Prospect Info: Lias Andersson - Part IV

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Give me a break. There is no equal "opportunity" clause in the labor agreement, is there? Why stop at comparing himself and his opportunities to Howden? Why not expecting to be given the same opportunities as Strome to center Panarin? I mean Andersson is as much of a top-10 pick, no?

The "undesirable" situation is fully on Andersson for dogging it first on the 4th line (IMHO) and then again when he was sent to Hartford before voluntarily deciding to leave it to return to Sweden in the middle of the season.

I’m not excusing Andersson in any way. He showed a disappointing backbone in the face or adversity. I’m arguing that it was still worth creating equal opportunity among underperforming players. I think if we did, we wouldn’t be in the situation we are now with a critical prospect outside the circle. Asset management was more critical than winning during the debacle and we failed miserably in that department with Andersson.

I can understand disagreement on the topic.
 
I’m not excusing Andersson in any way. He showed a disappointing backbone in the face or adversity. I’m arguing that it was still worth creating equal opportunity among underperforming players. I think if we did, we wouldn’t be in the situation we are now with a critical prospect outside the circle. Asset management was more critical than winning during the debacle and we failed miserably in that department with Andersson.

I can understand disagreement on the topic.

Yes, the disagreement/misunderstanding on this topic seems to be you not believing that this was instituted for all young players, and Andersson f***ed it up badly with his actions/attitude while Howden did not.
 
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Yes, the disagreement/misunderstanding on this topic seems to be you not believing that this was instituted for all young players, and Andersson f***ed it up badly with his actions/attitude while Howden did not.

Whatever you mean by “this was instituted for all young players” is behind the scenes. Nobody here can speak to off-ice coaching expectations for young players that kept Howden up in the lineup and Andersson down. I haven’t heard anyone here justify coaching decisions based on what they saw on the ice, just justification of an assumed lapse of professionalism that occurred pre-demotion.
 
You’re missing my point. Howden was given the chance to play with better players and was demoted. He could make sense of the decision because he sucked with real opportunity. Lias was never afforded that. I think if Lias had been given that opportunity, he would’ve likely failed, but he probably wouldn’t have seen it as “being set up to fail” which led to a demotion.

You are missing the point, his attitude likely cost him those opportunities. Ive been part of these decisions before, you have two guys coming to the rink and they are pretty close but one guy thinks he belongs in the top 6 and the other guy is willing to take whatever role he is given. One guy sulks and the other says lets go. Its an easy decision when the players are close.
 
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Whatever you mean by “this was instituted for all young players” is behind the scenes. Nobody here can speak to off-ice coaching expectations for young players that kept Howden up in the lineup and Andersson down. I haven’t heard anyone here justify coaching decisions based on what they saw on the ice, just justification of an assumed lapse of professionalism that occurred pre-demotion.
Ok, what I did see. I saw nothing on the ice early this season that would lead me to believe that Howden deserved to stay as the 3rd line center. I also didn't see Andersson do absolutely anything in the NHL or AHL this year to show he deserved to be slotted into the Rangers 3rd line center position.

For Andersson, most damning was that if you didn't tell me who was the recent 7th OA draft pick, who was the D playing forward and who was a career 4th line plug with little NHL talent, I wouldn't have been able to point Andersson out when that line was on the ice.

I would also just point out that it wouldn't make logical sense for the Rangers to try and submarine their highest draft pick in over a decade. So yes, I also like to use logic to try and fill in the missing pieces of the puzzle.
 
You are missing the point, his attitude likely cost him those opportunities. Ive been part of these decisions before, you have two guys coming to the rink and they are pretty close but one guy thinks he belongs in the top 6 and the other guy is willing to take whatever role he is given. One guy sulks and the other says lets go. Its an easy decision when the players are close.

And, to add, that's what makes this even more profoundly disappointing. Did anyone think that when we drafted him that he'd be THAT guy? We all thought he'd do whatever it took, work hard every shift, and be 3rd line center wearing an "A" in a few years. He wasn't that. At all. Which is why everyone is on his ass.
 
And, to add, that's what makes this even more profoundly disappointing. Did anyone think that when we drafted him that he'd be THAT guy? We all thought he'd do whatever it took, work hard every shift, and be 3rd line center wearing an "A" in a few years. He wasn't that. At all. Which is why everyone is on his ass.
If the stuff about his feet is true, I wouldn't say he's this pouty petulant child that he's being painted as here
 
You are missing the point, his attitude likely cost him those opportunities. Ive been part of these decisions before, you have two guys coming to the rink and they are pretty close but one guy thinks he belongs in the top 6 and the other guy is willing to take whatever role he is given. One guy sulks and the other says lets go. Its an easy decision when the players are close.

1) Yeah sorry, this is no different than my opinion. We’re both just making an assumption.

2) One guy got the chance he felt he deserved and failed. Another didn’t. The reactions aren’t comparable.

Ok, what I did see. I saw nothing on the ice early this season that would lead me to believe that Howden deserved to stay as the 3rd line center. I also didn't see Andersson do absolutely anything in the NHL or AHL this year to show he deserved to be slotted into the Rangers 3rd line center position.

For Andersson, most damning was that if you didn't tell me who was the recent 7th OA draft pick, who was the D playing forward and who was a career 4th line plug with little NHL talent, I wouldn't have been able to point Andersson out when that line was on the ice.

I would also just point out that it wouldn't make logical sense for the Rangers to try and submarine their highest draft pick in over a decade. So yes, I also like to use logic to try and fill in the missing pieces of the puzzle.

Right on. A valid opinion. I still disagree, but I respect the take.
 
If the stuff about his feet is true, I wouldn't say he's this pouty petulant child that he's being painted as here

Maybe we'll never know the truth - but quitting on your team and high tailing it home is about as petulantly childish as you can get. I doubt the Rangers were pressuring him to play despite an injury for their AHL club. It doesn't make a lick of sense.
 
Maybe we'll never know the truth - but quitting on your team and high tailing it home is about as petulantly childish as you can get. I doubt the Rangers were pressuring him to play despite an injury for their AHL club. It doesn't make a lick of sense.
It wouldn't surprise me if there was a disagreement in the severity of what was wrong
 
Which is why I think the 'attitude problem' stuff is getting out of hand, if it wasn't already

That's where our views part ways, I guess. There's a right way to do things even if you feel you are being wronged - through your agent, through upper management, sit out, see another doctor, whatever. The answer is not to quit on your team and head home to Sweden a half a world away during the holidays and not coming back when you're a prospect trying to climb up the proverbial ladder.

Have you seen players do this before in this way? Some toil in the AHL for a decade and never get a sniff of the NHL and he couldn't last a few weeks. His choice and how he executed it are the problem for me. I don't care about tossing the medal, etc... If you want to succeed, earn ice, move to the next level, earn the respect of your coaches and teammates, this was not the way to go about it.

I realize he's a young man and young men don't always do the smartest things, but this was particularly dumb and will likely stick with him for a very long time.
 
That's where our views part ways, I guess. There's a right way to do things even if you feel you are being wronged - through your agent, through upper management, sit out, see another doctor, whatever. The answer is not to quit on your team and head home to Sweden a half a world away during the holidays and not coming back when you're a prospect trying to climb up the proverbial ladder.

Have you seen players do this before in this way? Some toil in the AHL for a decade and never get a sniff of the NHL and he couldn't last a few weeks. His choice and how he executed it are the problem for me. I don't care about tossing the medal, etc... If you want to succeed, earn ice, move to the next level, earn the respect of your coaches and teammates, this was not the way to go about it.

I realize he's a young man and young men don't always do the smartest things, but this was particularly dumb and will likely stick with him for a very long time.
Again, we don't have the information of what exactly happened to make that call
 
Again, we don't have the information of what exactly happened to make that call

The information is irrelevant. He handled this the wrong way, particularly for himself, no matter what the information is. There were other options in any event. I'll move along though - I get where you're coming from and, like I've said, we'll never know.
 
The information is irrelevant. He handled this the wrong way, particularly for himself, no matter what the information is. There were other options in any event. I'll move along though - I get where you're coming from and, like I've said, we'll never know.
I'm just saying, he might've gone to his agent with this, he could've gone to the team with this, etc. we just don't know if he did go about this the right or wrong way, so the lack of information isn't irrelevant, that's what I'm getting at here
 
I'm just saying, he might've gone to his agent with this, he could've gone to the team with this, etc. we just don't know if he did go about this the right or wrong way, so the lack of information isn't irrelevant, that's what I'm getting at here

He made public insinuations that would be pretty egregious to the organization if they were true, to the point where players association would have stepped in (and you know they are not shy about stepping in on players behalf). There were absolutely no factual support so sorry if I don’t believe other musings or guesses of Lias being somehow mistreated.
 
I'm just saying, he might've gone to his agent with this, he could've gone to the team with this, etc. we just don't know if he did go about this the right or wrong way, so the lack of information isn't irrelevant, that's what I'm getting at here

I think that you're being really generous with that assessment. Look at what he, himself, had to say in April:

"It wasn't just something that happened overnight, but it sneaked up on me," he told Rylander. "I had a hard time. ... I was injured, couldn't do anything about it. There were many small things that made it weigh. I started to get (into) bad habits off the ice."

It seemed to compound his feelings of melancholy, which manifested into poor eating and sleeping habits. He admitted that he began taking sleeping pills, which he said was in part due to undisclosed injuries to his feet.

"I didn't think hockey was fun anymore," he said. "I thought other things were more fun and more important."

"I sat playing video games all night, just waiting for the Swedes to wake up to go to work at home so I could call," Andersson said. "I had trouble sleeping and started taking a sleeping pill every now and then. ... It could have been worse if I let it continue."

He never went into detail and is now saying the organization was unaware of his emotional struggles before he left.

"I don't really want to talk about it that much, but they didn't know I had a hard time ," he said. "I'm just trying to leave it behind me. ... You may have to go through such things to be better as a person and a player."
 
Whatever you mean by “this was instituted for all young players” is behind the scenes. Nobody here can speak to off-ice coaching expectations for young players that kept Howden up in the lineup and Andersson down. I haven’t heard anyone here justify coaching decisions based on what they saw on the ice, just justification of an assumed lapse of professionalism that occurred pre-demotion.

Well, what we do know from his own admission is that he had spent nights away talking to his buddies in Sweden. Do you think that it’s a huge leap of faith to assume that it did Andersson no good when it came to him being alert and energetic during practices? Don’t you think coaches wouldn’t notice / pay attention to this, especially when the difference between him and Howden was so slim?
 
Well, what we do know from his own admission is that he had spent nights away talking to his buddies in Sweden. Do you think that it’s a huge leap of faith to assume that it did Andersson no good when it came to him being alert and energetic during practices? Don’t you think coaches wouldn’t notice / pay attention to this, especially when the difference between him and Howden was so slim?

Nights away? Where?

How would coaches know anything about what he did at night after practice in his room?

These are assumptions.
 
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