Marc Bergevin: At the End o'da Day

[Kriss E]

How do we know this for a fact? Wouldn't surprise me in the least if Molson was consulting hockey people on an ad hoc basis, especially on critical decisions. If Molson won't fire Bergevin on account of the remaining term on his contract, then why would he hire someone else in a supervisory capacity and add another layer of costs? Might as well attack the problem at its core and fire his incompetent GM.

Exactly. Makes no sense that he would keep Bergevin on board and let him take impactful decisions if he didn't trust him anymore.

 

[Bryson]

Was listening to the NHL network previews this week and man it's depressing. It's basically, the Canadiens are Carey Price and nothing else. Shea Weber's gone until at least December, Max looks like he wants out (and we want him out) and that leaves... Gallagher?

Even with Weber we have arguably the worst blueline in the NHL. Without him we're definitely the worst. How the hell did we get here when only a short while ago we were an up and coming team with young superstar talent. It's just so freaking sad.

And we don't even have a decent stockpile of picks/prospects to go along with it.

But yet we still have the same usual suspects like Jaffy, TooLegit and Belial defending this clown. It's Gainey's fault that 7 years later Bergevin has nothing to work with because Gainey completely destroyed the prospect pool and so he had nothing to work with. We are the ones being too negative here, we all need to chill out! It's only pre-season! If PK Subban didn't slack off and take a vacation every summer, the Montreal Canadiens would have won a Stanley Cup by now. Bergevin makes more money than you do so how dare you judge him! Poile has been in the league for 30 years, if you're not willing to give Bergevin at least that long to prove himself then you're not a real fan!! Open your eyes!!

 

[habsfan909]

LOL. Are you the one who made the crack that Benn won't be traded because they like big beards in the NHL? If you are, I'll start to take notice of your posts. You have a sense of humour. Something we will need to get us through this upcoming abysmal season

haha no that wasn't me... I do believe that MB thought he fleeced the Stars when he traded for Benn though. I don't think he knew that there were 2 Benn's and he thought he got a 1C finally.

As a matter of fact, since Jamie is so good at centre, it must be in their blood. We should put Jordie at C and finally get Drouin back on the wing.

 

[habsfan909]

Hey guys... any update on Geoff's new and upgraded food for this season? That's really the only interesting thing going on with this organization. The curiosity for just how much more he plans to charge for a hot dog. Maybe this year they will change to dijon mustard and charge an extra 70%.

 

[jaffy27]

But yet we still have the same usual suspects like Jaffy, TooLegit and Belial defending this clown. It's Gainey's fault that 7 years later Bergevin has nothing to work with because Gainey completely destroyed the prospect pool and so he had nothing to work with. We are the ones being too negative here, we all need to chill out! It's only pre-season! If PK Subban didn't slack off and take a vacation every summer, the Montreal Canadiens would have won a Stanley Cup by now. Bergevin makes more money than you do so how dare you judge him! Poile has been in the league for 30 years, if you're not willing to give Bergevin at least that long to prove himself then you're not a real fan!! Open your eyes!!

I can defend, hate, dislike or root for whoever the f*** I want.....f*** you remind me of a real bad ear infection, you know, the ones you can hear your own heart pound.....we don’t think alike, move on

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Given how well run the Lightning are, I think Brisebois is a top of the list candidate even setting aside the language requirement.

My fear is that by the time Molson finally gets around to taking Bergevin behind the barn, someone will have beaten us to hiring Brisebois. Then what? Damphousse? Roy? Barf and double barf.

Molson should put himself out while he's at it.

 

[Rapala]

Molson should put himself out while he's at it.

This was the only obvious solution for me 2 and even 3 years ago.
Molson must have started questioning the ridiculous contracts he handed out to our GM and Coaches? Damn the money was bad enough but the term was so far out of line with top flight executives around the league you had to laugh...or cry. Having said that he could easily have removed himself from the equation while inserting the best hockey mind available to neutralize MB's misplaced ardour. Letting Bergevin's contract run itself out harmlessly could have saved us three or four years of angst I'm sure. The problem was Molson like very many around here didn't even see the problem. Kudos to those of you who did you know who you are.

 

[Runner77]

Exactly. Makes no sense that he would keep Bergevin on board and let him take impactful decisions if he didn't trust him anymore.

Would it surprise anyone that Geoff had actual input in the impactful decisions taken by Bergevin?

Like when Bergevin dropped this little pearl:

 

[GHJimmy]

He did the right thing, it may be non hockey related but he should deserve a respect for his acts, if you have a different perspective about him as a gm there's other threads to discuss that.

 

[Kriss E]

Would it surprise anyone that Geoff had actual input in the impactful decisions taken by Bergevin?

Like when Bergevin dropped this little pearl:

I don't think Molson gets involved much in hockey decisions. I think Bergevin tells Molson what he's going to do, and Geoff just goes along with it because he hired him for those exact reasons.
So once you no longer think the guy you put in charge of leading those decisions, you're not going to just dictate to him what to do because that's not what he does.

Out of the two men, Bergevin is the one that looks and sounds shady and full of crap. Molson looks like the puppet, not the other way around.

 

[nhlfan9191]

He did the right thing, it may be non hockey related but he should deserve a respect for his acts, if you have a different perspective about him as a gm there's other threads to discuss that.

This is the main Marc Bergevin thread..

 

[Habs Halifax]

But yet we still have the same usual suspects like Jaffy, TooLegit and Belial defending this clown. It's Gainey's fault that 7 years later Bergevin has nothing to work with because Gainey completely destroyed the prospect pool and so he had nothing to work with. We are the ones being too negative here, we all need to chill out! It's only pre-season! If PK Subban didn't slack off and take a vacation every summer, the Montreal Canadiens would have won a Stanley Cup by now. Bergevin makes more money than you do so how dare you judge him! Poile has been in the league for 30 years, if you're not willing to give Bergevin at least that long to prove himself then you're not a real fan!! Open your eyes!!

Open your eyes! We are not defending him. We are just not hating him like you are. There is a lot of talk about what mistakes he has made and how he is struggling but you have your blinders on and you want another fan to argue with. Hate evaluation don't help anything but don't let us stop you... keep it going if it makes you feel happy or more upset. Whatever turns your crank

 

[Habs Halifax]

I don't think Molson gets involved much in hockey decisions. I think Bergevin tells Molson what he's going to do, and Geoff just goes along with it because he hired him for those exact reasons.
So once you no longer think the guy you put in charge of leading those decisions, you're not going to just dictate to him what to do because that's not what he does.

Out of the two men, Bergevin is the one that looks and sounds shady and full of crap. Molson looks like the puppet, not the other way around.

Molson thinks $$$. 4 more years in term left and a lot of money to write off. I predict Bergevin is gone once Galchenyuk plays center full time in the desert and scores 30+ goals and 60+ pts. Hard to imagine Bergevin keeping his job after he traded the center we have been looking for.

Reaching your potential has a lot to do with opportunity and patience. They clearly did not have this type of approach with Galchenyuk. Imagine doing your job and having your boss jump on your every mistake you make. Galchenyuk is going to come out the gates flying this year... he has something to prove and he will get the opportunity

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Hey guys... any update on Geoff's new and upgraded food for this season? That's really the only interesting thing going on with this organization. The curiosity for just how much more he plans to charge for a hot dog. Maybe this year they will change to dijon mustard and charge an extra 70%.

#Transparency
#LoyalHounds
#Lose4Hughes

 

[BLONG7]

Molson thinks $$$. 4 more years in term left and a lot of money to write off. I predict Bergevin is gone once Galchenyuk plays center full time in the desert and scores 30+ goals and 60+ pts. Hard to imagine Bergevin keeping his job after he traded the center we have been looking for.

Reaching your potential has a lot to do with opportunity and patience. They clearly did not have this type of approach with Galchenyuk. Imagine doing your job and having your boss jump on your every mistake you make. Galchenyuk is going to come out the gates flying this year... he has something to prove and he will get the opportunity

It's sad, that we have to wait for the last straw so to speak, the organization and it's fans deserve better. Bergevin should have been fired with Therrien three seasons ago...but our Ballard like owner, has no ball$...

 

[Andy]

Just a friendly reminder that Boston rebounded by developing quite a few players drafted during MB's tenure and adding them to the core of Marchand, Chara, Bergeron and Krejci.

No excuses.

Also, as I showed in the previous iteration of this thread, the drafting from 2008-2011 is simply meant as a distraction and is cherry picking since it omits a key year, 2007. I can provide that post again that from 2007-2011, the habs drafting was fairly similar to league averages in drafting across the board despite not drafting high during those years.

Where the Habs ended up is on MB and his staff.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Also, as I showed in the previous iteration of this thread, the drafting from 2008-2011 is simply meant as a distraction and is cherry picking since it omits a key year, 2007. I can provide that post again that from 2007-2011, the habs drafting was fairly similar to league averages in drafting across the board despite not drafting high during those years..

It's not a distraction, it's reality and you ignore it. It's very weird how you don't realize how bad those 4 years were. Nobody is ignoring the awesome 2007 draft. We all know how good it was. However, it was followed with probably the worse 4 year stretch in franchise history.

It's very weird how this goes over your head. There is no distraction and trying to hide anything. The 2008-2011 draft picks are a result of massive holes in our line-up today. Those draft picks are age 25-29 today.

 

[DAChampion]

Nobody is ignoring the awesome 2007 draft.

You ignore it every time you cherry pick a four year sequence.

 

[Habs Halifax]

You ignore it every time you cherry pick a four year sequence.

Not ignoring anything when I acknowledge the 2007 draft but also talk about how bad the 4 years after are. It's the same as evaluating the 2012-2018 draft and removing Galchenyuk who was the best producing pick in that span. I also engaged in this as well.

Who's ignoring things here? Not me. I have talked about the core in 2012 (Price, Subban, Patch, Gallagher). I also have talked about how bad the prospect pool was at that time as well. The 4 years of draft prior to this had nothing to do with this right? I'm talking about the core which includes the 2007 picks and you think I'm ignoring it. Weird. You want me to list Subban and Patch as prospects in 2012? Sure. Nobody is a fool, everybody knows how good they are and how good the 2007 draft was. So, I guess you are saying one very good draft year is an excuse for following this up with a 4 year stretch of drafting that was some of the worse drafting you will ever see.

2008-2011 are dark years in our drafting history. It is cherry picking cause it stands out sore thumb. How can you not notice it and how it is tied to the missing holes in our line-up today?

I'll ask for the 100th time.... SHOW ME A 4 YEAR SPAN FROM ANY NHL TEAM IN THE HISTORY OF THE NHL WHO HAD A 4 YEAR STRETCH THAT WAS WORSE? Are you scared to look and realize my point? You might find a similar comparison but it will take a while! lol

 

[Bryson]

I'm pretty sure owners don't interfere with contracts, negotiations, signings, etc. Sure, owners and GMs meet to set budgetary limits and of course owners sign their names to the contracts -- it's their money, after all -- but it's the GM who makes the personnel decisions of who they sign and for how much. Weird as it seems, Molson must still have trust in Bergevin to make the right moves. To a point. No owner will publicly rip their GM, but there is absolutely a clock ticking down on Molson's patience and Bergevin's employment. He'll be fired eventually, but none of us will see it coming.

Belial pretty much nailed it.

Molson is not only the owner, he's the President and chief executive officer. All trades get his seal of approval including trading Subban, Galchenyuk, etc.. his hands are not clean of the mess he and Bergevin have created. Molson has no hockey experience so why is he making hockey decisions?

Also it is pretty much acknowledged that PK and Bergevin were in for a long and ugly battle before Molson stepped in and gave him that contract.

 

[Andy]

Not ignoring anything when I acknowledge the 2007 draft but also talk about how bad the 4 years after are. It's the same as evaluating the 2012-2018 draft and removing Galchenyuk who was the best producing pick in that span. I also engaged in this as well.

Who's ignoring things here? Not me. I have talked about the core in 2012 (Price, Subban, Patch, Gallagher). I also have talked about how bad the prospect pool was at that time as well. The 4 years of draft prior to this had nothing to do with this right? I'm talking about the core which includes the 2007 picks and you think I'm ignoring it. Weird. You want me to list Subban and Patch as prospects in 2012? Sure. Nobody is a fool, everybody knows how good they are and how good the 2007 draft was. So, I guess you are saying one very good draft year is an excuse for following this up with a 4 year stretch of drafting that was some of the worse drafting you will ever see.

2008-2011 are dark years in our drafting history. It is cherry picking cause it stands out sore thumb. How can you not notice it and how it is tied to the missing holes in our line-up today?

I'll ask for the 100th time.... SHOW ME A 4 YEAR SPAN FROM ANY NHL TEAM IN THE HISTORY OF THE NHL WHO HAD A 4 YEAR STRETCH THAT WAS WORSE? Are you scared to look and realize my point? You might find a similar comparison but it will take a while! lol

You’re making the argument that it was the worst, so the onus is on you to prove that it is, not on others that it’s not. You need to prove the claim true before the duty falls on others to disprove it.

Omitting 2007 is significant omission, enough that it invalidates your cherry picking. Not only that, it doesn’t excuse the fact that other teams were able to bolster their clubs with draftees drafted during MBs tenure. It’s an all around failure by him.

 

[Kriss E]

Molson thinks $$$. 4 more years in term left and a lot of money to write off. I predict Bergevin is gone once Galchenyuk plays center full time in the desert and scores 30+ goals and 60+ pts. Hard to imagine Bergevin keeping his job after he traded the center we have been looking for.

Reaching your potential has a lot to do with opportunity and patience. They clearly did not have this type of approach with Galchenyuk. Imagine doing your job and having your boss jump on your every mistake you make. Galchenyuk is going to come out the gates flying this year... he has something to prove and he will get the opportunity

If Molson is thinking cash, how is he letting the guy who took over a pretty intetesting and promising group turn the club into a complete mess? How's that good for money? Habs are uninteresting, fans are bored and turned off, the bell center has a lot of empty seats.
Furthermore, we saved about 10M in spending last year. Right now we have about 7M in space. That's almost the remaining value of Bergevin' s contract.
Not sure how keeping Bergevin shows he cares about money.
Also, if you care about the cash, you don't put the responsibility of rebounding your business on a guy you don't trust.

What's 5M per year to Molson anyways? Just in NHL player salary he's spending around 70M. Add the entire personnel group, costs of operations, taxes, etc. An extra 5M per year of spending represents very little to Molson.

Bergevin is still here because Molson still believes in him. That's it that's all.

 

[Habs Halifax]

You’re making the argument that it was the worst, so the onus is on you to prove that it is. Omitting 2007 is significant omission, enough that it invalidates your cherry picking. Not only that, it doesn’t excuse the fact that other teams were able to bolster their clubs with draftees drafted during MBs tenure. It’s an all around failure by him.

My point clearly goes over your head. It's one of the worse 4 year spans in the history of the NHL (not just the Habs). You would have a point if the year 2007 was in the middle of the 2008-2011 draft years but it doesn't.

The point (you need reminders) is how good the 2007 draft was but followed up with a terrible 4 years of drafting. The missing holes in our line-up today have a lot to do with the 4 year span cause those picks are age 25-29 ish today.

 

[Habs Halifax]

If Molson is thinking cash, how is he letting the guy who took over a pretty intetesting and promising group turn the club into a complete mess? How's that good for money? Habs are uninteresting, fans are bored and turned off, the bell center has a lot of empty seats.
Furthermore, we saved about 10M in spending last year. Right now we have about 7M in space. That's almost the remaining value of Bergevin' s contract.
Not sure how keeping Bergevin shows he cares about money.
Also, if you care about the cash, you don't put the responsibility of rebounding your business on a guy you don't trust.

What's 5M per year to Molson anyways? Just in NHL player salary he's spending around 70M. Add the entire personnel group, costs of operations, taxes, etc. An extra 5M per year of spending represents very little to Molson.

Bergevin is still here because Molson still believes in him. That's it that's all.

Well, last off season Bergevin did a terrible job. Too much AAV to Price, Too much AAV and term to Alzner, Only a 3 year deal for Galchenyuk. What did Bergevin do this off season? Where is the risky spending? Not saying Bergevin deserves to keep his job at this stage but Molson can control costs.

What's $5M to Molson? It's a lot of money for anybody, even millionaires. This should not be ignored. It's a big deal.

 

[Andy]

My point clearly goes over your head. It's one of the worse 4 year spans in the history of the NHL (not just the Habs). You would have a point if the year 2007 was in the middle of the 2008-2011 draft years but it doesn't.

The point (you need reminders) is how good the 2007 draft was but followed up with a terrible 4 years of drafting. The missing holes in our line-up today have a lot to do with the 4 year span cause those picks are age 25-29 ish today.

I don't think so. It's clear that you are trying to excuse MB and this is just a lame attempt at doing so.

The 2008-2011 draft cross section isn't significant precisely because the year before yielded good players. As a result, when you analyze a 5 year cross section between 2007-2011, the habs didn't fair any worse than league average. In other words, the poorer drafted from 2008-2011 is offset by the good drafting between 2007-2011. No team hits homeruns every year, the misses in some years are offset by success in years directly adjacent to whatever cross section is being analyzed.

Case in point:

• 

As you can see, from 2007-2011 the habs produced nhl talent at more or less the average rate in the first and second round, while being above average in the 5th round in that time span. They are below average in the 3rd round, 4th round, 6th round and 7th round in that time frame. That being said, the rate for the league was less than 1 in all these rounds.

So the idea that MB was held back because of 2008-2011 is not supported by the data. The average amount of nhlers (loose term since there are quite a few journeymen players on that list) produced in that period is 7, the Habs produced 6. The Habs had added an additional 1st rounder from 2007-2011 by acquiring Eller and a 5th rounder by acquiring Pateryn.

In the end, MB ended up with 6 of the 8 nhlers Montreal had produced or acquired from those draft years, 1 below the average. However, it's important to keep in mind that that average includes a lot of Journeymen nhlers. The 6 players MB inherited from this period of draftees was Subban, Pacioretty, Eller, Beaulieu, Pateryn, and Gallagher which compared to the rest of the list is actually pretty good for a team that didn't draft top 10 in that time frame.

Also, it's important not to forget, though they weren't blue chip prospects, the Habs did have Tinordi, Leblanc, Bournival (also acquired from the 2007-2011 period), Nygren in the system in addition to the above 5 mentioned players. In hindsight, they weren't good, but at the time, their fate was far from certain.



If anyone wants the file to complete the exercise, I can send it your way. Note, I did not at Atlanta/Winnipeg just yet. Will do so soon.