Prospect Info: Marlies/Prospects Thread - 2021/22 PART II

[hockeynorth]

Better prospects then him have spent time in the AHL. Don't see why he would all of a sudden be granted a spot. If he deserves it then awesome, otherwise nothing wrong with some time in the AHL especially if he signs with us after this season.

But I mean for him as a person, he might prefer continuing his education as opposed to playing in the AHL. This is a person we're talking about, sometimes it's about more than earning an NHL spot as far as signing goes.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

But I mean for him as a person, he might prefer continuing his education as opposed to playing in the AHL. This is a person we're talking about, sometimes it's about more than earning an NHL spot as far as signing goes.

It is possible sure. The vast majority of hockey players at this levels dream is to be a professional hockey player though and not to graduate from college. I got no problem if he decides to sign after this season or play another....but he shouldn't get to his junior season.

 

[hockeynorth]

It is possible sure. The vast majority of hockey players at this levels dream is to be a professional hockey player though and not to graduate from college. I got no problem if he decides to sign after this season or play another....but he shouldn't get to his junior season.

I doubt he's there beyond next season, but I can't see him leaving after this one unless he's guaranteed NHL time

 

[TheBeastCoast]

I doubt he's there beyond next season, but I can't see him leaving after this one unless he's guaranteed NHL time

I really don't see why you would think that. Just seems like an assumption you are making on his behalf. He just as easily might want to get started on his pro career. Reality is he likely spends time in the AHL whenever he turns pro, he moves the timeline up on his NHL debut the earlier he signs.

 

[hockeynorth]

I really don't see why you would think that. Just seems like an assumption you are making on his behalf. He just as easily might want to get started on his pro career. Reality is he likely spends time in the AHL whenever he turns pro, he moves the timeline up on his NHL debut the earlier he signs.

Amirov will only come over with NHL time and Robby will be chomping at the bit, he has no clear path next year. IF he comes, it'd be great

 

[francis246]

I think trading any one of Robertson/Amirov/Knies would be a mistake TBH. We need top 6 talent down the left side at minimal costs going forward. I suspect our answer is already within that group of prospects.

I am actually not overly in favor of moving any of our big prospects TBH. I think the best prospect I'd move is maybe Hirvonen TBH. He has value leaguewide likely, and between Matthews/JT and Kampf we are set 1-3 for this year and next. Not to mention, it is highly unlikely that Kampf see's much of a raise thereafter. If so, it would likely be proportionate to the cap at that time. Hirvonen is unlikely to be a 3C at the NHL level within the next 3 years. Or at least not on a cup contending team. To me, he is a very expendable prospect that should hold moderate value.

I really do believe we are about to enter the golden era of this core. I pray to god that this core group can get past the first round this year. Do enough in the playoffs to justify not making a move and hopefully keep Kyle in charge. I think this next wave of prospects is about 2 seasons away from being everyday guys. No matter the pain that occurs in between now and then, I desperately want to see that team come to life. Imagine Matthews/JT/Willy/Marner/Sandin/Mo/Lilly with all that ELC top shelf talent. It would be a joke

I get what you’re saying but I get why other fan bases mock us. Because of our lack of success we desperately cling to the idea of holding onto all prospects. Fan bases that have won will tell you they’d trade prospects over and over for that cup. The fact of the matter is, IF (& this is a big IF) there is a can’t miss player that makes you an immediate threat to win the Stanley a cup there literally should be no prospect that is off the table. And I’d expect Dubas to make the play for that player.

just look at the most recent winners and the premiums they paid to get the players they needed to win. Coleman cost Tampa a first and Nolan Foote. Another first round pick for Barclay Goodrow. They then went out and got Savard for a first the following year.

that’s why you draft well, not so that every player you pick becomes an NHLer but so that you have assets to move or some of those players graduate to your roster. I know people will bitch at me for this post and say I don’t know anything but the proof is in the pudding. I don’t think Tampa, Pittsburgh and all those other teams regret mortgaging the future. The key isn’t the first rounders. The key is drafting exceptionally well in the 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th round so you feel comfortable moving your top prospects and 1st round picks. It’s unrealistic to expect all our prospects to be Maple Leafs, it just doesn’t work that way. It would be nice but the reality is one or two might get moved & hopefully if they do it’s for the right piece (s)

 

[LeafChief]

 

[Prominence]

Ryan Tverberg is what Sens fans want ty.ler bou.cher to be.

 

[showtime8]

I get what you’re saying but I get why other fan bases mock us. Because of our lack of success we desperately cling to the idea of holding onto all prospects. Fan bases that have won will tell you they’d trade prospects over and over for that cup. The fact of the matter is, IF (& this is a big IF) there is a can’t miss player that makes you an immediate threat to win the Stanley a cup there literally should be no prospect that is off the table. And I’d expect Dubas to make the play for that player.

just look at the most recent winners and the premiums they paid to get the players they needed to win. Coleman cost Tampa a first and Nolan Foote. Another first round pick for Barclay Goodrow. They then went out and got Savard for a first the following year.

that’s why you draft well, not so that every player you pick becomes an NHLer but so that you have assets to move or some of those players graduate to your roster. I know people will bitch at me for this post and say I don’t know anything but the proof is in the pudding. I don’t think Tampa, Pittsburgh and all those other teams regret mortgaging the future. The key isn’t the first rounders. The key is drafting exceptionally well in the 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th round so you feel comfortable moving your top prospects and 1st round picks. It’s unrealistic to expect all our prospects to be Maple Leafs, it just doesn’t work that way. It would be nice but the reality is one or two might get moved & hopefully if they do it’s for the right piece (s)

The other element of this is that the pro scouting staff is able to bring in cheap free agents on an annual basis. You can draft well this year or last year, but those players in the 3rd - 5th rounds aren't anticipated to hit the big league clubs for 3 years.

You need to be able to bring in a guy like Bunting, Kase, Simmonds or Spezza on cheap deals to strengthen the line-up.

I'm in the mindset that it would be okay to trade draft capital, but you need to get some sort of cost certainty going forward. It can't just be for an expiring dman or forward. Find a team that is going to struggle for the next couple years and pay the price. Timo Maier, Tyler Toffoli, Dominik Kubalik, Jake McCabe, Esa Lindell, Jacob Chychryn, even Connor Brown.

 

[francis246]

The other element of this is that the pro scouting staff is able to bring in cheap free agents on an annual basis. You can draft well this year or last year, but those players in the 3rd - 5th rounds aren't anticipated to hit the big league clubs for 3 years.

You need to be able to bring in a guy like Bunting, Kase, Simmonds or Spezza on cheap deals to strengthen the line-up.

I'm in the mindset that it would be okay to trade draft capital, but you need to get some sort of cost certainty going forward. It can't just be for an expiring dman or forward. Find a team that is going to struggle for the next couple years and pay the price. Timo Maier, Tyler Toffoli, Dominik Kubalik, Jake McCabe, Esa Lindell, Jacob Chychryn, even Connor Brown.

Exactly tampa got two years out of Coleman and Goodrow. They got half a year out of Savard but honestly it was well worth it. At some point if we want to be a true cup contender we have to make deals that hurt a bit when you see them but you know it's going to be worth it in the end

 

[Leafs1991]

I get what you’re saying but I get why other fan bases mock us. Because of our lack of success we desperately cling to the idea of holding onto all prospects. Fan bases that have won will tell you they’d trade prospects over and over for that cup. The fact of the matter is, IF (& this is a big IF) there is a can’t miss player that makes you an immediate threat to win the Stanley a cup there literally should be no prospect that is off the table. And I’d expect Dubas to make the play for that player.

just look at the most recent winners and the premiums they paid to get the players they needed to win. Coleman cost Tampa a first and Nolan Foote. Another first round pick for Barclay Goodrow. They then went out and got Savard for a first the following year.

that’s why you draft well, not so that every player you pick becomes an NHLer but so that you have assets to move or some of those players graduate to your roster. I know people will bitch at me for this post and say I don’t know anything but the proof is in the pudding. I don’t think Tampa, Pittsburgh and all those other teams regret mortgaging the future. The key isn’t the first rounders. The key is drafting exceptionally well in the 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th round so you feel comfortable moving your top prospects and 1st round picks. It’s unrealistic to expect all our prospects to be Maple Leafs, it just doesn’t work that way. It would be nice but the reality is one or two might get moved & hopefully if they do it’s for the right piece (s)

You're not wrong. The issue with that line of thinking is that Tampa and Pitts and other teams that load up already had some playoff success. This team has yet to make it past the 1st round.

 

[Kiwi]

Exactly tampa got two years out of Coleman and Goodrow. They got half a year out of Savard but honestly it was well worth it. At some point if we want to be a true cup contender we have to make deals that hurt a bit when you see them but you know it's going to be worth it in the end

We've traded multiple 1st round picks, prospects and almost every pick we have for the last 2 seasons

For what?

When I invest in something i expect a return and we've got absolutely nothing for half a decade of investment in this team

This team needs to prove it's worth investing in first

 

[Thornbury]

Exactly tampa got two years out of Coleman and Goodrow. They got half a year out of Savard but honestly it was well worth it. At some point if we want to be a true cup contender we have to make deals that hurt a bit when you see them but you know it's going to be worth it in the end

That's what we thought about the Foligno trade....

 

[francis246]

You're not wrong. The issue with that line of thinking is that Tampa and Pitts and other teams that load up already had some playoff success. This team has yet to make it past the 1st round.

more reason to make those trades. You can’t sit and hope forever man. Listen I’m not saying trade all our prospects but trading 1 for a guy with term who can help your team isn’t going to kill us. If it’s the right fit

 

[francis246]

That's what we thought about the Foligno trade....

And? That doesn’t mean you don’t make that trade again. They missed on that opportunity, sucks, gotta try again.

 

[francis246]

We've traded multiple 1st round picks, prospects and almost every pick we have for the last 2 seasons

For what?

When I invest in something i expect a return and we've got absolutely nothing for half a decade of investment in this team

This team needs to prove it's worth investing in first

nah, you go back and do it again. Until it works out, which it will eventually. And trust your amateur and pro scouts to keep finding bargain value UFA’s and late round picks

 

[Kiwi]

nah, you go back and do it again. Until it works out, which it will eventually. And trust your amateur and pro scouts to keep finding bargain value UFA’s and late round picks

Ever heard the one about doing the same thing over again and expecting different results?

 

[francis246]

Ever heard the one about doing the same thing over again and expecting different results?

Yeah that’s what we’ve been doing, spending assets on non impactful players and not getting past the first round. I’m talking about getting impactful players who will actually make a difference and help you get passed that first round hump and into a long deep run not just 1 round. If you think we are going to graduate 7 prospects in the next two years while having a bunch of guys signed to deals idk what to tell you. It’s not gonna happen. This team is the real deal this year, no better year than to find that impact forward or dman with 2 or 3 years of term and bring him in.

 

[Apex Predator]

I think you trade one of Robertson/Amirov for a left winger with term this year. You have Bunting on a cheap contract. You keep Keefoot for next year and now have the left wing with term.
You’ve got your top 9 pretty much set for next year.
Player with term - Matthews - Marner
Bunting - Tavares - Nylander
Kerfoot - Kampf - ?
Anderson - ? - Simmonds

In two years times the one you didn’t trade between Robertson/Amirov hopefully can step in and maybe we keep one of the other current left wingers. Also might have Knies ready by that time too.

Cap is a big thing espcially with the uncertainty of Campbell and what he could get. To make this work we would need to probably move out Ritchie and Mrazek.

 

[LeafChief]

 

[LeafChief]

 

[Leafs at Knight]

Knies 2A so far, puts him at 20 in 20.

 

[thinkblue]

 

[Leafs1991]

more reason to make those trades. You can’t sit and hope forever man. Listen I’m not saying trade all our prospects but trading 1 for a guy with term who can help your team isn’t going to kill us. If it’s the right fit

I know, but I'd like to see the team make it past the 1st round than trading for pieces that aren't needed yet. If they acquire a piece that can be around long term then thats a bit different.

 

[francis246]

I know, but I'd like to see the team make it past the 1st round than trading for pieces that aren't needed yet. If they acquire a piece that can be around long term then thats a bit different.

I hear you, prove it first. But the thing is, we might need to acquire a guy who can help us achieve that goal and more. So it really comes down to how bad does management want to win. And it should be a resounding damn bad they want to win.