Confirmed with Link: Leafs don't sign D Jani Hakanpaa to a 2 years, $1.5M AAV

[Dekes For Days]

You made irrelevant status distinctions between Stone and Hakanpaa. One is a star guy, the other isn’t. One makes a lot of money. They other doesn’t

You attempted to justify your suggestion by pointing to something nothing like it. The differences are not irrelevant at all. You managed to pick out the player differences that describe differences in potential benefit, but somehow missed all of the fundamental differences in the actual situations that I outlined. Mark Stone wasn't signed to go on LTIR. Mark Stone wasn't a new player on his team, unfamiliar with the systems, coach, players, etc. Mark Stone didn't sit out a season on LTIR. Mark Stone didn't sit out 14 months with a career threatening injury and then jump straight into the playoffs. Etc.

Anyone suggesting that this is what the Leafs are doing is being a bit silly. There is no chance the Leafs want to dig into LTIR. Completely the opposite. They signed this guy to play him. If he can't play, whatever, but they most certainly didn't sign him to sit on LTIR for 8 months.

I agree completely. There is no way that that is what the Leafs are doing. I'm not sure how anybody could think that it's a beneficial strategy.

 

[Evilhomer]

I don’t see any downside in signing him and stashing him on LTIR. We don’t know what the Leafs motivations are here when Hakanpaa is making way less than a healthy Lyubushkin. In any case it doesn’t seem like a big deal.

Using LTIR eats into the team's ability to accrue cap space during the season, which has been a significant issue the past two seasons.

 

[Stephen]

Using LTIR eats into the team's ability to accrue cap space during the season, which has been a significant issue the past two seasons.

Accruing cap space would be a means to an end to acquire a player later in the season… like Hakanpaa.

 

[ULF_55]

You attempted to justify your suggestion by pointing to something nothing like it. The differences are not irrelevant at all. You managed to pick out the player differences that describe differences in potential benefit, but somehow missed all of the fundamental differences in the actual situations that I outlined. Mark Stone wasn't signed to go on LTIR. Mark Stone wasn't a new player on his team, unfamiliar with the systems, coach, players, etc. Mark Stone didn't sit out a season on LTIR. Mark Stone didn't sit out 14 months with a career threatening injury and then jump straight into the playoffs. Etc.

Have to agree there is nothing going on here.

It's just coincidental that one team has placed a player on LTIR before TDD and the recovery time was exactly the duration of the regular season remaining.

Golden Knights GM McCrimmon defends use of LTIR space at deadline

As general manager Kelly McCrimmon explained to Sportsnet's Jeff Marek, the Golden Knights aren't doing anything outside of what the CBA allows them to do especially with their players dealing with long-term injuries.

www.sportsnet.ca

Vegas currently has three players placed on LTIR including Mark Stone ($9.5 million), Robin Lehner ($5 million) and William Carrier ($1.4 million), which opened up $15.9 million in additional cap space for the Golden Knights to make their additions at the deadline.

However, as general manager Kelly McCrimmon explained to Sportsnet's Jeff Marek on the Jeff Marek Show on Monday, the Golden Knights aren't doing anything outside of what the CBA allows them to do, especially with their players dealing with long-term injuries like Stone.

I think making an example of Hakanpaa would benefit everyone, as it might be the impetus to Cap Compliance from Season opener to Cup completion.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Have to agree there is nothing going on here.
It's just coincidental that one team has placed a player on LTIR before TDD and the recovery time was exactly the duration of the regular season remaining.

Golden Knights GM McCrimmon defends use of LTIR space at deadline

As general manager Kelly McCrimmon explained to Sportsnet's Jeff Marek, the Golden Knights aren't doing anything outside of what the CBA allows them to do especially with their players dealing with long-term injuries.

www.sportsnet.ca

I think making an example of Hakanpaa would benefit everyone, as it might be the impetus to Cap Compliance from Season opener to Cup completion.

The Stone shenanigans were shady. Just not similar to the suggestion being made.
If the league was going to go after anything, it would be the Stone stuff, because that actually provides an advantage.

 

[ULF_55]

The Stone shenanigans were shady. Just not similar to the suggestion being made.
If the league was going to go after anything, it would be the Stone stuff, because that actually provides an advantage.

Yep.

It would not be a stretch to suggest they didn't put him on the active list because they had no Cap Space, not because he wasn't healthy.

 

[Gilmour1996]

The Stone shenanigans were shady. Just not similar to the suggestion being made.
If the league was going to go after anything, it would be the Stone stuff, because that actually provides an advantage.

League doesn't want to rock the Vegas USA boat.

 

[Stephen]

The NHL hard cap system has provisions in it that provides relief for major injuries, and a big loophole where the cap mysteriously disappears come playoff time. Pair those things together and you might have an advantage.

Why they structured the cap in such a way that it only pertains to the regular season is a mystery to me, but if it's been ratified by the NHL and NHLPA you'd have to think it was designed, negotiated, understood etc. by sophisticated parties.

So if Vegas is creatively pairing these cap mechanisms and bending injury timelines for success, who cares? And if Toronto weighs its options and thinks there's a benefit to holding onto a Hakanpaa? Who cares? These mechanisms are legal and available to 32 teams provided they have an injured player and the cash to pay out beyond the hard cap. The NHL isn't that serious. It's one step away from the WWE.

If the NHL doesn't like "shenanigans" build a compliance buyout into the system, create a soft cap, pad in some exemptions for entry level deals or contracts over 35 or hand out some franchise tags. At the end of the day a league shouldn't be so focused on being punitive against its own franchises because you're punishing a paying audience.

 

[Racer88]

The NHL hard cap system has provisions in it that provides relief for major injuries, and a big loophole where the cap mysteriously disappears come playoff time. Pair those things together and you might have an advantage.

Why they structured the cap in such a way that it only pertains to the regular season is a mystery to me, but if it's been ratified by the NHL and NHLPA you'd have to think it was designed, negotiated, understood etc. by sophisticated parties.

So if Vegas is creatively pairing these cap mechanisms and bending injury timelines for success, who cares? And if Toronto weighs its options and thinks there's a benefit to holding onto a Hakanpaa? Who cares? These mechanisms are legal and available to 32 teams provided they have an injured player and the cash to pay out beyond the hard cap. The NHL isn't that serious. It's one step away from the WWE.

If the NHL doesn't like "shenanigans" build a compliance buyout into the system, create a soft cap, pad in some exemptions for entry level deals or contracts over 35 or hand out some franchise tags. At the end of the day a league shouldn't be so focused on being punitive against its own franchises because you're punishing a paying audience.

They need Shannyanigans and he would still mess it up

 

[Dekes For Days]

So if Vegas is creatively pairing these cap mechanisms and bending injury timelines for success, who cares?

The other teams who are watching Vegas cheat the rules of the league to gain a significant advantage towards that success over them.

And if Toronto weighs its options and thinks there's a benefit to holding onto a Hakanpaa? Who cares?

I don't think the league cares about Hakanpaa. For your suggestion, the people who would care are the Toronto fans watching their team handcuff themselves for the season and then try to throw a depth player who has never played for them onto the playoff roster after career-threatening injury and 14 months of not playing.

The NHL isn't that serious. It's one step away from the WWE.

That's kind of the problem. It would be nice if the top hockey league wasn't run like a joke.

If the NHL doesn't like "shenanigans" build a compliance buyout into the system, create a soft cap, pad in some exemptions for entry level deals or contracts over 35 or hand out some franchise tags.

Those don't fix the issue, and what the NHL wants more than anything is to not pay more money. All of those suggestions just require the owners to pay more money.

 

[crump]

What do Ron Francis, Brian Leetch, Calle Johansson, Phil Housley, Glen Wesley, Doug Gilmour have in common?

 

[ULF_55]

Those don't fix the issue, and what the NHL wants more than anything is to not pay more money. All of those suggestions just require the owners to pay more money.

Not exactly.

I doesn't require them to pay any more.

It gives them an opportunity to pay more / retain players.

It is up to the individual to live/pay within their budget, no government bail-outs, although governments do end up paying for arena's.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Not exactly.
I doesn't require them to pay any more.
It gives them an opportunity to pay more / retain players.

It requires them to pay more to keep up. The league wants to collectively keep player expenses as low as possible, and these would all raise it.
They were willing to lose an entire season to get player expense certainty. They're not going to abandon it.
It wouldn't fix any of the issues the league is having anyway. It would just make cheating legal and more expensive for less relative benefit.

 

[ULF_55]

It requires them to pay more to keep up. The league wants to collectively keep player expenses as low as possible, and these would all raise it.
They were willing to lose an entire season to get player expense certainty. They're not going to abandon it.
It wouldn't fix any of the issues the league is having anyway. It would just make cheating legal and more expensive for less relative benefit.

We're talking the fans money, not the team's money here.

Some teams are near the floor. This doesn't support your position.

Teams chose to pay more, based on the HRR there is so much money generated, and some teams are paying welfare payments to other teams who are near the floor.

Let the fans paying welfare payments to the have not's get some benefit for their payments.

 

[Dekes For Days]

We're talking the fans money, not the team's money here.
Some teams are near the floor. This doesn't support your position.

We're talking the team's money. They pay the player expenses. The NHL was willing to lose a whole season with the biggest lockout in North American professional sports history because they needed cost certainty for players, but all of the suggestions are just ways to pay more money to players outside of the cap, and would increase overall player expenditure for the league. They're not going to abandon what they fought so hard for, especially when it doesn't actually fix anything, and just creates more problems.

For the record, there will be 3 teams below the cap midpoint (+1m/+4m/+9m above floor, all hard rebuilding), and 29 teams above the cap midpoint. One of those 3 below teams may even end up above after bonuses are applied at the end of the year. That does support my position.

 

[ULF_55]

We're talking the team's money. They pay the player expenses. The NHL was willing to lose a whole season with the biggest lockout in North American professional sports history because they needed cost certainty for players, but all of the suggestions are just ways to pay more money to players outside of the cap, and would increase overall player expenditure for the league. They're not going to abandon what they fought so hard for, especially when it doesn't actually fix anything, and just creates more problems.

For the record, there will be 3 teams below the cap midpoint (+1m/+4m/+9m above floor, all hard rebuilding), and 29 teams above the cap midpoint. One of those 3 below teams may even end up above after bonuses are applied at the end of the year. That does support my position.

The money doesn't come from the teams. Teams don't even watch, fans do.
It is the fan's money.
Fans money pay the players, teams are the middlemen.

How many teams are the the ceiling?
The rest aren't correct?

 

[Dekes For Days]

The money doesn't come from the teams. Teams don't even watch, fans do.
It is the fan's money.
Fans money pay the players, teams are the middlemen.

The money does come from the teams.
Fans pay for a ticket to an entertainment product. That is part of a team's revenue.
The teams pay the player expenses. That is part of a team's expenses.
The league has been fighting really really hard for decades to minimize and create certainty in their player-based expenses. They will not abandon that.

How many teams are the the ceiling?

The majority of the league is going to be near the cap ceiling, just like every other year. Especially if they want to compete.
In competitive sports, the most advantageous option becomes the standard.

 

[ULF_55]

The majority of the league is going to be near the cap ceiling, just like every other year. Especially if they want to compete.
In competitive sports, the most advantageous option becomes the standard.

 

[Dekes For Days]

View attachment 900749

Yes. We already have half the league (and almost all competitive teams) within a couple million, and then we still need to add in the many still unsigned RFAs.

 

[ULF_55]

Fans pay for a ticket to an entertainment product. That is part of a team's revenue.
The teams pay the player expenses. That is part of a team's expenses.
The league has been fighting really really hard for decades to minimize and create certainty in their player-based expenses. They will not abandon that.

The majority of the league is going to be near the cap ceiling, just like every other year. Especially if they want to compete.
In competitive sports, the most advantageous option becomes the standard.

Fans pay for tickets and most HRR.
Fans pay cable subscriptions.
Fans watch so advertisers pay for air time.

Where do you think the money comes from?

 

[Dekes For Days]

Fans pay for tickets and most HRR.
Fans pay cable subscriptions.
Fans watch so advertisers pay for air time.
Where do you think the money comes from?

Fans pay for their service/product and get their service/product. It is a transaction for a business. The teams deal with expenses, and write the cheques. The teams want player expenses to be smaller and capped at a certain percentage, and have fought hard for decades to ensure it. The rest is irrelevant.

 

[ULF_55]

Fans pay for their service/product and get their service/product. It is a transaction for a business. The teams deal with expenses, and write the cheques. The teams want player expenses to be smaller and capped at a certain percentage, and have fought hard for decades to ensure it. The rest is irrelevant.

Fans are definitely the most relevant.

 

[Maple Leaf]

Is this a leaf because he is wearing a stars jersey around town

 

[SprDaVE]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1823749456602522022

https://x.com/i/web/status/1823754786837291212

 

[Menzinger]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1823749456602522022

https://x.com/i/web/status/1823754786837291212

Interesting. Was beginning to think the deal was DOA, but seems like it may just be a matter of time now