NHL teams treat it like that too, but they just deserve to suck at drafting.
My philosophy is that you treat a 4th-7th round pick like you want to trade it for a top 100 pick straight up. You are hunting for top 100 talents. Too many teams use 7th rounders to draft 7th round talent when there is clearly a lot of top 100 talent still available. Especially out of Europe. Sure, once in a while you may hit on a Klingberg, but you are going to get a whole bunch of nobodies in there too and at the same time you have just let Panarin, Bobrovsky, Zaitsev, Kuzmenko, etc. go undrafted... 4 times.
That is why I have 4 Russian-league OA's on my late-round list this year, and some of them may very well end up going top 100. Sometimes an OA comes out of nowhere, which is fine, but then you sure as heck make sure that they do not go undrafted again... Especially in the late rounds.
Lisowsky, for example, would be a top 100 pick this year if he went UD. I had him top 100 last year though. Not sure Grebyonkin would be but I guess he would have been around a 5th round pick so we are at least breaking even... which is better than we can say for most of our Russian picks.
I am Canadian
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TheBeastCoast
Registered User
Anyone care to take a shot at ranking our non-Marlies prospects? I was reading the 10-ten per team thread on the main board and for the life of me I can't make a list that IMO accurately captures the reality of our pool.
IMO there's essentially Knies, and then two very flat pools, one of non-Marlies tracking well enough that if it weren't for their lack of pedigree there's defensible top 6/4 upside, one of Marlies tracking well enough that if there weren't so many of them there's defensible everyday NHLer upside. I don't think I've ever seen it like this
IMO there's essentially Knies, and then two very flat pools, one of non-Marlies tracking well enough that if it weren't for their lack of pedigree there's defensible top 6/4 upside, one of Marlies tracking well enough that if there weren't so many of them there's defensible everyday NHLer upside. I don't think I've ever seen it like this
TheDoldrums
Registered User
Niemela and Minten are in the next tier after Knies and clearly more valuable than the others. After that it gets tricky.
I don't have much confidence in ranking guys like Moldenhauer/Voit/Hirvonen/Grebyonkin/Lisowsky. They all seem more like longshots to make NHL impacts, even though you can make individual cases for them and why they might make it. Our goalies in Europe are doing pretty well, but even tougher to value goalie prospects properly.
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The Podium
Registered User
1. Knies
2. Niemela
3. Minten
4. Voit
5. Tverberg
6. Hirvonen
7. Hildeby
8. Moldenhauer
9. Miettinen
10. Akhtyamov
HM: Lisowsky
*Amirov would be #2
Haven’t had a chance to watch him much so purely stat watching but is Minten’s even strength scoring a bit concerning?
Would be nice to see Niemela and Roni producing more as well. I know there is some context to them not producing as expected but it’s still a touch worrying.
Would be nice to see Niemela and Roni producing more as well. I know there is some context to them not producing as expected but it’s still a touch worrying.
I think Grebyonkin deserves some love with how he’s producing in the KHL has a U20 player.
ULF_55
Moderator
Yaroslav Likhachev is a teammate.
Might be doing almost as well as he did in the Q. Okay, not quite, but maybe surprising?
Yaroslav Likhachev Hockey Stats and Profile at hockeydb.com
Statistics of Yaroslav Likhachev, a hockey player from Yaroslav, Russia born Sep 2 2001 who was active from 2018 to 2023.
www.hockeydb.com
Yaroslav Likhachev Hockey Stats and Profile at hockeydb.com
Statistics of Yaroslav Likhachev, a hockey player from Yaroslav, Russia born Sep 2 2001 who was active from 2018 to 2023.
www.hockeydb.com
Magic Man
Registered User
1. Matty Knies
2. Fraser Minten
3. Topi Niemela
4. Ryan Tverberg
5. Roni Hirvonen
6. Dennis Hildeby
7. Artur Ahktyamov
8. Ty Voit
9. Nicholas Moldenhauer
10. Veeti Miettinen
2. Fraser Minten
3. Topi Niemela
4. Ryan Tverberg
5. Roni Hirvonen
6. Dennis Hildeby
7. Artur Ahktyamov
8. Ty Voit
9. Nicholas Moldenhauer
10. Veeti Miettinen
BertCorbeau
F*ck cancer - RIP Fugu and Buffaloed
See, this is the exact sentiment that I was getting at, especially when it comes to Voit/Lisowsky vs. Minten, and that Kressler belongs on that list. If you scrape away draft position/expectation and set the comparative aspect aside and just look at how each individual prospects projects on their own merits, then compare those projections... it gets really really murky.
I'm not sure how you argue against Voit having 1st line upside (albeit very boom bust), and Lisowsky high end top 6 with less of a bust factor, and then I don't know how you argue that Minten represents a much better prospect. Safer? Yes. More unique skillset in our system? Yes. Clearly better prospect? I don't know. As Chazz pointed out the even strength scoring is severely lacking for Minten. After his camp I'm not worried about his ability to translate to the show, but it does make me question his upside. Last year Kressler had 3G 10A off the power play in 28 games. Minten currently has 4+4 in 22.
Martin Skoula
Registered User
- Oct 18, 2017
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The ES production is concerning but if you look at his skills in isolation, having the IQ and physical skillset to produce with high skill players is more projectable for us than it would be for Arizona. Having the defensive IQ to pick up our systems quickly on the Marlies and contribute right away on the PK down there is an isolation job that moves up his development schedule for our specific situation.
I get what you mean though, it's hard to quantify the value of lottery ticket prospects vs guys who are likely to fill a useful job for us within a year or two on an ELC.
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