Post-Game Talk: Leafs win 6-3

[ER89]

If your toughness and physicality only comes out when your team is down 3 goals, it doesn't mean you hate to lose.

It means you are a whiny b*tch/sore loser/poor sport. And hockey has a lot of these types.

There is a low key reason game management is a thing, much as we all absolutely hate it. Blowouts create ugliness - pure and simple. If the score was tied, does Beagle still do that to Terry? Never in a million years.

I mean the biggest bunch are in our division in black and gold so we have first hand seats as to what a bitch looks like.

 

[ITM]

if you can hit a player while he's trying that move, that's great.

And with impunity, lol.

But if our guy does it...

 

[kb]

I mean the biggest bunch are in our division in black and gold so we have first hand seats as to what a bitch looks like.

Hahahaha......we have so many examples from that one team alone....lol

 

[Bluelines]

The best (and most entertaining) hockey I've ever was the 1987 Canada Cup final, many other international hockey battles are right up there too. No fights, just great hockey.

I'd argue that the Leafs in 93 were just as exciting. The St Lou series that year was the most exciting hockey I've watched, For this Leaf fan it was more exciting than the 87 series.

 

[LeafGrief]

The bolded may be true, however those are tournament style formats, same as the old Canada Cup, or World Cup, and those are a national team make up, so your typical "fighter" won't likely be on those teams. You can't compare that to regular season NHL (CHL), or even playoffs. Also.......fighting isn't allowed in NCAA, and it's also not allowed in any league, but it is penalized. Fights happen in the NCAA, but they get a suspension for the next game, plus they are mandated to wear full face shields/cages - kind of a deterrent itself.

I 100% disagree with your last statement though (getting rid of it overnight....). Fights serve more than just a self policing aspect of the game. We've seen it many times (although not so much recently) where a fight can swing momentum in a game. It can also serve as a release valve for tensions in a game - hence Simmons wanting the fight towards the end of the last Winnipeg game. In fact that last game against the Jets played out exactly how I wanted it to. Win the game, and get a 3 or more lead with enough time to take care of the business from the last game. Still would've been nice to have that last fight though, but the refs decided differently. That would not have been the case even just 3 or years ago.

Your entire second paragraph discusses the role that it plays in the game, but does not actually do anything to describe it as fundamental to hockey. There used to be no forward pass a hundred years ago, and I imagine most of us remember two-line offsides. Getting rid of fighting would absolutely change the NHL, yes. But it's still just a rule like any of the others. And while I understand the difference between tournaments and leagues, I'm making a point about the role of fighting in hockey. Tournaments are absolutely relevant examples.

I've played hockey my entire life. From the moment I could stand and hold a stick until my beer league game later today, I've played this game. I'm just a beer league duster, but I have never once played in a league that allows fighting. It may not be pretty what we're doing, but we're still playing hockey. If you take away the fighting, it's still hockey.

I understand the role that fighting plays in the NHL and other professional/junior leagues. As a part of those leagues, it directly effects the game. But if 99% of the people who will ever play this wonderful game don't fight, I don't see how anyone can argue that it's actually intrinsic to the game. It's cool if you like it and think it plays an important role in the NHL. But it isn't some sacred act that must be protected at all costs.

 

[zeke]

I'd argue that the Leafs in 93 were just as exciting. The St Lou series that year was the most exciting hockey I've watched, For this Leaf fan it was more exciting than the 87 series.

super fun underdog team for sure.

Matthews --- Gilmour
Marner ------ Andreychuk
Bunting ------ Clark

Tavares ------- Cullen
Nylander ----- Anderson
Kerfoot ------- Borchevsky

Kampf -------- Zezel
Mikheyev ----- Osborne
Engvall -------- Berg

Blackwell ------ Krushelnyski
Spezza -------- Foligno
Kase ----------- Manderville

Abbuzzese ------ Eastwood
Clifford ---------- Pearson
Simmonds ------ Baumgartner



Rielly ------------- Ellett
Brodie ------------ Lefebvre

Muzzin ----------- Macoun
Giordano --------- Mironov

Holl --------------- Rouse
Liljegren ---------- Gill

Sandin ------------ Berehowsky
Lyubushkin -------- McGill

 

[Gary Nylund]

And for those who said that "well, Terry knew what he was in for because he went into the scrum to stick up for a teammate" - just remember this. Did he ask for (or deserve) the unprovoked pummeling? The irony is that you'd all be bitching that they were "wussies" for not coming to the aid of a teammate if it were a Leaf. Imagine if that was Marner laid out instead of Terry?

I imagine that there would be far less people being so blase about what happened.

The bolded may be true, however those are tournament style formats, same as the old Canada Cup, or World Cup, and those are a national team make up, so your typical "fighter" won't likely be on those teams. You can't compare that to regular season NHL (CHL), or even playoffs. Also.......fighting isn't allowed in NCAA, and it's also not allowed in any league, but it is penalized. Fights happen in the NCAA, but they get a suspension for the next game, plus they are mandated to wear full face shields/cages - kind of a deterrent itself.

And if fighting was eliminated from the NHL, they wouldn't be on NHL teams either. I guess it's a matter of taste, personal preference and so on and some people love the fighting so much that they want to keep it and that's fine. I'm among those who doesn't mind a good fight but only if both guys are willing. I also think hockey would still be hockey without fighting and don't see a problem with moving in the direction of no more fights.

A friend of mine scored 60 goals in a 15 game season as a kid. He never played at a higher level because his mom wouldn't let him - too violent a game. Makes me wonder how much talent could have been in the league that never got there because their parents didn't let them play. Incidents like this one are absolutely disgusting and something needs to happen to 100% eliminate this garbage from the game.

 

[ACC1224]

No one actually believes that the entire incident was an attack on skilled players?

 

[Sypher04]

I imagine that there would be far less people being so blase about what happened.


And if fighting was eliminated from the NHL, they wouldn't be on NHL teams either. I guess it's a matter of taste, personal preference and so on and some people love the fighting so much that they want to keep it and that's fine. I'm among those who doesn't mind a good fight but only if both guys are willing. I also think hockey would still be hockey without fighting and don't see a problem with moving in the direction of no more fights.

A friend of mine scored 60 goals in a 15 game season as a kid. He never played at a higher level because his mom wouldn't let him - too violent a game. Makes me wonder how much talent could have been in the league that never got there because their parents didn't let them play. Incidents like this one are absolutely disgusting and something needs to happen to 100% eliminate this garbage from the game.

Sadly as long as Parros is in charge of DoPS we can assume things like this will continue to go unpunished

 

[Ziggdiezan]

If your toughness and physicality only comes out when your team is down 3 goals, it doesn't mean you hate to lose.

It means you are a whiny b*tch/sore loser/poor sport. And hockey has a lot of these types.

There is a low key reason game management is a thing, much as we all absolutely hate it. Blowouts create ugliness - pure and simple. If the score was tied, does Beagle still do that to Terry? Never in a million years.

Yup, there needs to be more protection for players not less when a team is getting blown out of the water and there is only a few minutes left. There will always be guys doing stupid things in those moments trying to cause pain and/or injury.

 

[ACC1224]

Yup, there needs to be more protection for players not less when a team is getting blown out of the water and there is only a few minutes left. There will always be guys doing stupid things in those moments trying to cause pain and/or injury.

Wasn't the whole thing started by Zegras stupidly chopping the goalie in a 5-0 game with a few minutes left?
He doesn't do that and the whole thing never happens.

 

[Superstar]

Wasn't the whole thing started by Zegras stupidly chopping the goalie in a 5-0 game with a few minutes left?
He doesn't do that and the whole thing never happens.

But it takes uber skills to chop a goalie in that instance though...

 

[Cams]

I imagine that there would be far less people being so blase about what happened.


And if fighting was eliminated from the NHL, they wouldn't be on NHL teams either. I guess it's a matter of taste, personal preference and so on and some people love the fighting so much that they want to keep it and that's fine. I'm among those who doesn't mind a good fight but only if both guys are willing. I also think hockey would still be hockey without fighting and don't see a problem with moving in the direction of no more fights.

A friend of mine scored 60 goals in a 15 game season as a kid. He never played at a higher level because his mom wouldn't let him - too violent a game. Makes me wonder how much talent could have been in the league that never got there because their parents didn't let them play. Incidents like this one are absolutely disgusting and something needs to happen to 100% eliminate this garbage from the game.

Agreed. And so does things like hitting from behind and taking somebody's knee out.

I enjoy a good fight too, and again when you have two willing combatants, or if you run my star player or goalie, then you should have to answer for that (whether you are given a penalty on the play or not).

The same goes for baseball - if you intentionally throw at my batter and hit him, or come close to his head, then you better be expecting your next batter is going to have a ball come whizzing by him.

Ari - Ana don't play again this year, but I would expect Beagle has someone coming for him next season, but he is a UFA.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

Wasn't the whole thing started by Zegras stupidly chopping the goalie in a 5-0 game with a few minutes left?
He doesn't do that and the whole thing never happens.

Didn't seem too bad a chop but that is true. Definitely shouldn't be doing that so the crosscheck is probably pretty much fair game.

 

[ACC1224]

Didn't seem too bad a chop but that is true. Definitely shouldn't be doing that so the crosscheck is probably pretty much fair game.

Yeah it wasn't that bad but unnecessary given the situation.
If someone did that to Campbell, I would expect a Leaf to act as Beagle did.

 

[ShaneFalco]

I'm among those who doesn't mind a good fight but only if both guys are willing

Same! I think the visor thing is a tad ridiculous when fighting but then again, I understand protecting players

 

[Ziggdiezan]

Yeah it wasn't that bad but unnecessary given the situation.
If someone did that to Campbell, I would expect a Leaf to act as Beagle did.

Ya agreed, I dont think most people have a huge issue with the cross check though.

 

[kb]

Wasn't the whole thing started by Zegras stupidly chopping the goalie in a 5-0 game with a few minutes left?
He doesn't do that and the whole thing never happens.

Cool. So non-fighter Terry (not even Zegras) gets knocked out for something Zegras does and it's OK.

 

[ACC1224]

Ya agreed, I dont think most people have a huge issue with the cross check though.

I thought a couple had an issue with it. I don’t know why they would but they tend to come to different conclusions than most of us.

So all this discussion is just about Beagle beating up Terry?

 

[Ziggdiezan]

I thought a couple had an issue with it. I don’t know why they would but they tend to come to different conclusions than most of us.

So all this discussion is just about Beagle beating up Terry?

Yes I believe the discussion centers around Beagle beating the crap out of Terry. Haven't seen much talk about the cross check

 

[ACC1224]

Yes I believe the discussion centers around Beagle beating the crap out of Terry. Haven't seen much talk about the cross check

Can’t imagine anyone defending Beagle there. I think he would even admit that he got caught up in the moment but crossed the line.

So what was all the fuss about targeting skilled players?

 

[Ziggdiezan]

Can’t imagine anyone defending Beagle there. I think he would even admit that he got caught up in the moment but crossed the line.

So what was all the fuss about targeting skilled players?

I think many saw Zegras do the Michigan and thought the beating happened soon after so assumed Beagle was trying to punish these skilled guys.

In reality the Michigan happened 10 minutes into the first period and this happened near the end of the 3rd. Beagle 1000% went over the line and should have let up on Terry far sooner. Was clear it was a 1 sided fight from the first punch. Not even sure Terry threw one.

I haven't been following this a ton so could be wrong though

 

[WestCoastLeafs]

She's played a lot of hockey, and is very knowledgeable about the game.

I think it's pretty funny that people are trying to use the "never played on the NHL" argument to invalidate her opinions, while nonetheless still giving their own opinions despite never having played in the NHL.

 

[Pierre Larouche]

Jennifer's opinion about hockey is like a Rolling Stone writer's opinion on music.

They just write and report about music.

Don't know music, how to write it, play it, read it, anything...

They just think they know it as if their opinion means something.

omg wtf are you on? what a crap analysis of everything.

 

[Pierre Larouche]

Hockey is also the only professional sport where you wear knives on your feet and are allowed to hit your opponent into the boards. Your response was contrived, pompous dogmatism and wanting.

FIGHTING IS PART OF THE GAME. If you want figure skating, why are you watching hockey?

it’s part of the NHL game. Wasn’t part of the game in rest of world. Hopefully it will end.