Let's talk defense...

[Rowley Birkin]

Ehrhoff ? Seriously ?

There's an abundance of bottom pairing 7/8 types in the squad now. (edit - that's not not say Ehrhoff is this) but now the Oduya thing is done hopefully TM puts his balls in the vice one more time. I'm not asking for a blockbuster just yet - but I see him having to move a roster player for a competent mid pairing type - also within that age range who he sees as part of the group moving forward.

 

[Zip15]

Ehrhoff ? Seriously ?

There's an abundance of bottom pairing 7/8 types in the squad now.

Hopefully TM puts his balls in the vice one more time. I'm not asking for a blockbuster just yet - but I see him having to move a roster player for a competent mid pairing type - also within that age range who he sees as part of the group moving forward.

That's a non-sequitur considering Ehrhoff is in no way a #7 or #8 type.

With that said, Ehrhoff won't be brought back given how things ended the first time around.

 

[BowieSabresFan]

Ehrhoff ? Seriously ?

There's an abundance of bottom pairing 7/8 types in the squad now.

Hopefully TM puts his balls in the vice one more time. I'm not asking for a blockbuster just yet - but I see him having to move a roster player for a competent mid pairing type - also within that age range who he sees as part of the group moving forward.

And you think Ehrhoff is a 7/8 type?

 

[slip]

With that said, Ehrhoff won't be brought back given how things ended the first time around.

I think you're right.

 

[Rowley Birkin]

Sorry - edited my post as when I read it back it didn't come across right.

I was trying to make two separate points. Just no to Ehrhoff after what has happened. I wasn't trying to suggest that he is a bottom pairing player.

The bottom pairing / 7 / 8 thing was more toward what the Sabres currently have at LD at the current time. McCabe being the only potential exception.

 

[Jame]

I don't think we need to sign someone for the sake of signing someone...

I think we are fine using this season to determine if one of our top 3 righties can transition to the left side.

I think we are fine using this season to see if we unearthed a genuine 3rd pair D in Matt Donovan.

I think we are fine using this season to determine if Gorges has any use going forward

I think we are fine using this season to determine if Weber's chemistry with Risto is legit.

I think we are fine letting Colaicovo play a bigger role this year, then would normally be preferred.

I think we are fine letting McCabe develope and finding out more about his future/potential.

 

[Rowley Birkin]

I don't think we need to sign someone for the sake of signing someone...

I think we are fine using this season to determine if one of our top 3 righties can transition to the left side.

I think we are fine using this season to see if we unearthed a genuine 3rd pair D in Matt Donovan.

I think we are fine using this season to determine if Gorges has any use going forward

I think we are fine using this season to determine if Weber's chemistry with Risto is legit.

I think we are fine letting Colaicovo play a bigger role this year, then would normally be preferred.

I think we are fine letting McCabe develope and finding out more about his future/potential.

I wouldn't disagree with any of these points individually - but when you are needing the majority of them to go your way you're likely going to be in trouble.

I think the Sabres need to add a competent 'top 4' LD before the start of the season. Someone who fits within the age range / mould that TM is clearly trying to build. I don't mind if he 'overpays' as he has supposedly done with previous trades.

I also think the Sabres will need - at some point within the next season or two - to make a bigger splash for a true 1st pairing type. But I'm willing to wait on this one to see how things develop.

 

[Jame]

I wouldn't disagree with any of these points individually - but when you are needing the majority of them to go your way you're likely going to be in trouble.

I think the Sabres need to add a competent 'top 4' LD before the start of the season. Someone who fits within the age range / mould that TM is clearly trying to build. I don't mind if he 'overpays' as he has supposedly done with previous trades.

I don't really need any of it to go our way...We don't have to solve every roster hole to perfection in one offseason.

If the right deal is out there... great. If not, it's really not a big deal at all.

The Sabres need 2 more top 4 defensemen to add to Bogo and Risto... they don't need them tomorrow.

I also think the Sabres will need - at some point within the next season or two - to make a bigger splash for a true 1st pairing type. But I'm willing to wait on this one to see how things develop.

This is the myth...

You don't need to add the "true top pairing type".

You need to add the right guy(s) to complete a top pairing.

Was Dan Girardi a "true 1st pairing type", or was he simply a good defensemen who made for a perfect partner for McDonagh?

I am perfectly comfortable using this season to find out if that guy already exists (Pysyk, McCabe, etc).

And if not, I want to find the right guy in Free Agency or Trade, but that doesn't mean we have to go out and get OEL. It might mean finding the right underappreaciated asset that a team can't keep/afford like Leddy/Boychuk were. Were they "true" first pairing guys?

 

[TossinSauce]

I think Franson will be next on their list.

Oduya choosing Dallas over Buffalo shows exactly why Murray needed to start going for it this year rather than sit around and collect more prospects. Buffalo needs to at least show that they can make a sniff at the playoffs this season before they're going to attract anything in free agency.

I do not want to touch Franson in FA. He will want a big contract and he seems like a defensive nightmare whenever I catch the Preds.

 

[Moskau]

I do not want to touch Franson in FA. He will want a big contract and he seems like a defensive nightmare whenever I catch the Preds.

I'm not a fan of his but he wouldn't be a complete disaster on the 3rd pairing. If Pysyk moves to the left side then Franson would be to take his spot. You could even pair Pysyk and Franson in that case. I'd take a shot at him if it's for 3 years or fewer.

 

[Rowley Birkin]

I don't really need any of it to go our way...We don't have to solve every roster hole to perfection in one offseason.

If the right deal is out there... great. If not, it's really not a big deal at all.

The Sabres need 2 more top 4 defensemen to add to Bogo and Risto... they don't need them tomorrow.

I'm not about to get into a debate with you - but with the moves made over the summer they are suggesting to me they want to accelerate things as much as possible. Not unrealistically so or to rush things - but to me at least it looks like the piece are being put in place for business to pick up sooner rather than later.

The bolded is absolutely a fact. But they will need at least one IMO who is ready to perform that role right from the very start of the season. I don't care who they have playing among the forwards - with the current 'D' they are nearer another lottery pick than anything else.

I also don't see anyone within the current system who can play - at the very minimum - a top 4 LD role (yet alone be a top pairing minute eating role) from the outset. This is open to debate obviously & is just my opinion.

This is the myth...

You don't need to add the "true top pairing type".

You need to add the right guy(s) to complete a top pairing.

Was Dan Girardi a "true 1st pairing type", or was he simply a good defensemen who made for a perfect partner for McDonagh?

I am perfectly comfortable using this season to find out if that guy already exists (Pysyk, McCabe, etc).

And if not, I want to find the right guy in Free Agency or Trade, but that doesn't mean we have to go out and get OEL. It might mean finding the right underappreaciated asset that a team can't keep/afford like Leddy/Boychuk were. Were they "true" first pairing guys?

Again I can't disagree with any of this. I am not expecting to be able to get OEL (believe me - you & I'm sure others would be scared with what I'd be prepared to give up for him in particular from the Sabres pov).

I just see so much potential strength at forward within the next couple of years - even a potential logjam - that it would be poor asset management not to use that in some part to strengthen the back end.

Basically in the long run - the ideal scenario at the back end fore me is as below.

xxxx - Ristolainen
yyyy - Bogosian
McCabe - Pysyk

You can play about with pairings - but yyyy is a guy we trade for before the season starts & xxxx may be a guy acquired in a larger move. There may be a chance either of these players exist in the current system - but to be honest at this stage I think that is wishful thinking.

I don't care if this diminishes some forward depth to achieve - I see that as being great enough even at this stage to be able to not worry. ANd at the end of the day I believe teams are built from the back out (as well as down the middle).

Either way - what kinds of players do you (& others) think can be targeted here ? I've seen you pimping Marc Stall... any others ?

 

[Jame]

I'm not about to get into a debate with you

yes you are.

- but with the moves made over the summer they are suggesting to me they want to accelerate things as much as possible. Not unrealistically so or to rush things - but to me at least it looks like the piece are being put in place for business to pick up sooner rather than later.

Yes, they've accelerated things.

If you think think the difference between 1 defensemen (being one that can logically be acquired) is the difference between being close to the lottery vs being close to the playoffs, you are off your rocker.

The bolded is absolutely a fact. But they will need at least one IMO who is ready to perform that role right from the very start of the season.

We have multiple options that could fill the role. The point is, we have the luxury of finding out.

I don't care who they have playing among the forwards - with the current 'D' they are nearer another lottery pick than anything else.

That's just being willfully ignorant of how this game works.

I also don't see anyone within the current system who can play - at the very minimum - a top 4 LD role (yet alone be a top pairing minute eating role) from the outset. This is open to debate obviously & is just my opinion.

I disagree.

I just see so much potential strength at forward within the next couple of years - even a potential logjam - that it would be poor asset management not to use that in some part to strengthen the back end.

But not enough to offset the perceived weakness on the blueline.

Newflash, great 2 way forwards lessen the load and thus make defensemen look better.

Basically in the long run - the ideal scenario at the back end fore me is as below.

xxxx - Ristolainen
yyyy - Bogosian
McCabe - Pysyk

You can play about with pairings - but yyyy is a guy we trade for before the season starts & xxxx may be a guy acquired in a larger move. There may be a chance either of these players exist in the current system - but to be honest at this stage I think that is wishful thinking.

I disagree. I think your presumption is silly at this point. It;s funny that you see this is the "ideal scenario".

I don't care if this diminishes some forward depth to achieve - I see that as being great enough even at this stage to be able to not worry. ANd at the end of the day I believe teams are built from the back out (as well as down the middle).

Trading from our core forward depth to fill a perceived hole would be a mistake. It's video game roster management

 

[LongWayDown37]

Basically in the long run - the ideal scenario at the back end fore me is as below.

xxxx - Ristolainen
yyyy - Bogosian
McCabe - Pysyk

Georges is only 30 at this point. He had a down year last year, but he is certainly still a good player. I think he can still be a long term middle-pair guy in the long run.

 

[TossinSauce]

I'm not a fan of his but he wouldn't be a complete disaster on the 3rd pairing. If Pysyk moves to the left side then Franson would be to take his spot. You could even pair Pysyk and Franson in that case. I'd take a shot at him if it's for 3 years or fewer.

I don't hate him, but he will want top 4 money/term and I don't see him as being worth it when we have guys like McCabe and Pysyk pushing for spots.

 

[Yatzhee]

Why fill the gap? Because you'd be better now, and no worse later?

Why win? Because winning?

Are you implying if we don't sign a vet we'll win less? If so, I disagree. With the current team strength in the east we're already a potential bubble team (depending on chemistry with our new roster), remind me me again how 1 mediocre 3/4 d man changes that in any significance as opposed to the young talent we have available?
Is it a 10 win difference? Really I'd like to know how you can possibly convince yourself of that.....

 

[Rowley Birkin]

yes you are.

No i'm not.

THe only thing I want to ask is who - as of today - do you see being able to step into the top 4 LD role & be able to perform ?

Also - as I asked before - who are your (& others) 'underappreciated' targets ?

 

[cybresabre]

If O'Reilly and Reinhart are all the number monkeys claim they are, why don't we just play with two right d on the right side? All the open space on the opposition's right wing will look so tantalizingly open... almost suspiciously so... that they'd probably avoid it.

 

[Jame]

No i'm not.

THe only thing I want to ask is who - as of today - do you see being able to step into the top 4 LD role & be able to perform ?

Also - as I asked before - who are your (& others) 'underappreciated' targets ?

Colaicovo, Weber, Pysyk, Gorges, McCabe

 

[signalIInoise]

From what I remember there was a proposal on the trade board including Theodore and Ducks fans said he was practically untouchable. Fowler was also brought up when we were trading Myers so he may be available given the right situation

Fans always think everyone's untouchable. There are dozens of once-untouchable players who've ended up on the outside of the league looking in. Everyone is touchable. Everyone is tradeable. Everyone, barring NMC, and that restriction really only tests your GMs willingness to dig deep and take the consequences.

 

[SoFFacet]

Basically in the long run - the ideal scenario at the back end for me is as below.

xxxx - Ristolainen
yyyy - Bogosian
McCabe - Pysyk

It's fairly likely that McCabe becomes top-4-worthy within 2-3 years.

Other than that though we don't have any other up and comers. We'll probably need a trade or UFA for the other top-4 LD spot. 3rd pair LD should never be hard to find.

 

[TehDoak]

I gotta think one of Gunnarsson or Quincy will break free before training camp for very little and they'd be a perfect transition d-man. Carle could also be had for very little

If the Bouwmeester rumors are true, that would obviously change things as well.

Here is my training camp lineup:

Pysyk-Risto
XXXX-Bogosian
Caro/Gorges-Rudwhedal
Weber

 

[Djp]

I don't think we need to sign someone for the sake of signing someone...

I think we are fine using this season to determine if one of our top 3 righties can transition to the left side.

I think we are fine using this season to see if we unearthed a genuine 3rd pair D in Matt Donovan.

I think we are fine using this season to determine if Gorges has any use going forward

I think we are fine using this season to determine if Weber's chemistry with Risto is legit.

I think we are fine letting Colaicovo play a bigger role this year, then would normally be preferred.

I think we are fine letting McCabe develope and finding out more about his future/potential.

I'm fine with the things you said.

I do see in the future--maybe not this summer---is Buffalo making a trade to acquire a young LHD in that 22-25 age range without trading McCabe.

the team has depth at winger to do such a deal.

such a deal does happen by this time next summer.

I wouldn't disagree with any of these points individually - but when you are needing the majority of them to go your way you're likely going to be in trouble.

I think the Sabres need to add a competent 'top 4' LD before the start of the season. Someone who fits within the age range / mould that TM is clearly trying to build. I don't mind if he 'overpays' as he has supposedly done with previous trades.

I also think the Sabres will need - at some point within the next season or two - to make a bigger splash for a true 1st pairing type. But I'm willing to wait on this one to see how things develop.

 

[Der Jaeger]

What if the future top 4 was:

Pysyk - Ristolainen
McCabe - Bogosian

3 years from now, if all develop as we think they should, that's a great top 4.

 

[Jame]

I gotta think one of Gunnarsson or Quincy will break free before training camp for very little and they'd be a perfect transition d-man. Carle could also be had for very little

If the Bouwmeester rumors are true, that would obviously change things as well.

Here is my training camp lineup:

Pysyk-Risto
XXXX-Bogosian
Caro/Gorges-Rudwhedal
Weber

Training camp we should try Pysyk, Carlo, Mccabe, Gorges etc with Bogo... and may the best chemistry win

Weber-Risto stay together

Everyone else competes for the bottom pair.

 

[Zman5778]

Georges is only 30 at this point. He had a down year last year, but he is certainly still a good player. I think he can still be a long term middle-pair guy in the long run.

That is absolutely yet to be determined.

Microfracture surgery is nothing certain.....and most who've had it don't come back to anywhere near where they were.

It's killed the career of a number of NBA players, and there's zero history with NHL players.

I'm not counting on him this season, if ever.