Post-Game Talk: Leafs win 6-3

[zeke]

Don Cherry could say what Gretzky said word for word and it would be on brand for him. The observation that fighting is being pushed out of the league is pretty obvious, whether that's a good thing or not is what's contentious.

The enforcer role was a blemish on the league because it trapped AHLers in a situation where they have to decide between concussions or starting a new life with no skills or education. I don't think suspending Iginla and Lecavalier automatically is a benefit to the league now that enforcers aren't really around anymore.

I think it's fairly clear that Wayne isn't lamenting the loss of fighting there even a little bit - if anything, he sounds a bit embarrassed by the fact that that's the first thing they ask him about hockey and is conveying the message that thats not really what the sport is about anymore.

Wish we heard more from skill players.

 

[Nylanderthal]

WTF are you talking about by definition experience is is just that experience, you don't need foresight or intelligence to have experience. 50 years ago they didn't need helmets because you played with respect,

People like you think change is always 100% of the time good, it's not. Off the top of my head I can think of two fairly recent changes the NHL did that they no longer enforce because change was bad. The more you take respect and personal accountability away from a sport, the more you need change, to fix what you broke when you made the change in the first place.

Okay, boomer

 

[Bluelines]

I think despite his political statement there he makes his views on that fairly clear here.

It was not a political statement and no, he states the obvious, not his own POV

 

[Martin Skoula]

I think it's fairly clear that Wayne isn't lamenting the loss of fighting there even a little bit - if anything, he sounds a bit embarrassed by the fact that that's the first thing they ask him about hockey and is conveying the message that thats not really what the sport is about anymore.

Wish we heard more from skill players.

Sure, I don't think anyone is pushing for the league to be focused on fighting primarily. That's a pretty big gap from not branding yourself as a fighting league to automatic suspensions for fighting. Skill and physicality aren't mutually exclusive, there's a reasonable middle ground thay doesn't exploit 4th liners.

 

[Bluelines]

Okay, boomer

LOL, weak sauce champ.... weak..

 

[Nylanderthal]

That ex goon Wayne says Hi...

TNT's NHL broadcast lineup: Schedule, play-by-play, analysts and hosts for 2021-22 season | Sporting News

TNT’s NHL lineup: Schedule, event and studio crews for 2021-22

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I don’t think he’s making the point you want him to be making

 

[zeke]

Oh so when you say the panels are full of ex goons and we never hear from skilled players on fighting, the link I gave you showed what you said was BS? Wrong on both fronts ah Zekey?

You are bringing up the fact that for the first time on forever they finally brought on an actual skill star to be a commentator?

Yes Wayne is a breath of fresh air. thank you TNT for understanding how silly the other hockey broadcasts have always been. And the crap we're still stuck with up here in Canada.

And yes, as I showed you with direct quotes, the conversation would be much different if more of the "experienced" voices we heard from were actually skilled star players, like the brand new hire Wayne Gretzky.

 

[ThrowDemTongs]

I'll fight any of you

 

[zeke]

Sure, I don't think anyone is pushing for the league to be focused on fighting primarily. That's a pretty big gap from not branding yourself as a fighting league to automatic suspensions for fighting. Skill and physicality aren't mutually exclusive, there's a reasonable middle ground thay doesn't exploit 4th liners.

Again I have no idea what bieksa and Jen were saying.

But the commentary on tape by Tyson Nash in that Terry-Beagle clip was an absolute embarasent - I love a good fight but the idea that someone deserves a beat down because they showed too much skill is insanely dumb.

 

[Nylanderthal]

Again I have no idea what bieksa and Jen were saying.

But the commentary on tape by Tyson Nash in that Terry-Beagle clip was an absolute embarasent - I love a good fight but the idea that someone deserves a beat down because they showed too much skill is insanely dumb.

Jen said todays fan is looking to watch high end skill not goonery and that the league should step in with some form of discipline and should do a better job protecting its stars and encourage skill. Predictably bieksa thought it was fine and players should police themselves and that there’s nothing for the league to step in on.. IE “da code”

 

[Martin Skoula]

Again I have no idea what bieksa and Jen were saying.

But the commentary on tape by Tyson Nash in that Terry-Beagle clip was an absolute embarasent - I love a good fight but the idea that someone deserves a beat down because they showed too much skill is insanely dumb.

No disagreement there, the one time a year someone gets beat down for that reason should be dealt with by DOPS appropriately.

 

[ToneDog]

Again I have no idea what bieksa and Jen were saying.

But the commentary on tape by Tyson Nash in that Terry-Beagle clip was an absolute embarasent - I love a good fight but the idea that someone deserves a beat down because they showed too much skill is insanely dumb.

Bieksa said the Zegras' (Michigan) goal had nothing to do with anything. The crosscheck by Beagle on Zegras was for taking a stab at the puck on the goalie. Terry came in to defend Zegras and Beagle beat him up. Pretty sure Bieksa thought Beagle should have let up given Terry was outmatched. The only issue I see is Beagle not letting up when it was clear Terry was outclassed, something we see with every fight Simmonds is involved it.

The refs letting it get to that were a joke given they immediately broke up an earlier fight between ex-Leafs Carcone and Carrick.

 

[zeke]

No disagreement there, the one time a year someone gets beat down for that reason should be dealt with by DOPS appropriately.

The idea that this is even the way many "experienced" nhlers think is the bigger problem.

Kids around the world are going gaga over the skills Terry and zegras display - and a large chunk of hockeydom actually think that its a problem that deserves punishment.

Completely ass backwards.

 

[Martin Skoula]

The idea that this is even the way many "experienced" nhlers think is the bigger problem.

Kids around the world are going gaga over the skills Terry and zegras display - and a large chunk of hockeydom actually think that its a problem that deserves punishment.

Completely ass backwards.

A large part of hockeydom thinks Zegras needs to be punished for scoring nice goals? Are you sure about that?

The reason that Cherry and Tortorella soundbites get so much airtime is because they stick out so much, if everyone agreed with them there would be no point talking about what they said because it would be a status quo opinion that didn't need repeating.

We're 70 games into the season and this is the first "problematic" fight I can really think of, it's really not the Boogeyman some of you are making it out to be. Toe picks have done more damage to players this season by an order of magnitude.

 

[Tak7]

50 years ago they didn't need helmets because you played with respect,

People like you think change is always 100% of the time good, it's not. Off the top of my head I can think of two fairly recent changes the NHL did that they no longer enforce because change was bad. The more you take respect and personal accountability away from a sport, the more you need change, to fix what you broke when you made the change in the first place.

50 years ago we didn't know what we know now about concussions, head trauma, brain injury, and chronic traumatic encephalopathy.

Sure, 100% of change isn't good. But let's be clear here - protecting people's brains from serious injury IS a very good change. I know you are smart enough to agree with that.

Also - the only reason the league has an issue with respect and personal accountability, is because the league, it's referees, and department of player safety aren't good enough at their jobs. If the people put in place to police the game, actually policed the game, there's be no need for this vigilante justice or a need for this BS "unwritten code" that exists, literally only, because teams feel they've been unjustly treated.

 

[Tak7]

A large part of hockeydom thinks Zegras needs to be punished for scoring nice goals? Are you sure about that?

I'm sure about it - it's a conversation every time a young player does anything with high skill.

"He should have had his head knocked off by a cross check"

"Back in the day, he'd be lying on the ice with his brain oozing out of his skull"

The entire Coyotes broadcast handling of the situation.

Torts comments earlier in the year.

The old man's club hates this crap. Dinosaurs who are clinging on to notions of a game that has long passed them.

There's a reason why hockey has seen such little growth - it's a game that doesn't promote or celebrate it's stars nearly enough. This is all in fitting with that.

 

[Nylanderthal]

The idea that this is even the way many "experienced" nhlers think is the bigger problem.

Kids around the world are going gaga over the skills Terry and zegras display - and a large chunk of hockeydom actually think that its a problem that deserves punishment.

Completely ass backwards.

This is the crux of the issue. This league always managed to nullify speed & skill in favour of grits & hits cuz it keeps the poverty franchises semi relevant as it’s cheaper and easier to build a goon squad that can keep it close with skilled teams because the rules ste either dated or not enforced

 

[zeke]

A large part of hockeydom thinks Zegras needs to be punished for scoring nice goals? Are you sure about that?

Do you really think Tyson Nash was a lone voice in the wilderness there?

 

[Martin Skoula]

I'm sure about it - it's a conversation every time a young player does anything with high skill.

"He should have had his head knocked off by a cross check"

"Back in the day, he'd be lying on the ice with his brain oozing out of his skull"

The entire Coyotes broadcast handling of the situation.

Torts comments earlier in the year.

The old man's club hates this crap. Dinosaurs who are clinging on to notions of a game that has long passed them.

There's a reason why hockey has seen such little growth - it's a game that doesn't promote or celebrate it's stars nearly enough. This is all in fitting with that.

Jack Edwards has said worse, I'm not going to pretend he's representative of the majority of hockeydom in any way. Edwards, torts, the coyotes guys need to be controversial to be relevant and it would be better if we got away from that meta.

Banning fighting does not change how those guys talk, they'll be looking for their next controversial soundbite about a big hit or a cross check without missing a beat.

Interference, hooking, slashing, crosschecks, and game management take the skill out of the game, fighting has next to no impact on the skill level. If the league wanted to highlight skill they'd be getting rid of guys like Chiarot and actually calling interference on teams like Carolina or even the Babcock era Leafs.

Banning fighting is just a low hanging fruit of a sacrificial lamb to pretend we did something and fixed the game when it isn't even 1% of the problems the game is facing right now. It's not going to fix the skill problem, it's not going to put a noticeable dent in the concussion problem, it's purely a marketing play to make people feel nice.

 

[ToneDog]

50 years ago we didn't know what we know now about concussions, head trauma, brain injury, and chronic traumatic encephalopathy.

Sure, 100% of change isn't good. But let's be clear here - protecting people's brains from serious injury IS a very good change. I know you are smart enough to agree with that.

Also - the only reason the league has an issue with respect and personal accountability, is because the league, it's referees, and department of player safety aren't good enough at their jobs. If the people put in place to police the game, actually policed the game, there's be no need for this vigilante justice or a need for this BS "unwritten code" that exists, literally only, because teams feel they've been unjustly treated.

The worst thing in hockey is to see a player wobbling to get to the bench and/or being carted off on a stretcher.

Bill Masterton, the only player to die from injuries suffered during an NHL game, might not have died in vain. The underlying cause of his death almost 50 years ago elevates awareness about the risks of undiagnosed concussions -- and the NHL's responsibility to address them.

 

[francis246]

I don’t think he was developed properly at all.

Flyers rushed him which is a big mistake for goalies because when that mental confidence goes, it can be really hard to develop.

He played 18 AHL games before being called to the show.

That may be apart of it, but I just also think he was really overhyped. He was a great goalie in juniors but even then he didn’t scream elite #1. He is still young, there’s time for him to grow.

 

[Tak7]

The worst thing in hockey is to see a player wobbling to get to the bench and/or being carted off on a stretcher.

Bill Masterton, the only player to die from injuries suffered during an NHL game, might not have died in vain. The underlying cause of his death almost 50 years ago elevates awareness about the risks of undiagnosed concussions -- and the NHL's responsibility to address them.

Exactly.

And now add the very tragic situations surrounding Wade Belak, Rick Rypien, Derek Boogaard, Steve Montador, and others - it's maddening to me that there's still resistance to the idea that head trauma / violence is awful.

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

Not sure I agree with the ‘ready to fight’ if the players are in different classes. If that was Marner instead of Terry I wouldn’t expect him to fight.
Not sure who was on the ice but ideally someone better suited grabs Beagle.

So I guess Marner should avoid scrums because there's always the chance that some Wilson type on the other team might start pounding on him. All part of the game, right?

I just mean that if you're going to jump in after a guy who is already fired up, you should be more ready to go than what Terry was.

And yes, we've seen what Wilson did to Panarin. If you're going to go at a guy like that, don't be surprised when he hits you.

 

[Bluelines]

50 years ago we didn't know what we know now about concussions, head trauma, brain injury, and chronic traumatic encephalopathy.

Sure, 100% of change isn't good. But let's be clear here - protecting people's brains from serious injury IS a very good change. I know you are smart enough to agree with that.

Also - the only reason the league has an issue with respect and personal accountability, is because the league, it's referees, and department of player safety aren't good enough at their jobs. If the people put in place to police the game, actually policed the game, there's be no need for this vigilante justice or a need for this BS "unwritten code" that exists, literally only, because teams feel they've been unjustly treated.

Yep I mostly agree, IMO brain trauma were not as prevalent when I played as they are now because it was a slower game by design. There was a lot more hooking and interference and you didn't have hard plastic armor from head to toe, if you hit a guy like they do today you might get injured. The NHL decided that its fans were mouth breathers that needed to see their players skate and hit a break neck speed, so they took away face punching and introduced a faster and because of the speed a more dangerous game. The game 40 years ago IMO was safer and more entertaining to watch.

 

[ACC1224]

I just mean that if you're going to jump in after a guy who is already fired up, you should be more ready to go than what Terry was.

And yes, we've seen what Wilson did to Panarin. If you're going to go at a guy like that, don't be surprised when he hits you.

Yeah I get the heat of the moment. Like I said earlier wasn’t sure who was on the ice but there must have someone else that could have joined.