Rumor: Lindholm Mega Thread: All Rumors/Proposals Go Here

[dracom]

Uh huh, potential franchise top two picks don't hold value over RFA stars? Ok....

Hampus is Crosby in this analogy....

Ok... really strong point, see if you can trade Hampus for either Nolan or Timmy on draft day.

When did either of those two picks become franchise picks? Jeez, people love potential over actual proven talent on here. Might as well trade every player your team has for picks and prospects because they'll obviously end up being better.

 

[Sojourn]

Uh huh, potential franchise top two picks don't hold value over RFA stars? Ok....

Hampus is Crosby in this analogy....

Ok... really strong point, see if you can trade Hampus for either Nolan or Timmy on draft day.

Over a potential franchise defenseman, who is already in the NHL and playing at a high level?

No. No, they don't.

And why would Anaheim trade Lindholm at the draft? Did it really not occur to you that the obstacle to that trade isn't just the team drafting 1st or 2nd overall? Teams won't want to give up a known commodity like Lindholm for a mystery box. Even one wrapped in really pretty wrapping paper.

 

[dracom]

And reality where you couldn't trade Hampus for either of those players?

It's cute that people are talking about Lindholm like he's elite. He might take that next step and he might not.

You realize Lindholm is closer to being elite than two players who haven't even touched NHL ice yet right? Neither of those players are on McDavids level.

 

[Sojourn]

And reality where you couldn't trade Hampus for either of those players?

It's cute that people are talking about Lindholm like he's elite. He might take that next step and he might not.

And yet, somehow, these undrafted prospects already qualify as elite?

I'm trying to think of the word that fits that argument. It isn't cute. Hmm. Oh, stupid. Stupid is the word I'm looking for. That's a stupid argument.

 

[LondonKendrick]

And yet, somehow, these undrafted prospects already qualify as elite?

I'm trying to think of the word that fits that argument. It isn't cute. Hmm. Oh, stupid. Stupid is the word I'm looking for. That's a stupid argument.

Again, REALITY no GM trades either those prospects for Hampus.

1 OA, 2 OA then a drop off in this draft... so yes those 'prospects' hold more value. Just like Matthews held more value than Getzlaf last year. Ummm..... you're being deliberately obtuse which only strengthens me staying that Ducks fans are over valuing Lindholm (call him Crosby again that was cuuuute).

 

[LondonKendrick]

You realize Lindholm is closer to being elite than two players who haven't even touched NHL ice yet right? Neither of those players are on McDavids level.

So McDavid is the only prospect in recent years with more value than Lindholm? An potential all time great is the only prospect with more value that an above average top pairing blueliner? This is telling of your grasp of his value.

 

[oXo Cube]

It's 24th highest Cap hit for defensemen in the NHL, so yes - he's paid like a 1D. I agree that he's a good 3D, but that's not what his pay is.

That isn't how it works though. Contracts aren't signed in some vacuum where every player has equal leverage and is paid entirely according to their on ice performance. Sekeras comparables are players in the #2-3 range who had UFA status.

Players who are better than him(Seabrook, Byfuglien) have earned significantly more and players who are similar to him(Petry, Boychuk) have been paid in a similar range.

As a future example, Brent Burns actually is a #1 D-man with upcoming UFA status and he is going to get paid a heck of a lot more than 5.5M

And no, I said you're in a position where you can land the top free agents (which is a far cry from the best players in the NHL) if you overpay on money and term. Of course, that just means you're like every other team in the NHL. When a top free agent takes a pay CUT to play in Edmonton so they can play with mcdavid, THEN you can brag.

Right, I wasn't trying to brag at all. I'm simply saying that Edmonton being in this spot is actually a huge improvement. It's a big step up from the days of players like Hossa and Nylander deliberately taking less elsewhere just to avoid having to play for the Oilers.

I don't mean to sound like I'm belittling what it's been like to root for Edmonton, because I'm not. Competent management is finally doing what should have been done years ago. But it's still not a destination of choice, and it's not like the Ducks are a horrible team in a horrible city in a horrible climate. It's going to take more than a couple extra dollars to get someone to go to a team that's still years away from contending in a far worse climate.

There are no worries here, I did not and don't believe you were ever doing this.

Every market is different. Some have inherent advantages over others and it's just the way it is.

 

[DisneyDucky]

the quality of most these discussions make me question if I am on a forum for 1st graders

 

[dracom]

Again, REALITY no GM trades either those prospects for Hampus.

1 OA, 2 OA then a drop off in this draft... so yes those 'prospects' hold more value. Just like Matthews held more value than Getzlaf last year. Ummm..... you're being deliberately obtuse which only strengthens me staying that Ducks fans are over valuing Lindholm (call him Crosby again that was cuuuute).

Not really understanding what an analogy is are you? Wasn't saying Lindholm is Crosby, I was saying you basically believe unproven talent is more valuable than a player who has actually proven himself to be elite or borderline elite.

You're trying to say players who haven't even been drafted yet are more valuable and are more elite than a 22 year old, proven, borderline elite player.

 

[McDavyCrockett]

Nobody else was giving Lucic 7 years at that salary the way he was breaking down. Sekera got paid like a 1D until the age of 35, and he's not. Edmonton overpaid both on salary and term for two declining players, don't underestimate the lure of job security on potentially your last contract. Both players were essentially transients in California as well.

Lol. You make it sound like there is an upside to spending more years living in Edmonton as opposed to Los Angeles. As an Edmontonian expat who's been living in L.A. over the past year for med school, let me tell you that I would gladly take 4 million to stay here rather than get paid 6 million+ *anywhere* in Canada.

LA offered Lucic more term than Edmonton at his current salary at the time. LA offered Sekera the same money on a shorter term, and it was widely perceived to be a market value contract for the best UFA defenseman of the 2015 class......they both chose McDavid at extended terms in cold, snowy, sub-arctic Edmonton over sunny Tinseltown.

Again, do you really think that we're gonna have to offer Lindholm more than 7 mil on an OS to get him to sign without blinking?

 

[Sojourn]

Again, REALITY no GM trades either those prospects for Hampus.

1 OA, 2 OA then a drop off in this draft... so yes those 'prospects' hold more value. Just like Matthews held more value than Getzlaf last year. Ummm..... you're being deliberately obtuse which only strengthens me staying that Ducks fans are over valuing Lindholm (call him Crosby again that was cuuuute).

Of course they don't. Lindholm wouldn't be available for them.

Your entire argument in this thread seems to be an awful lot of trying to pat yourself on the back, while you repeatedly put your foot in your mouth. I suppose that's one way to have a discussion, but saying it strengthens your argument suggests your argument had merit to begin with.

GM's don't move talents like Lindholm for question marks. There's a reason guys like Larsson and Seth Jones went for players like Hall and Johansen, and not prospects. It isn't because those prospects wouldn't be available. It's because it's the height of stupidity to move an established young talent for a complete unknown. High end D talents like that are among the most valuable commodities in the NHL. You don't squander that value by rolling the dice on a draft pick.

Edit: Lindholm isn't some top 4 quality D prospect. He's a top pairing defenseman, at the age of 22, who has #1 D potential. The bottom line is that the difference in potential, at this point in time, is still overshadowed by the difference in actual play. I'd even be willing to concede that Lindholm has less potential than Nolan Patrick. Just for the sake of argument. But he's a much safer bet, at this point, to hit his potential, and Nolan Patrick's upside isn't so great that a GM would ignore this.

 

[Bond]

Lindholm for D. Hamilton.

No take backs

 

[go4hockey]

Lol no way you creaxy man... We will not give up on two first rounders for Lindholm... And Desharnais has 1 year left... we will live with it for one more year...

No need to worry as there is no way the Ducks accept that offer and it's not even close.

 

[dracom]

So McDavid is the only prospect in recent years with more value than Lindholm? An potential all time great is the only prospect with more value that an above average top pairing blueliner? This is telling of your grasp of his value.

What are you even saying? Lol

The first two picks aren't on McDavids level, which is being close to elite without having played in the NHL. You keep suggesting that the first two picks this year are closer to being elite than a 22 year, borderline elite defenseman.

Your arguments are cute and so terribly wrong.

 

[go4hockey]

Sergachev will be better than lindholm
No way habs do this

Do you even know who Lindholm is or take a little time to watch him. Your kid has miles to go before he is as good or better than Lindholm but good luck on the happening.

 

[McDraekke]

That isn't how it works though. Contracts aren't signed in some vacuum where every player has equal leverage and is paid entirely according to their on ice performance. Sekeras comparables are players in the #2-3 range who had UFA status.

Players who are better than him(Seabrook, Byfuglien) have earned significantly more and players who are similar to him(Petry, Boychuk) have been paid in a similar range.

As a future example, Brent Burns actually is a #1 D-man with upcoming UFA status and he is going to get paid a heck of a lot more than 5.5M



Right, I wasn't trying to brag at all. I'm simply saying that Edmonton being in this spot is actually a huge improvement. It's a big step up from the days of players like Hossa and Nylander deliberately taking less elsewhere just to avoid having to play for the Oilers.



There are no worries here, I did not and don't believe you were ever doing this.

Every market is different. Some have inherent advantages over others and it's just the way it is.

Burns is going to make a disgusting amount of money soon. Well-deserved too.

In regards to the rest of the thread: This is the prototypical "team A won't trade their assert for a group of smaller assets, team B won't trade single asset with similar value as it creates a hole to fill one" trade. Just doesn't seem like there's a trade here (at least according to the fans of the teams).

 

[Ducks in a row]

To Mtl :
Lindholm

To Anaheim :
Sergachev
Scherbak
Desharnais (cap dump)

Nope not even close to getting Lindholm

 

[sansabri]

It'd have to be Sergachev++ and I still doubt the Ducks bite as they'd most likely want someone who can play top minutes right now.

 

[Ducks DVM]

I know 100% what I am talking about, try to keep up...

This is what you said, and, as I said, he's got a 5M+ offer on the table, so no, your math appears quite suspect comparing 5M to NOTHING.

Gross overpayment? I d say 5mil versus NOTHING is pretty massive overpayment.

Ducks have about 3 weeks to get ducks in a row or we ll see a sheet for sure. Nobody is expecting Lindholm to sit for a year.

Primarily they work because the player signs them. Come december 1st and Lindholm will sign any scrap that lets him play. Then ANA matches and **he gets his ask**.

Another reason to sign is the term. Look at ROR and Hammer sheets for reference. Short contracts.

5.6 mil with no UFA years is much much better offer than 5.3 x 6 or whatever the ANA offer is.

And how many players have signed them, if it's so easy? I already said that Anaheim would match any reasonable contract offer he gets, so all that contract does is poison the well between management crews - which is why there's so few reasonable offer sheets, if you're trying to keep up with my posts, you've just reiterated what I already said, without discussing the consequences I've covered.

Lindholm has said his primary goal is job security. That means the longer the contract the better. Those offer sheets are irrelevant to what the PLAYER has said he wants.

Also, a 5 year contract is into his UFA years.

 

[Ducks in a row]

Plus I doubt the Oilers want to help the Ducks with their little problem child. 29 other teams are better off with Lindholm sitting on the sidelines

A team acquiring Lindholm is better off then Lindholm sitting on the sidelines.

 

[KevinRedkey]

Pool Party + Nurse + 1st

I assume that's the most realistic offer Anaheim would entertain (that Edmonton could/would offer). Anything with Draisatl or McDavid is likely a non starter from Edmonton's point of view. I'm not sure the offer above is what Anaheim's looking for but if it's not, then I don't see it happening at all. Anaheim wouldn't unreasonable to say anything without McDavid of Draisatl is a non-starter.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Pool Party + Nurse + 1st

I assume that's the most realistic offer Anaheim would entertain (that Edmonton could/would offer). Anything with Draisatl or McDavid is likely a non starter from Edmonton's point of view. I'm not sure the offer above is what Anaheim's looking for but if it's not, then I don't see it happening at all. Anaheim wouldn't unreasonable to say anything without McDavid of Draisatl is a non-starter.

Pretty much were bad trade partners, specially being in Division... giving the oilers lindholm prob puts em over the top

 

[spaghtti]

Nobody else was giving Lucic 7 years at that salary the way he was breaking down. Sekera got paid like a 1D until the age of 35, and he's not. Edmonton overpaid both on salary and term for two declining players, don't underestimate the lure of job security on potentially your last contract. Both players were essentially transients in California as well.

quote from Lucic before July 1st,

On what Lucic is looking for in a team: “It’s not all about the money, you want to be at a place where you have fun at the rink.†… “Winning is a big thing for me, I have not won the Cup since 2011, once you get that taste, you want to re-live it.â€

quit trying to talk crap and stick with the subject of the thread

 

[Viqsi]

Again, REALITY no GM trades either those prospects for Hampus.

FYI, capitalizing the word "REALITY" doesn't actually assign said property to your assertions. It's probably unlikely, but there have been plenty of scenarios before where really top picks have been moved for immediate benefits.

 

[Homesick]

Yes, his production has been diminishing for years. Pretty easy to fact check that.
.

So why didn't you do it if its so easy?
Lucic
2014-15 81GP 18G 26A 44Pts
2015-16 81GP 20G 35A 55Pts