Management Thread | 5th Youngest Team in the League Edition

[Nucker101]

I think it’s incredibly odd that Rutherford has been dodging the media given he’s the president.

My guess is that he’s upset(either at the media or himself) that he was painted as the bad guy during the Bruce fiasco

 

[valkynax]

My guess is that he’s upset(either at the media or himself) that he was painted as the bad guy during the Bruce fiasco

I have zero sympathy for Moleman.

Zero.

As the cliche says, you win as a team, you lose as a team. As president, when the team is shit, more likely than not you will be partly responsible, whether you like it or not.

He and Skeletor both share the same problem: orating like Darth Vader, while delivery results like two f***ing Ewoks.

Yes, I'm gonna call Alv Skeletor from this point on.

 

[arttk]

Wait... What is the timeline for the retool that is taking place, in your opinion?


Nobody is saying what MS tries to argue against.

I was advocating trading both Miller and Bo last season. I thought If we get like 2 blue chippers like Schneider and some 2C prospects, they should be able to make up 50% of what Bo and Miller contribute and leading to us tanking hard this season. Then next season, those blue chippers should be good enough and we should have cap and some prospects to use to acquire more players to get into playoff mode. Only problem is Miller and Bo can’t return that kinda prospect.

I think it’s incredibly odd that Rutherford has been dodging the media given he’s the president.

That’s a weird way to start a message, why would he assume JR isn’t speaking because he’s mad? JR already said he will let Allvin address the media since the last media thing and that’s what he’s doing.

 

[God]

I thought Allvin/Tocchet did a fine job today answering questions, but that's really strange behaviour from Rutherford. Like, I don't think it would be much different from what we got had he been there... so now this just looks bad on his part.

Maybe part of it is that it's pretty clear he didn't want Bruce, but some forces (aqua) kept Bruce at the helm for an extended period of time, and Rutherford ended up looking the worst out of the front office and he didn't like that. Surely, we will see him soon...unless he's stepping away.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

I was advocating trading both Miller and Bo last season. I thought If we get like 2 blue chippers like Schneider and some 2C prospects, they should be able to make up 50% of what Bo and Miller contribute and leading to us tanking hard this season. Then next season, those blue chippers should be good enough and we should have cap and some prospects to use to acquire more players to get into playoff mode. Only problem is Miller and Bo can’t return that kinda prospect.

Chytil was that prospect.

We declined.

Again.

The timeline? Don't you think picking Fantilli this year and having him contribute in 3-4 years... IF this retool succeeds, wont we be right in the middle of our meaty contention window?

 

[sandwichbird2023]

Chytil was that prospect.

We declined.

Again.

The timeline? Don't you think picking Fantilli this year and having him contribute in 3-4 years... IF this retool succeeds, wont we be right in the middle of our meaty contention window?

No, apparently the new excuse of the day is "Petey will leave next summer if we are not competitive next season." So having Fantilli contributing in 3-4 years would be 2-3 years too late.

What isn't mentioned is the logistics behind such mega trade, which team has the assets, cap space, and needs to pull it off, and why should the Canucks compromise for him?

The Oilers haven't always been great in McDavid's first few years in the league and I don't remember him, nor Draistal, being this demanding during the low points. I love Petey as much as the next fan, but at this point you might as well fire Allvin and let EP runs the team because, according to some here, he already set the directions and Allvin just take order and make it happens.

 

[Peen]

I was advocating trading both Miller and Bo last season. I thought If we get like 2 blue chippers like Schneider and some 2C prospects, they should be able to make up 50% of what Bo and Miller contribute and leading to us tanking hard this season. Then next season, those blue chippers should be good enough and we should have cap and some prospects to use to acquire more players to get into playoff mode. Only problem is Miller and Bo can’t return that kinda prospect.


That’s a weird way to start a message, why would he assume JR isn’t speaking because he’s mad? JR already said he will let Allvin address the media since the last media thing and that’s what he’s doing.

JR saying that in the first place was weird because he’s the president.

It’s like he doesn’t want to do his job anymore given the heat he took.

 

[kranuck]

At this point I think a poll should be made and the results should be posted in the 'terms of agreement' part of the sign up procedure.

Please clarify and set in stone the EXACT meaning of:
Rebuild
Retool
Re do
Re focus

re re re.

Until those terms are actually agreed to, there is too much grey area.
All those words seem to mean something different to so many of the posters.
So much pointless bickering because 1 poster thinks a rebuild means 5-6 years, but the guy he's mad at believes rebuild means 4-5 years.
3-4 years is it a 'quick rebuild' or is it a long re-tool. perhaps it is just a re-focus?

Carve the meaning of these words in stone somewhere; should reduce some of the angst.

Rebuild is an ancient magic spell, management merely saying it guarantees that the team will be better.

If Pettersson signs a contract this offseason, then the same reason you gave for Hughes maybe being around for a 2 year rebuild (not tank, please use the same terminology) can be applied to Pettersson as well. That's how thin your line is here.

The VAN team prior to drafting the Sedins tried to compete, failed miserably, and then sold off current players to try and get both Sedins at the top of the draft. This VAN team has tried to compete, has failed miserably, but instead of trying to prioritize the draft, sold picks to get a current player. So the opposite strategy. In a way, this signifies the Sedin move as a rebuild, and the Hronek move a re-tool move. Is that a fair assessment?

So, this is all based on if the Canucks had decided to tank this year and at least made an effort to get a top 3 pick.

2 season from now, if the Canucks put a focus on trading older players, and bring in younger talent through cheap signings, trades, and a crap ton of draft picks and hopefully hit on a few players.

Forward group could possibly consist of:

Pettersson, Boeser, Garland, Kuzmenko, Bedard/Fantilli, Aman, Joshua, Hoglander, Podkolzin as mainstays.

Insert the remaining slots with emerging draft picks, signings etc. Examples could be Karlsson, Lekkermaki (ugh).

The rumoured Miller trade involved a couple high picks. So lets say those picks bring in a top D and C prospect from the draft.

The biggest need for forwards is as you said, a 3C.

Unless Aman continues to develop, they will need to draft, trade, or sign one.



Dcore is a much bigger question mark. There is next to no depth, but it really won't be difficult to replace OEL and Myers who played way too many minutes for what they provided. Freaking Juuslen looked better than Myers quite often.

Hughes, Hronek , Bear (if he doesn't demand too much on his next deal), emerging talent ie Hirose, McWard, etc.

I would put a premium on cheap contracts that have a similar return value when compared to albatrosses such as Myers.

This is where Brisebois, Wolanin, and Rathbone could emerge as useful players. When you have cheap contracts, age doesn't matter as much because diminishing returns don't hurt your cap structure ie. Myers, OEL.

I believe that a few affordable signings hitting and a top draft D prospect will be necessary to push them into playoff territory within 2 years.

As far as goaltending...

Demko would return a lot in a trade. For the sake of our debate, let's say that they trade Demko.

My plan would be to sign Jarry to a 3 year deal this off season (Rutherford and Allvin ties and he is a local kid) as long as he doesn't demand 5+ million.

Silovs has promise. He is a legitimate backup option the next 2 years.

Continue to draft a develop goalies. Demko's return could come with top draft picks and maybe a promising goalie prospect?

No crappy expensive contracts being given out on July 1st and no more trading high draft picks for age-gap players.

All of this being said...

It is quite possible that the team is in the same position in 3 years when conpared to a retool. But at least with this strategy and approach, they build up draft capital and their prospect cupboards.

Obviously none of this will happen as Aquilini won't stand for it. But I believe this is a more logical approach to give this current core a better chance at meaningful playoff games within 2 to 3 years.

Demko would return not much at all in a trade.

Silovs might suck.

Congrats, you "built" half a team with no goaltending and most of teh same problems, but hey you got a *chance* at a decent player from the draft.

No guarantees since it would be pretty ridiculously hard to finish even 3rd last in the division, but they might get slightly closer.

 

[kranuck]

My guess is that he’s upset(either at the media or himself) that he was painted as the bad guy during the Bruce fiasco

or he just doesn't feel like doing it.

All I’m going to say is this…. How, and I mean HOW can a new regime come in here and f*** up even more than the 4 horse men of the apocalypse????

How can a new regime (are they paying attention or just collecting pay cheques) screw up as much as this new regime did this year?

I know a lot of us just want the best for this frachise but holy crap!!!!

In my personal opinion, it’s going to get a lot worse before it gets better.

Would you agree?????

They haven't screwed up much at all and the whining in this thread is insanely over the top.

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

or he just doesn't feel like doing it.


They haven't screwed up much at all and the whining in this thread is insanely over the top.

You know what's really insanely over the top?

Doing the same thing over and over and over for the last 10 years and expecting different results.

Even with the new management, they said we'd be a playoff team this year, with most of us screaming that we wouldn't be. The blue line being the biggest issue. The complete and total lack of dmen prospects being the biggest part of it. Instead of even attempting to fix the problem they traded for a dman who is injured and will be getting a large salary increase next year, by a team with no cap space. In fact they traded away more draft picks, Sound familiar?

They said they would get rid of dead anchors, gain cap space. We all said it couldn't be done and that these contracts were immovable, still they assured all of us that it could be done. Instead they have done the opposite, we are a capped out team, they have added to it, while getting rid of basically nothing, and not even close to contending even making the playoffs is a big stretch. Again seems like we have seen this before.....

I agree that this team is not bottom 5 in the league and that we underachieved to an extent this year, we (in a sense) aren't that lucky. No it's much worse, we are a capped out middle of league team that is neither a playoff team nor a bottom feeder.

We are the definition of mediocre, we are capped out, we have a barren prospect pool and the future does not look bright, like at all.

But we shouldn't be whining right?...........

 

[PuckMunchkin]

That’s a weird way to start a message, why would he assume JR isn’t speaking because he’s mad? JR already said he will let Allvin address the media since the last media thing and that’s what he’s doing.

Because he was mad at the media reception of his treatment of Bruce when he decided "Fine. Maybe I should talk to you guys less. How will you like that!"

or he just doesn't feel like doing it.

What other parts of his job does he randomly decided to skip on?

 

[arttk]

Chytil was that prospect.

We declined.

Again.

The timeline? Don't you think picking Fantilli this year and having him contribute in 3-4 years... IF this retool succeeds, wont we be right in the middle of our meaty contention window?

Chytil was not that prospect and yes we should have declined.

It’s all moot considering nobody offered that level of prospect for Miller and Bo.

 

[Jyrki21]

What other parts of his job does he randomly decided to skip on?

Clearing cap space, I guess?

 

[arttk]

Because he was mad at the media reception of his treatment of Bruce when he decided "Fine. Maybe I should talk to you guys less. How will you like that!"


What other parts of his job does he randomly decided to skip on?

I don’t know why people would infer that he is mad. I mean he pretty much laid out why he won’t speak.

 

[tantalum]

Not a big deal the president isn't speaking at the end of the year. Unless there is a management or coaching change I don't see why that input would be that important to anyone. Neither of those organizational changes are happening. The organization can be represented by GM and coach in this case with no issue from my point of view.

For instance, I very much remember Nonis at a single podium for his year end press conferences. Benning in his last one was just him and Green. Same the year before that. Essentially what I'm saying is when things are stable in the front office it's the GM and coach that handles this.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Chytil was not that prospect and yes we should have declined.

He sure looks like that guy right now.

It’s all moot considering nobody offered that level of prospect for Miller and Bo.

Can you please answer the question.

How are we not right in our contention window in 3-4 years when Fantilli would join and help us as a top contributor?

What on earth is the window with this retool we are talking about if that is not the case?

 

[PuckMunchkin]

I don’t know why people would infer that he is mad. I mean he pretty much laid out why he won’t speak.

I guess that is one way to interpret the situation.

Obviously did not seem like it for most people, including Farhan, when JR was talking,
but if you wanna try to make Jim come out of this looking better I can see why you would want to see it that way.

 

[arttk]

He sure looks like that guy right now.


Can you please answer the question.

How are we not right in our contention window in 3-4 years when Fantilli would join and help us as a top contributor?

What on earth is the window with this retool we are talking about if that is not the case?

He ended the season with 45 points even though he was crazy hot in the 1st half.

You know I have been on team tank this season right? Hell yeah I think Fantilli would help us. But honestly I didnt think we could get that low unless we traded away both Bo and Miller and there wasn’t a good enough offer to make it happen. I mean I am here praying for the lottery ball to drop our way.

We had this convo many times right, I think if they can get like 2 more D that can actually PK and a really strong defensive 3C we should be a playoff team next season. I think to get to a contender level in like 3 years, they will need to hit on like another Kuzmenko type player via FA or win a trade in a big way. And I still believe we still need to shoot Myers and OEL to the moon or something.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

He ended the season with 45 points even though he was crazy hot in the 1st half.

Can you think of any reason why that might have happened..?

I thought it was pretty much consensus that the Canucks, in hindsight, 100% should have taken the Rangers package.

You know I have been on team tank this season right? Hell yeah I think Fantilli would help us. But honestly I didnt think we could get that low unless we traded away both Bo and Miller and there wasn’t a good enough offer to make it happen. I mean I am here praying for the lottery ball to drop our way.

We had this convo many times right, I think if they can get like 2 more D that can actually PK and a really strong defensive 3C we should be a playoff team next season. I think to get to a contender level in like 3 years, they will need to hit on like another Kuzmenko type player via FA or win a trade in a big way. And I still believe we still need to shoot Myers and OEL to the moon or something.

So. It made no sense when you said Fantilli would help us in 3-4 years.

If the retool succeeds he would be a MASSIVE asset for us in our cup hunt years.

This was my entire point.

edit. Let me remind you what you said:

"Like even if we tanked this season and get like a Fantili or Carlsson, you can’t really expect them to do shit for you until like 3-4 years after."

 

[Gstank]

He made him self look like an ass again and again and is now blaming the media for showing him in bad light?

The media here is just stupid sometimes. They make a mountain out of every single little detail, Oh Horvat didnt go to Miller Halloween Party I guess there is friction in the dressing room, oh Hughes is on an IV, Oh Horvat Said soemthing about Vancouver in NY.

Its like an over dramactic person who reacts negatively to everything even if a bee poops on their car. Its tiring and I dont blame him for not talking to the some of the dunces in the media. Patterson, Sekeres, Laji, Simpson being the number 1 people on that list as they aren't even good sources of content or reporting for the team.

I think if Rutherford is going to talk to anyone its probably Sat as he is the most even keeled out of the group and is the most reasonable

 

[arttk]

Can you think of any reason why that might have happened..?

View attachment 690817

I thought it was pretty much consensus that the Canucks, in hindsight, 100% should have taken the Rangers package.


So. It made no sense when you said Fantilli would help us in 3-4 years.

If the retool succeeds he would be a MASSIVE asset for us in our cup hunt years.

This was my entire point.

Yeah they traded for 2 really good players and that took away the opportunity but it doesn’t change the fact that he’s not that blue chipper. He hasn’t shown glimpse of being a line driver, his FO hasn’t improved in like 5 seasons, he can’t pk.

I don’t think there ever was a consensus here about that package. Most people were on the other side and felt Chytil and Lundvist was not enough. Chytil was seen as a freaking cap dump because he was like a 20ish point center making 3M.

it made no sense that Fantili would help us in 3-4 years?

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Yeah they traded for 2 really good players and that took away the opportunity but it doesn’t change the fact that he’s not that blue chipper. He hasn’t shown glimpse of being a line driver, his FO hasn’t improved in like 5 seasons, he can’t pk.

Chytil had 3 less even strength points than Miller.

I don’t think there ever was a consensus here about that package. Most people were on the other side and felt Chytil and Lundvist was not enough. Chytil was seen as a freaking cap dump because he was like a 20ish point center making 3M.

Most people thought that. I didn't and hindsight has show I was right.

You are the only person as far as I know, who thought Chytil was a cap dump.

it made no sense that Fantili would help us in 3-4 years?

It makes no sense that you think that doesn't align with our retool window.

 

[gringo]

JR king of quiet quitting

 

[kranuck]

You know what's really insanely over the top?

Doing the same thing over and over and over for the last 10 years and expecting different results.

Even with the new management, they said we'd be a playoff team this year, with most of us screaming that we wouldn't be. The blue line being the biggest issue. The complete and total lack of dmen prospects being the biggest part of it. Instead of even attempting to fix the problem they traded for a dman who is injured and will be getting a large salary increase next year, by a team with no cap space. In fact they traded away more draft picks, Sound familiar?

They said they would get rid of dead anchors, gain cap space. We all said it couldn't be done and that these contracts were immovable, still they assured all of us that it could be done. Instead they have done the opposite, we are a capped out team, they have added to it, while getting rid of basically nothing, and not even close to contending even making the playoffs is a big stretch. Again seems like we have seen this before.....

I agree that this team is not bottom 5 in the league and that we underachieved to an extent this year, we (in a sense) aren't that lucky. No it's much worse, we are a capped out middle of league team that is neither a playoff team nor a bottom feeder.

We are the definition of mediocre, we are capped out, we have a barren prospect pool and the future does not look bright, like at all.

But we shouldn't be whining right?...........

Yeah, I'm getting rather tired of the incoherent screeching about anything and everything.

Conspiracy theories about forcing Larscheid out.
Blaming them for Doerrie getting upset about getting fired, absent any evidence that her claim has any merit.
Speculation about how Rutherford is being so petty and whiny and cowardly and half a dozen other things because he didn't want to attend the end of season availability, which was whining about how Alvin doens't do anything when Rutherford did show up.
Whining endlessly about how they need dmen then whining endlessly when they go get a dman.
Constant unending whining about ownership
Obsession with the magic word that is rebuild
Insane plans to somehow finish top 3 with a roster that is simply nowhere near that quality.

and on and on and on and on and on and on.

Chytil had 3 less even strength points than Miller.

Most people thought that. I didn't and hindsight has show I was right.

You are the only person as far as I know, who thought Chytil was a cap dump.


It makes no sense that you think that doesn't align with our retool window.

Hockey includes more than 5 on 5.

 

[Diogenes92]

Demko would return not much at all in a trade.

Silovs might suck.

Congrats, you "built" half a team with no goaltending and most of teh same problems, but hey you got a *chance* at a decent player from the draft.

No guarantees since it would be pretty ridiculously hard to finish even 3rd last in the division, but they might get slightly closer.

Demko would return a nice haul.

Silovs showed well. And it won't be a big ask for him to simply be better than Martin or Delia.

The entire point of the rebuild approach is to accumulate draft picks and build depth in the organization so that they can sustain a high level of success. This year's draft is effing stacked. Would've been the perfect time to make lots of picks

It beats the strategy of cutting corners and trading away assets to speed up the competitive curve of a team that is currently bottom 3rd of the league.

This whole: "BuT peTeY anD hUghES" argument is a cheap copout and doesn't factor in that the team is starting from the bottom.

It doesn't matter what they do in the short term. They are going to struggle to make the playoffs In the coming years. May as well build depth if you're going to miss.