Post-Game Talk: Literally shooting yourself in the foot

[Kinibo]

It's a high risk gamble at the absolute apex of this franchise's window phase after walking in the desert through more than a decade of failed rebuilds, countless coaches and many management groups. That's where I point the arrow. This current roster has one $4 million small free agent winger on the 4th line and a second small $3 million one in the press box.

I can't really draw a line to the Horcoff comparison. Different position versus last line of defense; different phases of organization with Horcoff in largely a rebuild cycle outside the Cinderella run. Add that era organization had trouble keeping talent so Horcoff overpayment stemmed some of that disadvantage. But ultimately he was miscast as a top centre when his strong utility as a hard working two-way player could not meet the salary.

Agree that Skinner is kind of a perfect storm scenario and position that is a magnet for criticism as we are all out of patience for well beyond a decade of rebuild(s) have finally payed off a team capable of competing and winning a Cup. I equate Skinner's situation as a development phase goaltender as trying to onboard a speeding bullettrain in full flight. I don't get hung up on media opinionating about Skinner (or much of anyone) as Gregor, Spector, Stauffer and the like have about as much actual playing experience as most of this board. Generally best to tune it out or take with a grain of salt. There's no winner if/when media go on a crusade against a player. There should have been a commitment to mitigate the Skinner high risk with a bonafide veteran 1A/1B running mate.

This team can beat anyone on any given day. Its challenge has been to beat elite teams over seven game series and do so by reducing/eliminating their bad decisions within the margins. Skinner was bad last night and he had a lot of team help to gift Vegas a win. Agree the LA Game 5 is the best, complete 60 minutes I've seen from this group. That's the secret sauce they need to find and execute consistently to lift the Cup. The Dynasty Teams won theirs when they learned to defend and suppress opposition scoring versus simply trying to outgun them. Game 4 is their next chance to show that maturity.

Agree with much of this. However I do get hung up on the media, probably to a fault, but only because their constant defense of our de facto #1 overlooks the fact that this is a problem and by extension absolves the org of any responsibility for it. After all, if there’s no problem then there’s nothing to fix and we all know better than that. Maybe I’m overreacting, but through the lens of my passion for this team I have a hard time seeing it any other way.

Appreciate the conversation.

 

[bucks_oil]

Exactly. It was going through the crease (not in the net). He successfully cut down Smith's angle to the point where he missed the net. If Drai doesn't score an own goal were not even talking about it. It was bad luck and it happens.

It's honestly the least-worst goal that Skinner let in last night.

Aren’t you a goalie?

Didn’t Dubnyk have the same assessment (that it actually was the best-played of his 4 goals against?

I’ve personally played situations (mostly rebounds of my pad) exactly like that and I’d do it again… when you are on an island go F’n swimming and hope for a life raft.

If Skinner had gone back into rote-mechanics, shrinking back toward his goal it would have guaranteed a goal against…. At least with what he did he minimized the odds… many other nights, Drai isn’t there and time expires before it gets to the (marked) guy on the far post.

 

[bucks_oil]

This is one of the single most profoundly idiotic things I've ever read on here. A team that just won six straight playoff games (WITHOUT Skinner) is mentally weak because they can't prevent their mentally weak goalie from allowing shots that should be routine saves to get past him?

Skinner let in two objectively bad goals earlier in the game, and you children decide to blame everything on Draisaitl for a buzzer beater where Skinner was nowhere near his net? Even if we play into your little game and blame that one on Drai, Skinner is STILL more at fault for the loss than Draisaitl since math tells me being responsible for two goals allowed is more detrimental than being responsible for one.

Yes, when players cough up the puck and allow chances against a goalie, they have most certainly f***ed up, but when the opposing player uses that opportunity to take a weak shot that a league average goalie is expected to stop and that shot becomes a goal, well...sorry, that goal is now mostly on the goalie.

I don’t think anyone here is defending Skinner on the earlier goals.

I personally laid them all out… 1st thru 4th. And they started horrendous and got progressively more forgivable from the goalies perspective.

Why can’t we have a conversation where the goalie F’s up on the actual goals where he made a mistake without having to concede/blame EVERY goal on him?

Drai made a mistake on the last goal, not a big one. Skinner too, also NOT a big one if you’ve ever played the position. The main errors were in the slot… nobody picked up a trailer and both Nurse and McD had the same idea to leave their feet to block a shot that didn’t come.

You can say they did that because they lack confidence in their goalie. Maybe so….

But ultimately everyone’s gotta do their job… and on THAT play Skinner did his best to mop up a dog’s breakfast… so did Drai for that matter… neither solely or even primarily to blame.

You want to rail on Skinner, focus on goals one and two… those were terrible.

 

[MessierThanThou]

You want to rail on Skinner, focus on goals one and two… those were terrible.

I did...

Skinner let in two objectively bad goals earlier in the game, and you children decide to blame everything on Draisaitl for a buzzer beater where Skinner was nowhere near his net? Even if we play into your little game and blame that one on Drai, Skinner is STILL more at fault for the loss than Draisaitl since math tells me being responsible for two goals allowed is more detrimental than being responsible for one.

Yes, when players cough up the puck and allow chances against a goalie, they have most certainly f***ed up, but when the opposing player uses that opportunity to take a weak shot that a league average goalie is expected to stop and that shot becomes a goal, well...sorry, that goal is now mostly on the goalie.

 

[M Ace]

Everything conspired on Drai there. The curvature of his blade, the fact that he could've scored on that shot from that angle and that being his cognition. Feel sorry for the guy. Own goals like that can be awful. I've mentioned football several times in discussion. You could be the best defender on the planet but if the ball is coming at you on the line and your goalie has vacated its the single worst hell. Its the play all defenders, no matter how good they are have nightmares of in Football. Seen so many top defenders kick ball right in their own net. I've done it too.

Andrés Escobar did in the 1994 World Cup......

 

[Fishy McScales]

But isn’t this the issue? The guy doesn’t think there’s anything to clean up. At least that hasn’t been evident in any interview I’ve ever seen him give.

Issues with talent have never been personal with me until Stu came along. I can tolerate and even respect a guy who sucks at hockey and will at least admit he has areas he needs to work on. Stu never does that. How telling is it that he refers to the rest of the team as “them”, when he says he gave them a chance to win? That’s not a misspoken word or an issue of semantics, that’s a guy who is clearly laying the blame on his teammates while taking no issue with his own play. When has McD or Drai or Pickard or anyone else ever not spoken of the team as a collective?

He’s untouchable and beyond criticism, both in his own mind and in the eyes of the local press, and it drives people up the wall. A positive attitude is important for sure, but you also have to be honest with yourself. That’s what missing here. He’ll never improve because he’s too arrogant to see any of his own weaknesses.

Honestly I don't see it when people call Stu arrogant. It's just not in his character at all, he seems like a super chill dude.

Which is part of the problem. I don't think Stu fully gets it. He doesn’t understand winning, while guys like Connor and Leon do.

I think that's why they never seem to go out of their way to praise him the way they do Pickard. Not because he's arrogant or a bad teammate, but because he doesn't give 100% all the time the way they do, and doesn't recognise when it's time to own up to poor play. They're miles better than him but take responsibility for their poor play every single of the few times it happens. Skinner rarely if ever does, because I just don't think he gets it fully.

Anyway, enough with the parasocial analysis for today. Go Oilers.

 

[bucks_oil]

Honestly I don't see it when people call Stu arrogant. It's just not in his character at all, he seems like a super chill dude.

Which is part of the problem. I don't think Stu fully gets it. He doesn’t understand winning, while guys like Connor and Leon do.

I think that's why they never seem to go out of their way to praise him the way they do Pickard. Not because he's arrogant or a bad teammate, but because he doesn't give 100% all the time the way they do, and doesn't recognise when it's time to own up to poor play. They're miles better than him but take responsibility for their poor play every single of the few times it happens. Skinner rarely if ever does, because I just don't think he gets it fully.

Anyway, enough with the parasocial analysis for today. Go Oilers.

I think there is some truth to this.

He's lacking a bit of competitive fire, whereas Pickard has plenty.

Skinner is typically a "do my best and see what happens" guy, whereas Pickard is a "my best isn't quite good enough, how can I give more".

To be honest, that's why I liked Skinner's effort and improvisation on the last goal. He was caught out too high and he FOUGHT to have that puck going wide. That took some fire and jam, which I love seeing from him. He was competing! Other nights he'd have shrunk back toward has crease and Reilly would have had all kinds of options.

 

[TB12]

You're just being obtuse. You can clearly see he has a shot angle at the net in that frame. Yes Skinner being there forced him to hold onto it longer I suppose, but it doesn't mean he didn't have an angle to score from because he obviously did and missed his shot.

No point in even conversing with this guy. He's being very obtuse and just obfuscating the issue. He's been a Stu defender all year and has continuously blamed Connor and Drai to stick up for piece of shit Moustache.

Now he's playing the "well aktually hurr durr" card with a whole heaping of whataboutism so that the blame doesn't fall squarely on fat Stu's very slow and awkward feet. Which it absolutely should. Skinner is a clown and #1 reason Oil aren't up 3-0 and that Connor and Leon don't have even 1 ring.

 

[Canovin]

View attachment 1033882

redline is direction of travel, puck is currently located in the red circle.

Craziest part about this actually actually now that I've watched it a few dozen times, Draisaitl could've absolutely let this go. Look at Karlsson, he's not getting jack shit on that pass.

View attachment 1033884

Not to overlook Skinner here either. So in this picture, Stuart Skinner has begun moving after the fake shot from Smith. One problem, in the frame before, Skinner doesn't move quick enough to get his feet and body set to the original shot that ended up being faked. The result is what you see below.

Firstly, he's out of position. The yellow line here matches the goalie's centre of mass with the centre of the goal. Ideally, you'd like for the puck or at least the shooter's eyes to be in line with the yellow. Skinner's body is about 2 feet behind Smith and 4 feet behind the puck. What this causes is when Skinner has to butterfly slide he's not square to the net, so instead of taking the ideal (blue) route, he pushes along the red line which exposes the crease. This is all literally caused by Skinner not getting set for the original opportunity.

View attachment 1033889

The puck was going at an angle and towards the far post. It wasn't travelling like the red line shown here.

 

[OfCorsiDid]

The puck was going at an angle and towards the far post. It wasn't travelling like the red line shown here.

No it wasn’t. The angle was actually a few degrees AWAY from the net.

 

[MessierII]

The puck was going at an angle and towards the far post. It wasn't travelling like the red line shown here.

Still wasn’t going in is the point. Is what it is. Just win tonight.

 

[Jarvi]

This is one of the single most profoundly idiotic things I've ever read on here. A team that just won six straight playoff games (WITHOUT Skinner) is mentally weak because they can't prevent their mentally weak goalie from allowing shots that should be routine saves to get past him?

Skinner let in two objectively bad goals earlier in the game, and you children decide to blame everything on Draisaitl for a buzzer beater where Skinner was nowhere near his net? Even if we play into your little game and blame that one on Drai, Skinner is STILL more at fault for the loss than Draisaitl since math tells me being responsible for two goals allowed is more detrimental than being responsible for one.

Yes, when players cough up the puck and allow chances against a goalie, they have most certainly f***ed up, but when the opposing player uses that opportunity to take a weak shot that a league average goalie is expected to stop and that shot becomes a goal, well...sorry, that goal is now mostly on the goalie.

Way to completely misrepresent what I said. That comment was not only intended for who I quoted, but a lot of the people you see absolving the big guys of any blame and getting wild with the "team hates skinner" conspiracies.

No, I don't believe this team is mentally weak, in fact I think they can win the cup. But it's not gonna happen if the big guys aren't playing up to their standards on both sides of the puck, which they haven't the last 2 games for large stretches. And I bet they know they haven't been up to snuff and will use it to fuel themselves tonight, rather than continue like the the loss was "all skinners fault" like some here act, when they had multiple egregious breakdowns or missed opportunities themselves in the last 2, and Skinner took the shot away at the last second until...

There was 59m:59.2s of hockey played before Skinner was out of frame, it matters too. Same with his earlier goals, ya he should have had atleast 1 of them, but I think 3/4 were after stupid plays by the team that just have to be cleaned up if we want a chance with any goaltender we have.

IF they left that loss and took no blame on themselves and continued large stretches of poor play en route to getting knocked out by VGK, I would maybe have some questions or at the least, be pissed. But I have a lot of faith they are better than that.

 

[TB12]

IF they left that loss and took no blame on themselves and continued large stretches of poor play en route to getting knocked out by VGK, I would maybe have some questions or at the least, be pissed. But I have a lot of faith they are better than that.

So you keep shitting on two of the best players in the world to prop up shitty Skinner. To the bolded, I sure as shit didn't hear him take any accountability post-game. So different standards here, hey?

 

[brentashton]

So you keep shitting on two of the best players in the world to prop up shitty Skinner. To the bolded, I sure as shit didn't hear him take any accountability post-game. So different standards here, hey?

Bang on.

Skinner is the king of “I had my man”. To suggest 97 and 29 aren’t carrying the mail? FFS.

Did they have less than premier game . Sure, it happens. Will it continue? Suspect not as it hasn’t other times during their careers.

Will Skinner continue to avoid meaningful self assessment of his performance?

Magic 8 ball says absolutely.

 

[Niten Ichi Ryu]

That was Stu last season when he had some solid stretches under his belt. He has been shit this entire season.

Shut out. Thats the Skinner that carried us to game 7

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Shut out. Thats the Skinner that carried us to game 7

Let's hope that he has more games like this in him so that Pickard can heal up and be ready if he's needed again!

 

[Jarvi]

So you keep shitting on two of the best players in the world to prop up shitty Skinner. To the bolded, I sure as shit didn't hear him take any accountability post-game. So different standards here, hey?

You are so simplistic. Shitting on them? They made bad plays, I pointed them out. Pretty weak if they can't take some criticism, thankfully I think our boys are bigger than that as even our media seems to agree they need to be better than these last two if we want to have a realistic shot at the cup.

Yeah, there is different standards for the 2.6m goaltender and the 10m+ fwds, or 9 million dollar Dman. Idgaf what they say in post game for the most part.

No, I'm not propping up Skinner. I wanted to get an upgrade, but he's our only realistic option rn. I'm not gonna throw him under the bus when the team shits the bed, just because he has failed in the past.

And would you look at that, the team plays to their potential in front of him, and doesn't do dumb shit, and he pitches a shutout.