Post-Game Talk: Leafs win 3-0 with a huge effort

[Evilhomer]

I actually agree with this. The same things have been said the last two years or more.

Last year it was Domi and Bertuzzi bringing everyone into the fight, look how different they are playing etc etc.

Hopefully things play out differently in the end, but playoff hockey is a different animal altogether. Time and space is limited, can the big boys handle it? I am confident Willy can, not sure about the other 3

I think people are overlooking maybe the most important factor: the Atlantic division, and maybe the eastern conference, is the worst it has been in years. I think this season represents the Leafs' best chance to reach the finals, and i think they will unless the rangers stand in their way.

 

[conFABulator]

This year hasn't really been different. If anything, it's just getting back to what we were doing prior to last year. We've had a coach who understands what it takes to win. We've had a legitimate top 4 defense core, and defensive results like this before. We've had solid goaltending before. We've had teams of this quality before, and even better. It's good to be excited. We didn't make the same stupid mistakes as last year, we have a good chance to win again, and hopefully this is the year it comes together. But some out there are trying really really hard to pretend things are a lot more different than they are, to force a narrative.

I have to disagree. It almost seems like you are trying really, really hard to suggest things are not different...almost to protect a narrative.

This team is winning without goals and a PP. That's a huge difference from previous years. We are winning with strong 5 on 5 defensive play, a strong PK, and we are not backing down from anyone. All of this with some key pieces out of the lineup. We are showing our depth and seems to be buying into a team game. We have two goalies going as well.

How is this not different?

 

[meefer]

Not to mention having some players come up from the Marlies who can capably fill in for the injured players. I know it's only been one game, but Grebenkin looks legit, and Minten isn't far behind!

I wold argue the other way around, but to your greater point, yes, they both looked well.

 

[DarkKnight]

I have to disagree. It almost seems like you are trying really, really hard to suggest things are not different...almost to protect a narrative.

This team is winning without goals and a PP. That's a huge difference from previous years. We are winning with strong 5 on 5 defensive play, a strong PK, and we are not backing down from anyone. All of this with some key pieces out of the lineup. We are showing our depth and seems to be buying into a team game. We have two goalies going as well.

How is this not different?

He believed Holl was part of our great top 4 defence, that's all you have to know about the validity of his comparisons. It's a joke.

 

[GoonieFace]

I think people are overlooking maybe the most important factor: the Atlantic division, and maybe the eastern conference, is the worst it has been in years. I think this season represents the Leafs' best chance to reach the finals, and i think they will unless the rangers stand in their way.

I’m not overlooking that, the East is weak in general.

I was just agreeing that the same things have been said about this team the past few years. We add grittier players, a few scrums happen and everyone gets excited that this year is different etc. Than playoffs come and they get smothered.

Hopefully this year is different….

 

[conFABulator]

He believed Holl was part of our great top 4 defence, that's all you have to know about the validity of his comparisons. It's a joke.

I don't know enough about the poster but he SEEMS like an example of someone who is very tied to previous regime and this clouds his perspective on current results and progress.

There are others that are so opposed to the previous group that can't allocate credit to those that were brought in and retained by them.

It's too bad, because posts from both groups start to lack objective credibility pretty quickly.

 

[Dekes For Days]

This team is winning without goals and a PP. That's a huge difference from previous years. We are winning with strong 5 on 5 defensive play, a strong PK, and we are not backing down from anyone. All of this with some key pieces out of the lineup. We are showing our depth and seems to be buying into a team game. We have two goalies going as well.
How is this not different?

We've struggled to score through stretches before, and won.
We've had our PP struggle through stretches before, and won.
We've had an abundance of injuries (including to key players) through stretches before, and won.
We've had strong defensive play before.
We've had a strong PK before.
We've stood up for each other and played a team game before.
We've had just as much depth before.
We've had good goaltending, and two goalies playing well before.
None of this is new.
The main thing that has changed is the perceptions of some, because they're not inserting irrational hatred into everything anymore.

 

[DarkKnight]

I don't know enough about the poster but he SEEMS like an example of someone who is very tied to previous regime and this clouds his perspective on current results and progress.

There are others that are so opposed to the previous group that can't allocate credit to those that were brought in and retained by them.

It's too bad, because posts from both groups start to lack objective credibility pretty quickly.

Your instincts are spot on. Everything is through the Dubas lens there.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Everything is through the Dubas lens there.

No, that would be you.

 

[DarkKnight]

No, that would be you.

I can't help you.

 

[ACC1224]

On a scale of one to ten how bad does it suck that there is no game tonight?

 

[conFABulator]

We've struggled to score through stretches before, and won.
We've had our PP struggle through stretches before, and won.
We've had an abundance of injuries (including to key players) through stretches before, and won.
We've had strong defensive play before.
We've had a strong PK before.
We've stood up for each other and played a team game before.
We've had just as much depth before.
We've had good goaltending, and two goalies playing well before.
None of this is new.
The main thing that has changed is the perceptions of some, because they're not inserting irrational hatred into everything anymore.

Yeah, you seem to have listed a bunch of things that may have happened over the past five years, I don't recall a stretch where they happened at the same time.

I agree with your last point. There is nothing irrational coming from me. I was a fan of Dubas and Keefe, I also understood and supported firing them both. I was skeptical of both new guys, but to me this feels quite different.

 

[Evilhomer]

I’m not overlooking that, the East is weak in general.

I was just agreeing that the same things have been said about this team the past few years. We add grittier players, a few scrums happen and everyone gets excited that this year is different etc. Than playoffs come and they get smothered.

Hopefully this year is different….

I think people vastly overblow the toughness, grittiness, etc. stuff. Every winning team has it, but it's not the reason why a team wins. The single biggest change in the Leafs this season is their structure. All you have to do is look at any defensive metric to appreciate how different this iteration of the team is winning compared to past seasons, regardless of whether the records are similar. Penalty killing is now one of the best in the league. Goaltending is likely the best in the league when you take into account the quality of both goalies. Comparing this team to prior Leafs' teams is lazy. They are not remotely the same.

Yeah, you seem to have listed a bunch of things that may have happened over the past five years, I don't recall a stretch where they happened at the same time.

I agree with your last point. There is nothing irrational coming from me. I was a fan of Dubas and Keefe, I also understood and supported firing them both. I was skeptical of both new guys, but to me this feels quite different.

I've never understood the irrational hatred of Dubas given that he built important pieces of this team. But I was never a fan of Keefe.

 

[bax]

On a scale of one to ten how bad does it suck that there is no game tonight?

11

 

[Nineteen67]

I can see that being the case in the first few years, but I would think that winning a few rounds would be their next goal to accomplish.

Their goal was to win, but they were so poorly built they had no chance.

 

[GoonieFace]

On a scale of one to ten how bad does it suck that there is no game tonight?

More than 10, even worse is they play Sunday night, as do the Eagles

 

[WillyC]

On a scale of one to ten how bad does it suck that there is no game tonight?

Eleven

 

[Dekes For Days]

Yeah, you seem to have listed a bunch of things that may have happened over the past five years, I don't recall a stretch where they happened at the same time.

It's happened at the same time quite a bit. For example, in 2022-2023 when Rielly went down (after losing Muzzin permanently, Brodie missing a bunch of games to injury, Matthews playing injured, etc.), we showed our depth, came together as a team, and despite a 17% PP, went 12-2-1 and put up top-5 defensive metrics, the 2nd best SV% in the league (with all 3 of the goalies we used being 0.920+), and an 83% PK. A lot of people seem to have really short memories. I believe that you just want to be genuinely positive about the team you have in front of you, but there are clearly different motivations for some.

 

[nuck]

I think people vastly overblow the toughness, grittiness, etc. stuff. Every winning team has it, but it's not the reason why a team wins. The single biggest change in the Leafs this season is their structure. All you have to do is look at any defensive metric to appreciate how different this iteration of the team is winning compared to past seasons, regardless of whether the records are similar. Penalty killing is now one of the best in the league. Goaltending is likely the best in the league when you take into account the quality of both goalies. Comparing this team to prior Leafs' teams is lazy. They are not remotely the same.


I've never understood the irrational hatred of Dubas given that he built important pieces of this team. But I was never a fan of Keefe.

Really? KDs decisions early in his tenure were what made the club the playoff failure it has been. The unnecessary JT signing and getting railed on contract negotiations colored every move he made since then because of the financial restrictions it put on the club. We don't know what he might have done if he had the the budget because he stubbornly stuck to that path so he also wears not correcting the initial mistakes. And hiring and keeping Keefe is on him when other teams rewarded repeated playoff failure with pink slips for coaches that weren't getting the results.

Almost all the important pieces were inherited and the good moves like Muzz and Brodie were too spread out so they were adding and aging out one player at a time. He buried the club in big contracts and exported draft capital that they are still paying next year. His legacy is one of failure. What's irrational to me is that people are still fighting over it now. He's gone.