Prospect Info: Lias Andersson - Part IV

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

The critics who want to blame the Rangers are lumping them together, but I see two differences. One, the talent level, and two, Kravtsov has already clearly made amends with the organization, as he already returned to Hartford, and practiced with the team inside the bubble. I still see a future here for Kravtsov; I don't see one for Andersson.

The hope has to be he regains some confidence and passion to play in Sweden. That means giving him time. He needs learn what kind of player he needs to be (and can be) to be effective and add value to the team. That takes time. One knock I had on Dubinsky, when he was here, was he never seemed to know what kind of player he was. And it showed in his inconsistency.

We've seen in these playoffs how important depth and a longer lineup is. If Andersson can become a 3C, that is of enormous value to this team. And I don't think that is too much of a stretch for him.

 

[NYSPORTS]

i don’t put Kravtsov and Andersson in the same situation. Do I like that Kravtsov exercised his clause to go back? Not really but that’s perfectly normal for a Russian prospect and sure enough he came right back. He’s shown some immaturity for sure but certainly not a lack of effort n

what Andersson has done since day one is on him. Including embarrassing himself at traverse city showing up out of shape.

but they both left

If Andersson was such a head case then didn’t the scout miss something significant? And how can they be trusted with the rest of the picks?

 

[mas0764]

I think there’s a lot of coddling going on here for a kid that we know can be a baby. He didn’t get mins he thought he deserved from the start of the season and instead of working thru it like most legit nhl rookies do he sulked and sulked and sulked until he was demoted and then he sulked some more and went home. Brett Howden on the other hand played wherever they put him good or bad worked and worked and worked and kept his mouth shut. He’s a first round pick too. He didn’t complain and the coaches started to trust him more. This isn’t on the organization there mistake was drafting this kid so high. This is on the player for thinking he deserved something he didn’t. He also showed up to camp the first two years out of shape. You think that earns you any points? It doesn’t.

this is 100% on him

Kinda a one-sided and probably incorrect analysis of what truly and fully happened.

 

[mas0764]

Agreed, you'd think they spend a good amount of time with these potential top 10 picks before the draft. They should be aware of any "attitude issues."
I think it comes down to lack of communication from the organization along with a little immaturity from the two of them. They had certain expectations, and arguably earned them in preseason, only to get demoted. As a 19-20 year old who is used to being one of the top guys that can certainly be frustrating. It would be nice if they handled their business like Chytil or Kakko but when you have AHL level talent, a defenseman and Brett Howden playing ahead of you after a solid camp and preseason, I would be pissed too.
Plus that BS 180 BPM heart rate test.

Yeah, certainly there was immaturity on the part of one or both of Andersson and Kravtsov.

And without that immaturity on their part, these temporary separations probably never occur.

In Andersson's case, its much worse. It's not fully healed yet (if ever) and he basically admitted to throwing in the towel and not doing the things a professional athlete needs to do (like staying up all night long playing video games).

That being said the organization needs to do more as well. A 19 year old kid in the NHL maybe should have the expectation of being able to jump through the hoops, but at the end of the day, these are still just 19 year old kids. When I was 19 I was coasting through college staying up all night playing a lot of video games and so were probably almost all the people on here criticizing his behavior.

Some 19 year olds aren't mature enough to know what's good for them and being good at hockey doesn't make them immune from that.

The organization needs to realize that some 19 year olds are more mature than others and on top of that needs to realize that it can demand different things from a 24 year old than it can a 19 year old.

For every handful of Kakkos who will come in and work their tail off, there may be an Andersson or Kravtsov who needs some babying, for lack of a better word. You probably need a handler assigned to these guys to make sure they are living right, eating right, and doing the right things during their down time. Basically for these young kids they should have to report in and have their work double checked. Don't just cut them loose after practice. They should be eating meals with mentors and spending a couple nights a week with them. Someone who speaks their language and can follow up, especially when their families are overseas or far away.

 

[Raspewtin]

but they both left

If Andersson was such a head case then didn’t the scout miss something significant? And how can they be trusted with the rest of the picks?

Yes, that much is obvious.

The infamous Traverse City Gordie video really sealed this.

 

[Off Sides]

I think part of the problem is that the organization went with the "we want to get them under team control as soon as possible" approach. As a result, you had kids playing in the AHL at a younger age than this organization was accustomed to. While that worked for an 18 year old Chytil, it might not have worked for a 19 year old Andersson and Kravtsov. Factoring in cultural and language barriers, that approach potentially requires a different type of support network than the one you implement for a 20 or 21 year old Minnesota kid coming out of college.

I don't think the Rangers were fully prepared for what that required.

I also wonder what was conveyed to all of them leading up to the signing of their entry levels. Did the prospects set their own expectations about how soon they'd make and stay in the NHL or did they have some help setting those expectations.

 

[Edge]

I also wonder what was conveyed to all of them leading up to the signing of their entry levels. Did the prospects set their own expectations about how soon they'd make and stay in the NHL or did they have some help setting those expectations.

I doubt much in the way of specifics was shared with the kids.

Typically the comments are pretty mundane, "We like what you've done, we're excited to have you in the organization. We'd like you to come to camp so we can get a closer look at you and let's see how you do."

 

[Off Sides]

I doubt much in the way of specifics was shared with the kids.

Typically the comments are pretty mundane, "We like what you've done, we're excited to have you in the organization. We'd like you to come to camp so we can get a closer look at you and let's see how you do."

I would hope so, yet it does seem a little strange that both Lias and Kravtsov seemed to expect to make and stay in the NHL asap. Perhaps that was partially due to draft position, maybe they were getting bad advice from their side, maybe they did not look into the amount of D+1 draftees that make and stay in the NHL for that year, maybe the Rangers AHL environment needs a lot of work, yet maybe someone on the Rangers side was willing to say things they should not have to get them signed asap?

 

[Edge]

I would hope so, yet it does seem a little strange that both Lias and Kravtsov seemed to expect to make and stay in the NHL asap. Perhaps that was partially due to draft position, maybe they were getting bad advice from their side, maybe they did not look into the amount of D+1 draftees that make and stay in the NHL for that year, maybe the Rangers AHL environment needs a lot of work, yet maybe someone on the Rangers side was willing to say things they should not have to get them signed asap?

My guess is that for different reasons, the kids got in over their heads and reacted differently. While I'm sure there were things that could've been done differently, I don't know if its a terribly complicated matter either.

Part of the challenge with drafting kids from the other side of the world is that there's some culture shock, and in some cases, there's the safety net of pro hockey in their home country. That can make for an interesting combination with a 19 or 20 year old kid.

But I think the biggest challenge/mistake was not having different mechanisms in place to help with the transition.

 

[Off Sides]

My guess is that for different reasons, the kids got in over their heads and reacted differently. While I'm sure there were things that could've been done differently, I don't know if its a terribly complicated matter either.

Part of the challenge with drafting kids from the other side of the world is that there's some culture shock, and in some cases, there's the safety net of pro hockey in their home country. That can make for an interesting combination with a 19 or 20 year old kid.

But I think the biggest challenge/mistake was not having different mechanisms in place to help with the transition.

The desired optics that the rebuild was bearing fruit, at least in my opinion, was also a likely factor.

 

[East Coast Bias]

Yes, that much is obvious.

The infamous Traverse City Gordie video really sealed this.

Man it's been awhile. I remember them posting a video and then deleting it. What was this about again?

 

[Mac n Gs]

Man it's been awhile. I remember them posting a video and then deleting it. What was this about again?

We went into that tournament with so much hype and were potential favorites to win it. Then we completely shit the bed and Gordie did an exit interview where it looked like we murdered his family in front of him.

 

[kovazub94]

I think part of the problem is that the organization went with the "we want to get them under team control as soon as possible" approach. As a result, you had kids playing in the AHL at a younger age than this organization was accustomed to. While that worked for an 18 year old Chytil, it might not have worked for a 19 year old Andersson and Kravtsov. Factoring in cultural and language barriers, that approach potentially requires a different type of support network than the one you implement for a 20 or 21 year old Minnesota kid coming out of college.

I don't think the Rangers were fully prepared for what that required.

I agree with this and just wanted to point out something based on recent developments. So far only Non-US based prospects found “home” in foreign leagues, specifically places where they were born or grew up. Why American or Canadian kids have not not been sent? Because this transition is very difficult both ways. Coming to NA is very difficult, especially for Eastern European kids, especially for Russian ones because their world and mentality is so much different from North American. That’s why a certain level of maturity that generally comes only with age is required to make this transition successful.

To your point, the support system for the first year players that’s needed in this circumstances has been missing.

 

[kovazub94]

The critics who want to blame the Rangers are lumping them together, but I see two differences. One, the talent level, and two, Kravtsov has already clearly made amends with the organization, as he already returned to Hartford, and practiced with the team inside the bubble. I still see a future here for Kravtsov; I don't see one for Andersson.

I’d add to that that one of them was a wide-eyed Russian teen just coming over to NA for the first time, while the Swed (in comparison - a lot more closer lifestyle and mentality to North America) was already into his 3rd (!!!) season in North America.

 

[nyr2k2]

I agree with this and just wanted to point out something based on recent developments. So far only Non-US based prospects found “home” in foreign leagues, specifically places where they were born or grew up. Why American or Canadian kids have not not been sent? Because this transition is very difficult both ways. Coming to NA is very difficult, especially for Eastern European kids, especially for Russian ones because their world and mentality is so much different from North American. That’s why a certain level of maturity that generally comes only with age is required to make this transition successful.

To your point, the support system for the first year players that’s needed in this circumstances has been missing.

I'm curious about the "reverse switch" you mention. In North America, from junior hockey on up to the NHL, teams all have some level of a support program for young, foreign players coming over for the first time. It's obviously an important thing to have, as NA is the eventual goal for many/most of the top young players in the world.

Do teams in Europe and Russia have similar programs in place for players coming from North America? It's certainly not as common for young guys to go from NA to the other side of the pond, so I would imagine whatever programs are in place are maybe not as fleshed out as what you'd find here. What's more, most of the guys who do go from NA to Europe are a decent bit older when they make the jump than the other way around.

This is just my guess, though. Do you think this is correct, or am I off base?

 

[effen]

cant believe the scout missed Lias going back to Sweden 3 years later in his scouting trips. it was obvious.

 

[kovazub94]

I'm curious about the "reverse switch" you mention. In North America, from junior hockey on up to the NHL, teams all have some level of a support program for young, foreign players coming over for the first time. It's obviously an important thing to have, as NA is the eventual goal for many/most of the top young players in the world.

Do teams in Europe and Russia have similar programs in place for players coming from North America? It's certainly not as common for young guys to go from NA to the other side of the pond, so I would imagine whatever programs are in place are maybe not as fleshed out as what you'd find here. What's more, most of the guys who do go from NA to Europe are a decent bit older when they make the jump than the other way around.

This is just my guess, though. Do you think this is correct, or am I off base?

It’s hard to say because you want to think in comparison with the NHL. In the KHL foreign star players do get treated like stars so their transition is being closely monitored and assisted. Teams can help finding place to live, get a car with chauffeur, a translator etc. But we are talking a limited group of foreign players. Others? I’m sure there’s a level of support because still these players are typically valuable assets to these teams in all aspects (roster position and salaries) due to a limitation on a number of such foreign imports are allowed. On the other hand NHL is a superior league with better infrastructure and more money to spend.

 

[Leetch3]

cant believe the scout missed Lias going back to Sweden 3 years later in his scouting trips. it was obvious.

well he couldn't see that he can't skate so not surprising he couldn't see this either.

 

[nyr2k2]

It’s hard to say because you want to think in comparison with the NHL. In the KHL foreign star players do get treated like stars so their transition is being closely monitored and assisted. Teams can help finding place to live, get a car with chauffeur, a translator etc. But we are talking a limited group of foreign players. Others? I’m sure there’s a level of support because still these players are typically valuable assets to these teams in all aspects (roster position and salaries) due to a limitation on a number of such foreign imports are allowed. On the other hand NHL is a superior league with better infrastructure and more money to spend.

Right, and I probably should have focused more on "young" talent. What am I'm getting at is, is it tougher for a 19-22 year old guy going from NA to Europe/Russia than the other way around? You don't often see North American players in that age range going overseas. NA prospects will usually at least finish junior and give the AHL/ECHL a try for a few years before heading over. Kids 19-22 come to NA all the time, so NA teams are prepared for that (in theory).

I'm just thinking of it in terms of young guys who are still immature heading overseas as opposed to guys who are 24+ going over. There is probably a difference in maturity there, and I was just wondering if the KHL and other European teams had a system specifically to help young North Americans (again, given that most guys who go over are a bit older).

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

Right, and I probably should have focused more on "young" talent. What am I'm getting at is, is it tougher for a 19-22 year old guy going from NA to Europe/Russia than the other way around? You don't often see North American players in that age range going overseas. NA prospects will usually at least finish junior and give the AHL/ECHL a try for a few years before heading over. Kids 19-22 come to NA all the time, so NA teams are prepared for that (in theory).

I'm just thinking of it in terms of young guys who are still immature heading overseas as opposed to guys who are 24+ going over. There is probably a difference in maturity there, and I was just wondering if the KHL and other European teams had a system specifically to help young North Americans (again, given that most guys who go over are a bit older).

When Matthews went over his mom went with him and he played for a Marc Crawford if I'm remembering correctly

 

[UnSandvich]

Right, and I probably should have focused more on "young" talent. What am I'm getting at is, is it tougher for a 19-22 year old guy going from NA to Europe/Russia than the other way around? You don't often see North American players in that age range going overseas. NA prospects will usually at least finish junior and give the AHL/ECHL a try for a few years before heading over. Kids 19-22 come to NA all the time, so NA teams are prepared for that (in theory).

I'm just thinking of it in terms of young guys who are still immature heading overseas as opposed to guys who are 24+ going over. There is probably a difference in maturity there, and I was just wondering if the KHL and other European teams had a system specifically to help young North Americans (again, given that most guys who go over are a bit older).

Can't speak to the other leagues, but in terms of the KHL, there are exactly 2 North American players in the league below the age of 26 per their website, Ivan Lodnya and Brennan Menelle

 

[nyr2k2]

Can't speak to the other leagues, but in terms of the KHL, there are exactly 2 North American players in the league below the age of 26 per their website, Ivan Lodnya and Brennan Menelle

Wow, didn't realize that. Lodnia was just loaned, too.

 

[UnSandvich]

Wow, didn't realize that. Lodnia was just loaned, too.

I wouldn't be surprised if the site was giving me a false negative or something, but I sorted players by nationality, then just added a year at a time to the age bar, starting at 17, and going to 17-18, to 17-19, etc.

 

[nyr2k2]

I wouldn't be surprised if the site was giving me a false negative or something, but I sorted players by nationality, then just added a year at a time to the age bar, starting at 17, and going to 17-18, to 17-19, etc.

May be true, neither Kravtsov's nor Rykov's team have a single NA player under 26. CSKA has Leipsic who is 26 but that's it.

 

[kovazub94]

Right, and I probably should have focused more on "young" talent. What am I'm getting at is, is it tougher for a 19-22 year old guy going from NA to Europe/Russia than the other way around? You don't often see North American players in that age range going overseas. NA prospects will usually at least finish junior and give the AHL/ECHL a try for a few years before heading over. Kids 19-22 come to NA all the time, so NA teams are prepared for that (in theory).

I'm just thinking of it in terms of young guys who are still immature heading overseas as opposed to guys who are 24+ going over. There is probably a difference in maturity there, and I was just wondering if the KHL and other European teams had a system specifically to help young North Americans (again, given that most guys who go over are a bit older).

@UnSandvich ’s post confirms my suspicion that young Americans coming to the KHL is a rare occurrence. There are a few reasons but off-ice considerations are a big part of it. Listening and reading to older North American hockey players’ accounts of there time in Russia that most of them laugh off right now years later, these experiences could’ve really affected a less mature individual. I know some posters over here sometimes discount these difficulties from personal experiences and perspective, but an element of being expected to also perform at the highest level is huge. IMHO