Prospect Info: Marlies/Prospects Thread - 2021/22

[Stringer Bell]

Surprised to see how well Brazeau has played. Not anything crazy but still.

 

[SprDaVE]

NCAA teams are still playing. At least the good ones are anyways. I think some of the crappy guys are starting to sign but the worthwhile NCAA guys are still playing.

Same applies for Euros. It usually picks up in April. That is when KHL contracts expire, and that is when NCAA tournaments are usually done.

Yep. I'm sure things will shake out over the next few months, especially with the KHL ending a lot sooner than previously scheduled. I still think there could be a couple CHL overagers/free agents that could be interesting to add, more likely on AHL deals though.

A couple CHL players that would be interesting to me:

Noah Laaouan
Bailey Peach
Vincent Sevigny (Leafs rookie camp)
Brett Budgell (Leafs rookie camp)

I think James Hardy (Leafs rookie camp) is still eligible for one more drafted before he's a UFA basically. He'd be someone I'd easily throw an AHL contract at.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Yep. I'm sure things will shake out over the next few months, especially with the KHL ending a lot sooner than previously scheduled. I still think there could be a couple CHL overagers/free agents that could be interesting to add, more likely on AHL deals though.

A couple CHL players that would be interesting to me:

Noah Laaouan
Bailey Peach
Vincent Sevigny (Leafs rookie camp)
Brett Budgell (Leafs rookie camp)

I think James Hardy (Leafs rookie camp) is still eligible for one more drafted before he's a UFA basically. He'd be someone I'd easily throw an AHL contract at.

I have 3/4 out there for AHL contracts (all except Peach; he is not a bad CHL player but I think he is more of a CIS guy than someone who can work his way up through the AHL), but their seasons won't be done for a while too. Some guys like Calisti have already signed AHL deals for next year, but most will come April-June themselves.

We will have a lot of AHL contract prospects to replace (on the Growlers especially). Douglas, Chyzowski, Petruzzelli, McMann, and Kapcheck are the only ones signed and I don't see any of the younger guys getting brought back. Kopacka, Michaelis, Suomela, Ho-Sang, and Blandisi are worth another AHL contract, but other than 24 year old Kopacka, they are all in their later 20's now.

 

[stickty111]

Voit with a hat trick through 2 periods

 

[Frostitute]

Voit with a hat trick through 2 periods

Has seriously stepped it up thos yr with 62pts in 49gp so far. Normally not so impressive at this stage but color me pink since he just missed a full year of development.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

It is clear the Gogolev is too good for the ECHL level, at least offensively.

Main thing is still his effort level. That is what could hold him back from his potential.

I'd also like to see him add more power to his game. He has the size for it and it will help him find other ways to contribute than just using his shot. He should be trying to become another Bunting, because a lot of his skills can easily get to that level (if they are not already there) and even if his defensive game does not amount to anything special, there will be enough there offensively for him to become an NHL player.

A lot of that just comes down to effort though. We need to challenge him to bring that more at both ends.

 

[justloveleafs]

You either have the passion or not. I cannot relate to googleman. But he probably doesn't want it all that much.

With his size and skills, pffft, the world could be his oyster. Its like owning a relaxed 100 mph fastball.

Its why I will wince if we trade Matt Knies to obtain goaltending.

 

[justloveleafs]

You either have the passion or not. I cannot relate to googleman. But he probably doesn't want it all that much.

With his size and skills, pffft, the world could be his oyster. Its like have a relaxed 100 mph fastball.

Its why I will wince if we trade Matt Knies to obtain goaltending.

 

[Knies iT]

Gogolev is a non-prospect. Was hype voted way too high on the board rankings.

Only skates in one direction, effort level is abysmal, floats for 90% of the game. His shot can be something but he needs a lot of time and space to make it dangerous. There's not any other part of his game that looks pro.

 

[Fogelhund]

Was Duszak playing D or Forward today?

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Was Duszak playing D or Forward today?

Forward, but we have nobody else right now.

We also played with 7 dedicated defensemen. So technically we had 8 defensemen in the lineup today.

Why the Leafs don't send Clifford down right now is beyond me. We don't need his butt in the Leafs pressbox right now, and at least he is a body. Can't be worse than some of the ECHL plugs we are putting in right now if he got that fancy new two-year deal.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Gogolev is a non-prospect. Was hype voted way too high on the board rankings.

Only skates in one direction, effort level is abysmal, floats for 90% of the game. His shot can be something but he needs a lot of time and space to make it dangerous. There's not any other part of his game that looks pro.

I think it is a little bit early to say that, but IDK if he should have been given an ELC.

There is something there with Gogolev, but it is going to take some sculpting and proper development. I don't think the Growlers are doing anything for him short of maybe giving him some offensive confidence back, and that is better than how the Marlies were using him. He also gets to learn something from guys like O'Brien.

Keefe put guys like him on the 4th line to learn defensive responsibility, hard-work, and consistency. Moore tried to do the same thing, but Keefe had Colin Greening, Garrett Wilson, Josh Jooris, Tyler Gaudet, etc. surrounding those guys. Gabriel, Clune, Kopacka, Clifford, and Douglas are not going to teach Gogolev anything except maybe how to be a dump-and-chase plug, and that is not what Gogolev is suited to do nor what we want him to become.

Right now that is the difference. That 4th line is useless outside of being a dump and chase energy line. It is not teaching him anything, and it is neutering everything that he is good at too. It is not going to help Douglas or Kopacka in the long run either.

We need our prospects (Gogolev included) to play with guys like Suomela, McMann, and Michaelis; not (just) Clune. McMann and Michaelis are guys who play up their solid but limited skillsets with pure effort, speed, and energy. Suomela is more of the cerebral, well-rounded guy who knows how to leverage his higher end skillset to contribute at both ends. Throw in a little bit of pure grit from Clifford/Clune, and maybe a good pure defensive guy like Greening/Gaudet (I don't think the Marlies have anyone on their roster like that right now), and you are teaching these guys how to contribute in a variety of ways.

That is how we transformed pure offensive guys into the well-rounded guys over the past few years. Engvall and Moore were pure offense too before they made it to the Marlies. Look at what they are now.

 

[Knies iT]

I think it is a little bit early to say that, but IDK if he should have been given an ELC.

There is something there with Gogolev, but it is going to take some sculpting and proper development. I don't think the Growlers are doing anything for him short of maybe giving him some offensive confidence back, and that is better than how the Marlies were using him. He also gets to learn something from guys like O'Brien.

Keefe put guys like him on the 4th line to learn defensive responsibility, hard-work, and consistency. Moore tried to do the same thing, but Keefe had Colin Greening, Garrett Wilson, Josh Jooris, Tyler Gaudet, etc. surrounding those guys. Gabriel, Clune, Kopacka, Clifford, and Douglas are not going to teach Gogolev anything except maybe how to be a dump-and-chase plug, and that is not what Gogolev is suited to do nor what we want him to become.

Right now that is the difference. That 4th line is useless outside of being a dump and chase energy line. It is not teaching him anything, and it is neutering everything that he is good at too. It is not going to help Douglas or Kopacka in the long run either.

We need our prospects (Gogolev included) to play with guys like Suomela, McMann, and Michaelis; not (just) Clune. McMann and Michaelis are guys who play up their solid but limited skillsets with pure effort, speed, and energy. Suomela is more of the cerebral, well-rounded guy who knows how to leverage his higher end skillset to contribute at both ends. Throw in a little bit of pure grit from Clifford/Clune, and maybe a good pure defensive guy like Greening/Gaudet (I don't think the Marlies have anyone on their roster like that right now), and you are teaching these guys how to contribute in a variety of ways.

That is how we transformed pure offensive guys into the well-rounded guys over the past few years. Engvall and Moore were pure offense too before they made it to the Marlies. Look at what they are now.

I could be wrong but it seems like an unrealistic amount of work.

Engvall was a key cog on a Calder Cup winning shutdown line with Greening and Gauthier in his rookie season. One of the most effective lines in the entire playoffs, even dominant at times, not to mention his straight line skating was pro-caliber before the Leafs dev. staff touched him. Moore's puck skills, skating, and effort level were all significantly ahead out of college - but to your point, they definitely molded him into a Motte type through a lot of development.

Gogolev is a naturally cerebral player who lets the game come to him instead of creating chances through effort. So is his offense really that special, to the point where if he incorporates more effort and defensive reliability, that it'll translate to being a depth scoring option in the NHL? Again I don't think so. Poor shot selection, takes low percentage bad angle shots often, forces passes and lacks the IQ to improve much there. Not to mention his skating is far from a strength.

We'll see but he's running out of time.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

I could be wrong but it seems like an unrealistic amount of work.

Engvall was a key cog on a Calder Cup winning shutdown line with Greening and Gauthier in his rookie season. One of the most effective lines in the entire playoffs, even dominant at times, not to mention his straight line skating was pro-caliber before the Leafs dev. staff touched him. Moore's puck skills, skating, and effort level were all significantly ahead out of college - but to your point, they definitely molded him into a Motte type through a lot of development.

Gogolev is a naturally cerebral player who lets the game come to him instead of creating chances through effort. So is his offense really that special, to the point where if he incorporates more effort and defensive reliability, that it'll translate to being a depth scoring option in the NHL? Again I don't think so. Poor shot selection, takes low percentage bad angle shots often, forces passes and lacks the IQ to improve much there. Not to mention his skating is far from a strength.

We'll see but he's running out of time.

That is a key part of my point. Engvall wasn't a shutdown guy before he came to the Marlies. He was an offensive guy who had amazing speed and size, and a fairly good set of tools, and we developed him into a shutdown guy (he learned a lot from playing with Gauthier and Greening, who were excellent shutdown guys themselves).

T. Moore did the same; he started on the 4th line, developed a defensive game and added some grit (he is now much better than Motte). In fact, in many ways, he was very similar to Gogolev: Cerebral, purely offensive, not physical, average skater. The only difference is he was a playmaker who could shoot while Gogolev is a sniper who can make plays.

The diminutive center, has been grabbing attention in the late summer, after being invited to participate in the Leaf ‘Rookie Camp’ as a free agent walk on that was ready to return for a senior season in the NCAA. He has showed very good chemistry with Adam Books, Mitch Marner in the above mentioned camp and now Dmytro Timashov in his first game of the London Rookie Tournament, whom he connected with on the team’s first goal. Moore has a longer road ahead of him, armed with a three-year entry-level contract, he must work his way through the lower tiers of pro to earn opportunity and overcome his size disadvantage. The California natives’ biggest asset is his understanding of how to position himself to create offence both with and without the puck. He seems to have a unique ability to create separation from defenders giving him time space to make solid possession choices. He is not the most physical players and not the fleetest of foot, but he is working on adding mass to his frame so that he can handle the stronger talents he will engage in pro. To maximize his talents, he will need to be given offensive roles and that could prove to be difficult with the amount of forward talent the organization currently contains

That was T. Moore's scouting report when he started with the Marlies at the same age Gogolev is right now. This was his scouting report three years later:

Moore all but locked up a bottom-six winger spot on the Maple Leafs for 2019-20. His play at the end of the season was strong, but he truly excelled in the playoffs and was noticeable for his speed, heavy forechecking, and physicality against the feisty Bruins. No one who watches him play is worried abut his height. He was heads above the competition and his teammates when he returned to the AHL for a handful of playoff games. With an old-school coach behind the bench, the sky is the limit for the versatile winger. Hayden Soboleski

I think if you surround Gogolev with the same kind of influences, he can do the same as those two. His offensive tool kit is not enough on its own, just like it was not enough for Moore and Engvall, but it is enough if he can develops the other parts of his game to compliment it. His skating was average when he came here, and it has improved a little bit. Still room to grow further, but I am not too worried about his skating development. It is just a matter of whether he can buy-in and the Leafs can develop that niche for him to make it to the NHL.

FTR, it is the same for SDA too. He is starting to use his shot more, but that won't be enough. His skating still needs some more work, and he still needs to figure out the niche that will get him to the NHL. His playmaking skill is not enough, as excellent as it is.

 

[aingefan]

Looks like Joey A was a one man wrecking crew yesterday. In on both goals, and had the SO winner.
Hutch 35/37 and 2/2 in SO.

 

[Knies iT]

That is a key part of my point. Engvall wasn't a shutdown guy before he came to the Marlies. He was an offensive guy who had amazing speed and size, and a fairly good set of tools, and we developed him into a shutdown guy (he learned a lot from playing with Gauthier and Greening, who were excellent shutdown guys themselves).

T. Moore did the same; he started on the 4th line, developed a defensive game and added some grit (he is now much better than Motte). In fact, in many ways, he was very similar to Gogolev: Cerebral, purely offensive, not physical, average skater. The only difference is he was a playmaker who could shoot while Gogolev is a sniper who can make plays.



That was T. Moore's scouting report when he started with the Marlies at the same age Gogolev is right now. This was his scouting report three years later:



I think if you surround Gogolev with the same kind of influences, he can do the same as those two. His offensive tool kit is not enough on its own, just like it was not enough for Moore and Engvall, but it is enough if he can develops the other parts of his game to compliment it. His skating was average when he came here, and it has improved a little bit. Still room to grow further, but I am not too worried about his skating development. It is just a matter of whether he can buy-in and the Leafs can develop that niche for him to make it to the NHL.

FTR, it is the same for SDA too. He is starting to use his shot more, but that won't be enough. His skating still needs some more work, and he still needs to figure out the niche that will get him to the NHL. His playmaking skill is not enough, as excellent as it is.

Engvall played 10 regular season games before that cup run. Gogolev is already 40+ games into his tenure and IMO has regressed in some aspects, shown no improvement in others. Engvall became that key defensive player with far less time investment because he had the tools to be molded in that way.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Engvall played 10 regular season games before that cup run. Gogolev is already 40+ games into his tenure and IMO has regressed in some aspects, shown no improvement in others. Engvall became that key defensive player with far less time investment because he had the tools to be molded in that way.

I think a lot of what you are seeing right now is complete mismanagement of him though, which is what I have been saying.

He has spent much of this year on a dump-and-chase energy line with a lot of lower skill grinders (no offense to Douglas, but that is really all he is right now and all he will be if we continue surrounding him with guys like Clune all of the time). He was not learning anything, and he was not utilized properly. In his stretch of games last year, when he was at least being used in a role that was suited for his skill set, he was a PPG player. Maybe he was not learning anything, but he was clearly useful and skilled enough to earn an ELC.

There is no reason why Gogolev could not develop into the same player that Moore has become with the right people around him and the right development plan. Engvall is somewhat of a different beast (6'5", long reach, great skating ability, etc.), but Moore was a 5'10, 175lbs perimeter playmaking winger-center who was a lot like SDA when he first got here. Great hands, playmaking, and intelligence, but barely an average skater, no physicality, and very one-dimensional. Swap out of the fact that Gogolev is more of a sniper than a playmaker (and is as much of a playmaker as Moore was a sniper), and you have more or less the same set of tools in a package that is far more suited for the power role (6'1", 200lbs) than Moore was.

My concerns are less about Gogolev's package and more about whether G. Moore and the rest of the Marlies staff can develop a guy like him properly. If Keefe was still in charge, I like Gogolev's chances of at least knocking on the door like Timashov did. Moore, for the most part, hasn't developed anyone. Sandin, Anderson, Robertson, and Liljegren were already well on their way before he got there. He has made his goaltender's lives a living hell, but I guess they have somewhat developed too (although I am not sure he has anything to do with that more than Toivunen and Elkin). Kral/Rubins/SDA are the best he can hang his hat on right now, and the best you are looking at right now is maybe Filip Kral steadily making his way up to a bottom pairing kind of guy.

 

[hockeywiz542]

Former Toronto Maple Leafs forward Kurtis Gabriel gets bloodied up in a fight with Mathieu Olivier.

 

[Legion34]

Former Toronto Maple Leafs forward Kurtis Gabriel gets bloodied up in a fight with Mathieu Olivier.

Kept swinging. Good for him

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Ovchinnikov is officially in Toronto, so he should have an opportunity for big minutes with the Marlies right now. They are lacking bodies.

 

[Twine Tickler]

Ovchinnikov is officially in Toronto, so he should have an opportunity for big minutes with the Marlies right now. They are lacking bodies.

I think the original plan was to get some time with our strength and conditioning staff before they let him loose on the ice. Maybe the lack of bodies will accelerate this timeline. Happy to hear he made it over. Hopefully he sticks around next year as well.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

I think the original plan was to get some time with our strength and conditioning staff before they let him loose on the ice. Maybe the lack of bodies will accelerate this timeline. Happy to hear he made it over. Hopefully he sticks around next year as well.

But he only just arrived... So he hasn't been getting strength and conditioning time yet. Probably was doing some over in Russia, but that is not the same. He was probably just held up because of the difficulty for travelling from Russia.

I don't think we give him much time to adjust. Marlies play Thursday. That should have given him 3 or 4 days to get up to speed, and Thursday should be his first game.

If he is good enough to play on a poor KHL team's top 6, he should be good enough to contribute relatively soon in a sheltered AHL top 6 role with the right support around him.

 

[kb]

But he only just arrived... So he hasn't been getting strength and conditioning time yet. Probably was doing some over in Russia, but that is not the same. He was probably just held up because of the difficulty for travelling from Russia.

I don't think we give him much time to adjust. Marlies play Thursday. That should have given him 3 or 4 days to get up to speed, and Thursday should be his first game.

If he is good enough to play on a poor KHL team's top 6, he should be good enough to contribute relatively soon in a sheltered AHL top 6 role with the right support around him.

Hopefully he can make up for all the lost development time.

 

[Twine Tickler]

But he only just arrived... So he hasn't been getting strength and conditioning time yet. Probably was doing some over in Russia, but that is not the same. He was probably just held up because of the difficulty for travelling from Russia.

I don't think we give him much time to adjust. Marlies play Thursday. That should have given him 3 or 4 days to get up to speed, and Thursday should be his first game.

If he is good enough to play on a poor KHL team's top 6, he should be good enough to contribute relatively soon in a sheltered AHL top 6 role with the right support around him.

I agree, I'd just let him run loose. But I just thought I read something when he signed indicating they wanted to ease him into things. Hopefully not. I cannot wait to watch him play

 

[daethfromabove1979]

MHL Goalie update:

Akhtyamov and Peksa are now both on the Irbis MHL team. Akhtyamov started the last few games of the regular season and then the first game of the playoffs, he lost that game and let in 4 goals. Peksa then started the second game and won (shutout) and then won the third game too (stopped 22 of 23 shots). Since Peksa is winning, I would expect him to keep getting the starts going forward.