Post-Game Talk: Leafs sweep California

[Zybalto]

It's not that I don't like your answers, I always appreciate honest opinions. I will say that IMO you're very wrong though.

So getting outscored 15-2 with the season on the line has a lot to do with luck. That's a piss poor excuse IMO so agree to disagree I guess.

A lot to do with goaltending - so what? Win and lose as a team, goaltending is a part of the team. What does it matter if the main reason for losing is goaltending, coaching, poor defensive play, forwards failing to convert chances or whatever else? And if you don't think the last point I mentioned has been a huge factor then I think you have a blind spot. 2 goals in 10 periods, that sucks and it especially sucks for a team that is supposedly stacked and led by generational offensive talent.

As far as being favourites or underdogs goes, we were only slight underdogs both times against Boston, roughly even against CLB and massive favourites against MTL. Overall I would expect to go pretty close to 2-2 in that scenario in the long run so no excuses there either.

You say you don't care about winning a round, you want to win the cup. Winning a round is a part of the journey though and that's where it has to start. And winning a round is also better than not winning one - look at all the people going on about "enjoying regular season success". I agree with them, all success should be enjoyed but my experience has been that playoff success is much more enjoyable then regular season success, even if it is just "winning a round". I love winning rounds, bring it on!

Oh, I can agree that poor finish has been part of the problem (despite getting far more chances than the opposition) but even that is usually balanced by getting some sort of solidish goaltending in playoff games. I think it all comes together this year though but who knows? We all want to win. The best thought experiment to fire at this is to play a game of "switch the goalies". You wanted 2-2? It's far more likely to be 3-1 or 4-0 Leafs if we did that....

How about we treat this season as it's own thing though and not bring up the past so often is what I'm hoping for going forward. The team is dominating right now and I think it's nice to celebrate wins and the whole reason I even had to go on the defensive (and why you and other people are getting sucked into this) is we have a few classless losers coming in here and wrecking literally every single post-game thread. The fact the team has been setting winning records and been the best team in hockey the last month has nothing to do with previous seasons right?

I mean you're cool and many of the more critical posters are fine but some around here....man. They dont even go away when they say they will either.

Anyways, more big games coming up against two of the best teams in the West. The Avs are finally getting more healthy (and already dominating again) and the Wild are really cruising as well. I didnt expect 6 points out of the West trip and Ill take two of 4 against those two teams.

 

[Fogelhund]

Yes, everyone is fully aware that this team hasn't had the playoff success hoped for, or expected. The team is playing well, and the hockey enjoyable. There isn't a need to crap on every thread, or panic every time there is a loss, or something negative happens. Hockey is a fun distraction, enjoyable sport to watch. If it isn't enjoyable, find something else to do. But to remind everyone regularly of past failures, it just suggests a miserable life.

 

[DutchHockeyGuy]

I was obviously quite disappointed when the Habs beat us. But that only lasted a few days. In the end enjoying positive things and forgetting the negatives is better for my life. That is not always easy, but I try.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I mean you're cool and many of the more critical posters are fine but some around here....man. They dont even go away when they say they will either.

Anyways, more big games coming up against two of the best teams in the West. The Avs are finally getting more healthy (and already dominating again) and the Wild are really cruising as well. I didnt expect 6 points out of the West trip and Ill take two of 4 against those two teams.

re. the bolded - LMAO

The posters at both extremes are annoying, both the ones who are always negative and the ones at the other extreme.

6 points in the last 3 didn't surprise me, not even a little bit, we're just so much better than those teams. Not taking anything for granted mind you but yeah, not surprised at all. These next 2 games are very interesting and TBH, I don't even care that much about the points. I mean I'm hoping for 4 points of course but if they play a quality 60 minutes, then win or lose, I will be happy.

Re. everything else, I get it - there are a lot of reasons for why we lost in the playoffs, my only point is that those reasons aren't quite enough to explain being outscored 15-2 in the most important 10 periods of hockey we've played over the last 4 years. I'm not one of those people saying we're doomed to fail again or that we have to fire Dubas or break up the core or whatever else, I'm just saying what has happened is so strange and until we play a lot closer to our potential when a PO series is down to one deciding game, that's hard to forget about. Hopefully this spring we're healthy and play the way we can and we can put all this to bed for good. Cheers!

Yes, everyone is fully aware that this team hasn't had the playoff success hoped for, or expected. The team is playing well, and the hockey enjoyable. There isn't a need to crap on every thread, or panic every time there is a loss, or something negative happens. Hockey is a fun distraction, enjoyable sport to watch. If it isn't enjoyable, find something else to do. But to remind everyone regularly of past failures, it just suggests a miserable life.

The counter point is that it's annoying to hear about how great we are when so many of us believe that you need to be great in the playoffs before you can call yourself a great team. But if you don't enjoy it when people bring it up then take your own advice and find something else to do, or put the people you don't want to hear from on ignore. TBH I find all the whining more annoying then anything else lately. People are complaining about people being too negative or too positive, why not just understand is that with millions of fans there will be different points of view and there will be people arguing here like always. That's just the way it is and there's nothing wrong with that. Time for the thought police to take a break IMO.

I was obviously quite disappointed when the Habs beat us. But that only lasted a few days. In the end enjoying positive things and forgetting the negatives is better for my life. That is not always easy, but I try.

Losing to the Habs was so gross but I also got over faster than I thought I would.

 

[ShaneFalco]

It's legitimately sad that some people are so consumed by the destination that they are unable to enjoy the journey. It's even sadder when they feel it necessary to inject negativity into the journey for everybody else.

What's sad is the people who ignore the actual results and try to paint a rosy picture and make constant excuses. That's a loser mentality. And feel it necessary to defend every move, every play, every player in every thread. This isn't one year of totally collapsing, and as mentioned before, it's also the way they lose. No fight, no heart, totally fragile. One of the best team's in the league ? - prove it when it matters. Or would you like to be like Sens fans when Spezza was there. Regular season champs, destroyed in the playoffs. What a legacy

Is the team talented? Absolutely! And that's why it's so frustrating. How we haven't won a playoff round is beyond me. Perhaps it's not the right balance of players. Regardless, I expect more especially in this window of opportunity that so far the team is totally blowing. I was a big Dubas supporter but the loss to the Habs, and the way they lost was it for me. I want a winner - no just winners on paper. And if it means moving on from Dubas or Marner or whoever, I'm down. I don't think this core has it and I think the GM is too weak. I don't think Keefe can make a difference in the playoffs either. I'd love to be proven wrong.

 

[kb]

Yes, everyone is fully aware that this team hasn't had the playoff success hoped for, or expected. The team is playing well, and the hockey enjoyable. There isn't a need to crap on every thread, or panic every time there is a loss, or something negative happens. Hockey is a fun distraction, enjoyable sport to watch. If it isn't enjoyable, find something else to do. But to remind everyone regularly of past failures, it just suggests a miserable life.

This.

Whatever happened to warnings and threadbans in any Leaf thread for not staying on topic? Go to any other board and try to derail their topic and you get the boot.

This sweep and the fact the players wanted to keep the same routine and practice speaks volumes about where their heads are at.

 

[zeke]

I easily ignore the hand full in the Pom Pom waiving group.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

When end playoff results are not what the fans want them to be, there is a tendency to only see the negatives, and we see that constantly in this very forum. Despite the reality being that we have an excellent team, set up well, with an excellent chance to win the cup, we see constant negativity and misery spouted by individuals who call themselves fans. Even in a post-game thread celebrating a franchise-record number of wins in a month.

While there are minor differences, the amount that the regular season and playoffs differ is massively exaggerated. This narrative tends to come from people refusing to acknowledge the actual reasons for regular season/playoff outcome discrepancies. Our team's play was just as dominant against Montreal in the playoffs as it was in the regular season, and that's while missing some pretty big pieces.

Oh, we'd certainly hear a lot if we got outplayed in a playoff series by a team missing significant pieces to injury, and our goalie carried us to a win.

Tampa loses Stamkos the entire playoffs. Pretty "unlucky". Wins a cup.

This is the precise problem with the leafs that we're talking about. They simply can't overcome adversity. It's like after Tavares went down they all went "phew... we have our excuse".

We know they're good in the regular season. They always are. But the stars will NEVER align in the playoffs. Ever. For any team. There's ALWAYS going to be a hot goaltender, or a key injury, or a bad matchup, or any combination of the three. GOOD teams overcome it. Bad teams resort to excuses.

A lot of posters called it this summer. This season is going to be rough no matter what. The regular season seems meaningless with this core. They've already proven they're good in the regular season, and it's what we expect. But we all know what's coming...

 

[kb]

I'm sure that handful can be easily ignored. I easily ignore the hand full in the Pom Pom waiving group.
The constant bickering back and forth is what hijacks threads.

Or, more accurately....the only group that's actually "Keeping It Real" in this cesspool of negativity and GM hate.

 

[Fogelhund]

The counter point is that it's annoying to hear about how great we are when so many of us believe that you need to be great in the playoffs before you can call yourself a great team. But if you don't enjoy it when people bring it up then take your own advice and find something else to do, or put the people you don't want to hear from on ignore. TBH I find all the whining more annoying then anything else lately. People are complaining about people being too negative or too positive, why not just understand is that with millions of fans there will be different points of view and there will be people arguing here like always. That's just the way it is and there's nothing wrong with that. Time for the thought police to take a break IMO.

That's fine, but these people are constantly derailing a bunch of threads. People need to start reporting these idiots, and the moderators need to deal with this. No need to derail a Post Game thread, with this BS.

 

[kb]

That's fine, but these people are constantly derailing a bunch of threads. People need to start reporting these idiots, and the moderators need to deal with this. No need to derail a Post Game thread, with this BS.

Damn like button.....where is it???

 

[LaPlante94]

To be clear, Columbus was not an awful team. They were actually 4th in the league in xGF%. They had the same number of points as us, and while they weren't very good offensively, they were the best defensive team in the league that year, even despite being with us at the top of the injury-impact list.

I'm going off what was said on this Leafs forum. Columbus wasn't a good team and we should dominate them was the common theme around here. It's funny how they were the best defensive team in the league when they had guys like Jones and Savard as their top guys who I've heard aren't very good on these same boards. Guess it just meant it was their system that Torts made them buy into since he knew they weren't that talented offensively. Another guy who I always read about being an old dinosaur and isn't a good coach so things don't really add up here. So either there's quite a few posters who follow the wrong people and give them bad stats or people just don't like to give certain types of players/coaches the credit they deserve. Also, a lot of these stats mean nothing when it's been way too easy to lock our team down because they play the game like it's the video game NHL and just skate around the outside and get way too cute instead of just trying to keep it simple at times and go for deflection play/screen shot and just try to jam it in when it's out front. Just simple hockey plays that every team does but ours just couldn't seem to figure it out. I do like seeing our team do this a bit more this year so that's one thing that makes me believe our team can actually have playoff success this year and the one thing I wanted to see from this team.

 

[zeke]

We know they're good in the regular season.

We do?

I think it's too late. The unprecedented dramatic overpayments ruined what was at one point a very very promising rebuild.

The problem is, right now, the Shanahan team aren't going to make decisions that are best for the leafs. They're going to make decisions to try and save their jobs.

I'm only half joking when I say this...

But I actually think there is a legitimate case to be made that Dubas intentionally sabotaged this team. It's gone that badly.

Know how most fans no longer believe in them?

Well, I think the same thing is happening to them. They don't believe they can succeed, even with 100% effort, so why bother trying so hard?

I'm not sure if "tanking" is the right word, but I don't think they care/believe enough in themselves to give proper effort.

The beginning of this season reminds me a lot of the beginning of the 2019/20 season where the team stopped playing for Babcock. Just like that year, something seems really really off. I don't think that bodes well for Keefe...

 

[Throw More Waffles]

We do?











View attachment 485677

Since Keefe took over, this team has proven to be very very good in the regular season. Haven't suggested otherwise other than that scare at the beginning of the season. But I don't think they're built well for the playoffs (as those posts above suggest) and that the unprecedented dramatic overpayments will make them a mediocre "still trying to win a playoff series" type of team as opposed to an elite team. Seems I've been pretty on point thus far...

 

[zeke]

Since Keefe took over, this team has proven to be very very good in the regular season. Haven't suggested otherwise other than that scare at the beginning of the season. But I don't think they're built well for the playoffs (as those posts above suggest) and that the unprecedented dramatic overpayments will make them a mediocre "still trying to win a playoff series" type of team as opposed to an elite team. Seems I've been pretty on point thus far...

I think you may have suggested otherwise.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

I think you may have suggested otherwise.

I don't think you noticed the words right after the bolded.

 

[Dekes For Days]

What's sad is the people who ignore the actual results

The only one ignoring actual results here is you, because all you've focused on is one specific result (past playoff series wins) that really doesn't even say much about obtaining that specific result going forward.

as mentioned before, it's also the way they lose. No fight, no heart, totally fragile.

Except that's a wildly, wildly inaccurate description of "the way they lose".

How we haven't won a playoff round is beyond me.

It wouldn't be beyond you if you actually cared to understand why, but all you've done is dismiss the reasons why as "excuses" while stating false narratives about the team.

 

[Dekes For Days]

They simply can't overcome adversity.

Except there's no actual evidence of that. Even if you deal with adversity well, that doesn't mean you're going to win every playoff series, regardless of how much and what type of adversity you face.

We know they're good in the regular season.

Seems like a whole lot of people forget every off-season and in-season cold stretch.

But the stars will NEVER align in the playoffs. Ever. For any team.

That's simply not true. Winning cups is quite literally always about stars aligning to some extent.

This season is going to be rough no matter what.

Doesn't have to be. That's your choice.

But we all know what's coming...

A lot of people seem to think they know what's coming, but they don't.

 

[ShaneFalco]

That's fine, but these people are constantly derailing a bunch of threads. People need to start reporting these idiots, and the moderators need to deal with this. No need to derail a Post Game thread, with this BS.

So report or stay tf out, or block just stop whining and calling people idiots who don't see the sky like you do.

 

[ShaneFalco]

The only one ignoring actual results here is you, because all you've focused on is one specific result (past playoff series wins) that really doesn't even say much about obtaining that specific result going forward.

Except that's a wildly, wildly inaccurate description of "the way they lose".

It wouldn't be beyond you if you actually cared to understand why, but all you've done is dismiss the reasons why as "excuses" while stating false narratives about the team.

Wow

 

[Gary Nylund]

That's fine, but these people are constantly derailing a bunch of threads. People need to start reporting these idiots, and the moderators need to deal with this. No need to derail a Post Game thread, with this BS.

Here's your answer.

So report or stay tf out, or block just stop whining and calling people idiots who don't see the sky like you do.

 

[kb]

Except there's no actual evidence of that. Even if you deal with adversity well, that doesn't mean you're going to win every playoff series, regardless of how much and what type of adversity you face.

Seems like a whole lot of people forget every off-season and in-season cold stretch.

That's simply not true. Winning cups is quite literally always about stars aligning to some extent.

Doesn't have to be. That's your choice.

A lot of people seem to think they know what's coming, but they don't.

Huh. Waffles cause brain damage apparently. And here I thought they were just fattening.

No more waffles for me.

 

[therealkoho]

Som folks here may want to ask Tampa fans how much they enjoyed their Presidents Trophy after getting knocked out in the 1st round after Columbus.

I will wait…..

I don’t know why we can’t enjoy what the Leafs are doing now without having reservations on who shows up for the playoffs. Don’t tell me how to follow my team. Don’t like it? Put me on Ignore but get off your self righteous soap box. I promise to do the same, without a 2nd thought.

November success will mean nothing if we get bounced again and anyone with the nerve to tell me how to be a fan can grab a straw and suck $/it right out of my you know what….

this kind of idea only matters if we get bounced and somebody say's "oh yeah, well what about that dominant November?"

I really don't know anyone that does that

What I do know is, that I love watching the Leafs win whenever, and I don't like watching them lose ever, not regular season and not playoffs!

 

[Gary Nylund]

There is no room for logic in sports.

Last year 3 game Edmonton series. Where we only allowed 1 goal in three games with three different goalies. You expect to win in Edmonton with the top end skill both teams have, but you expect much higher scoring games. Shutting down McDrai was special last year. Even the way we were hamulated that was still special. We still did good and even some great things. As that feels better then remembering that emotional loss to Montreal. No matter how bad it was and how we all wish it did not happen it did.

The Leafs this season could have folded, I wouldn't have blamed them. Instead we got this wonderful moment we have right now. Where we just made history in a dominant fashion. In a way I never thought this team could do it.

Instead of being in the now and enjoying it. We have half the fan base still emotionally attached to getting destroyed by Montreal and the other half trying to tell them how they can feel and think as fans. Can't we all just agree to cheer for this team however we want to and if you don't like what others say we have an ignore button for a reason. We are responsible for our own happiness in life, whatever form that takes.

Go LEafs Go

this kind of idea only matters if we get bounced and somebody say's "oh yeah, well what about that dominant November?"

I really don't know anyone that does that

What I do know is, that I love watching the Leafs win whenever, and I don't like watching them lose ever, not regular season and not playoffs!

I would have said the same a few days ago before I saw the post above yours.

 

[therealkoho]

What you call "perspective " I call "has no bearing on current or future results".

I mean, I'm all ears while you explain the relevance of stuff from back when most the players were in elementary school or even before they were born.

I don't know this for a fact, but "when you keep getting bounced in the first round, it means you'll always get bounced in the first round and it doesn't matter if the team is comprised of different players or not! I just know it's true!