Post-Game Talk: Leafs lose to MONTREAL. This team is no gangsta. Lyubushkin is needed, hard.

[ShaneFalco]

Leafs have to have at least one monumentally embarrassing failure per year

 

[ULF_55]

I have to applaud the restraint shown on the title of this thread.

 

[fahad203]

Leafs have to have at least one monumentally embarrassing failure per year

It has become a Keefe special

 

[Gary Nylund]

Remember when we were going to miss the playoffs and the core needed to be blown up based on a bad weekend in October?
This is totally different, and we should 100% make complete judgments based on 116 point pace team losing focus over a weekend in February.

Sounds like you're saying there is no need for concern, I wish I could agree.

I was never worried about making the playoffs myself, I was never saying blow up the core and I'm not saying that now. Moving one core piece might not be a bad idea, but I've been saying that for a while now.

We have been playing poorly for a while now so it's not just one weekend in February.

There were legit concerns about our D, many felt we needed to add a top 4 Dman before the playoffs. Now it looks like we might have to get by without Muzzin and if that's the case and we need two more top 4 Dman, we may as well start preparing for next season today.

Our goaltending has also been a concern for longer than just one weekend in February.

Our special teams are good so that's something I guess.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Leafs have to have at least one monumentally embarrassing failure per year

Yeah, it's called game 7.

 

[ULF_55]

Sounds like you're saying there is no need for concern, I wish I could agree.

I was never worried about making the playoffs myself, I was never saying blow up the core and I'm not saying that now. Moving one core piece might not be a bad idea, but I've been saying that for a while now.

We have been playing poorly for a while now so it's not just one weekend in February.

There were legit concerns about our D, many felt we needed to add a top 4 Dman before the playoffs. Now it looks like we might have to get by without Muzzin and if that's the case and we need two more top 4 Dman, we may as well start preparing for next season today.

Our goaltending has also been a concern for longer than just one weekend in February.

Our special teams are good so that's something I guess.

Considering he just came off a concussion (unless I'm out to lunch on this ... old brain) a 2nd. concussion so soon could be an indicator he should be shutdown for a while.

LTIR until the playoffs maybe?

So that would give them 5.6mm capspace for a rental. That's a completely different area code than Lyubushkin.

 

[ACC1224]

Considering he just came off a concussion (unless I'm out to lunch on this ... old brain) a 2nd. concussion so soon could be an indicator he should be shutdown for a while.

LTIR until the playoffs maybe?

So that would give them 5.6mm capspace for a rental. That's a completely different area code than Lyubushkin.

Hate to think it but it could be a blessing in disguise.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Considering he just came off a concussion (unless I'm out to lunch on this ... old brain) a 2nd. concussion so soon could be an indicator he should be shutdown for a while.

LTIR until the playoffs maybe?

So that would give them 5.6mm capspace for a rental. That's a completely different area code than Lyubushkin.

Cap space is great but this time of the year you can't go signing UFA's so we're talking about giving about a considerable amount of assets (futures I assume) to replace Muzzin. And I don't think we can count on Muzzin being a top 4 guy for us in the playoffs either at this point so even then, we're still short a top 4 Dman.

 

[4thline]

Sounds like you're saying there is no need for concern, I wish I could agree.

No I'm saying that hyperbole, negativity, and confirmation bias run rampant on these boards after any stretch of bad play.

IMO the "real" team is the one that is around the most often, the most consistent result. Too many it seems like the the "real" team is the one that appears for small amounts and is uninspired, lays the odd egg.

No doubt many people pointed to the Blues as evidence of all the short-comings of our team, "a real contender" that doesn't let up. Just have to casually ignore losses to the Devils and Habs in their last 3 before Saturday.

 

[mydnyte]

i couldnt even watch after the 1st... Holl was playing like either he knows he's going to be traded, or he wants to be traded.

I thought this year was going the be the year when cross-checks (especially from behind) were called consistently, yet, on the 1st goal, Anderson blatantly crosschecks Brodie out of the play, and then gets his goal, since, Brodie wasnt there any more to defend. That single play, and non-call changes the game.

Montreal plays us like they are thugs beating a rug (to keep it clean) and get away with it

 

[ShaneFalco]

 

[ShaneFalco]

Too many it seems like the the "real" team is the one that appears for small amounts and is uninspired, lays the odd egg.

You mean during the playoffs the last 5 years?

 

[Gary Nylund]

No I'm saying that hyperbole, negativity, and confirmation bias run rampant on these boards after any stretch of good or bad play.

IMO the "real" team is the one that is around the most often, the most consistent result. Too many it seems like the the "real" team is the one that appears for small amounts and is uninspired, lays the odd egg.

No doubt many people pointed to the Blues as evidence of all the short-comings of our team, "a real contender" that doesn't let up. Just have to casually ignore losses to the Devils and Habs in their last 3 before Saturday.

FYP

I don't know or care about the Blues but as I said earlier, we have been playing poor D for some time now. For a while we were able to outscore our mistakes and win anyway but not so lately so again, it's not just one bad weekend, the sample size is a bit bigger than that. Muzzin out is really bad news, so many people were pointing to his injury as the final nail in our coffin last spring so that's very real as well.

Still lots of time before the playoffs start but this team isn't looking good these days and that's putting it mildly.

 

[ACC1224]

i couldnt even watch after the 1st... Holl was playing like either he knows he's going to be traded, or he wants to be traded.

I thought this year was going the be the year when cross-checks (especially from behind) were called consistently, yet, on the 1st goal, Anderson blatantly crosschecks Brodie out of the play, and then gets his goal, since, Brodie wasnt there any more to defend. That single play, and non-call changes the game.

Montreal plays us like they are thugs beating a rug (to keep it clean) and get away with it

Good play by Anderson to make space for himself and hardly as dramatic as you make it sound.

 

[Gary Nylund]

You mean during the playoffs the last 5 years?

I'm sad to say that's a valid point. Of course there are a few posters here that will tell you that our playoff losses "lack context" and the "small sample size" makes them irrelevant so ...

 

[thusk]

Leafs have to have at least one monumentally embarrassing failure per year

Like every team...

Do you think colorado was happy with their game yesterday of 1st game against toronto? But they still #1

Or florida when they lost 8-2 to ottawa or 7-3 to nj

Tampa 9-3 against florida or 5-1 against anaheim...

Embarassing game happening to every NHL team

 

[ULF_55]

Cap space is great but this time of the year you can't go signing UFA's so we're talking about giving about a considerable amount of assets (futures I assume) to replace Muzzin. And I don't think we can count on Muzzin being a top 4 guy for us in the playoffs either at this point so even then, we're still short a top 4 Dman.

The option is:

Rielly - Brodie
Sandin - Holl
Dermott - Lyubuskin
Liljegren

And to be honest that might be the better approach than trading a 1st. round pick for a rental and be left with the same core that hasn't proven they can handle big games.

 

[4thline]

FYP

I don't know or care about the Blues but as I said earlier, we have been playing poor D for some time now. For a while we were able to outscore our mistakes and win anyway but not so lately so again, it's not just one bad weekend, the sample size is a bit bigger than that. Muzzin out is really bad news, so many people were pointing to his injury as the final nail in our coffin last spring so that's very real as well.

Still lots of time before the playoffs start but this team isn't looking good these days and that's putting it mildly.

That fix kind of misses the point. We're on pace for like 116 points. The good outweighs the bad. The Leafs are a very good but not perfect hockey team. Full stop. They won't go anywhere in the playoffs if they're not playing to their best. Full stop. If they play their best, they can play with, and beat, anybody.

 

[Metroid]

Like every team...

Do you think colorado was happy with their game yesterday of 1st game against toronto? But they still #1

Or florida when they lost 8-2 to ottawa or 7-3 to nj

Tampa 9-3 against florida or 5-1 against anaheim...

Embarassing game happening to every NHL team

unfortunately everything is magnified in leaf land, highs and lows are higher and lower more than ever. also it's funny that when we are winning and playing well it's all "well playoffs blah blah" regular season doesn't count .. but when they play like dogshit, it's like, I knew it, this team sucks fold the team, trade everyone etc etc.....

it was a shit game, but like.... does regular season matter or no? too many goal post moving going around. Im still enjoying the ride into the playoffs.

 

[ShaneFalco]

it was a shit game, but like.... does regular season matter or no? too many goal post moving going around. Im still enjoying the ride into the playoffs.

Ultimately if they win a round or 2 this game won't be remembered at all. But it's the same disturbing trends leading up to the playoffs and the same lack of push-back - Spezza is one of the few with balls on this team

 

[Gary Nylund]

The option is:

Rielly - Brodie
Sandin - Holl
Dermott - Lyubuskin
Liljegren

And to be honest that might be the better approach than trading a 1st. round pick for a rental and be left with the same core that hasn't proven they can handle big games.

I agree completely. Trading for a rental in a desperate attempt to save our season would be madness. I'd be more than willing to make a big trade that gets us a Dman that would help us for years to come, that's another story but Muzzin's injury makes that kind of move a lot less urgent for me.

That fix kind of misses the point. We're on pace for like 116 points. The good outweighs the bad. The Leafs are a very good but not perfect hockey team. Full stop. They won't go anywhere in the playoffs if they're not playing to their best. Full stop. If they play their best, they can play with, and beat, anybody.

If we play our best, there are still a number of teams (more than one of them in our division) that beat us if they also play their best. And if we are without Muzzin, our best just went down a notch or two.

We're still a good team, no argument from me there. Especially if you add the words "regular season" before team.

 

[ShaneFalco]

I agree completely. Trading for a rental in a desperate attempt to save our season would be madness. I'd be more than willing to make a big trade that gets us a Dman that would help us for years to come, that's another story but Muzzin's injury makes that kind of move a lot less urgent for me.



If we play our best, there are still a number of teams (more than one of them in our division) that beat us if they also play their best. And if we are without Muzzin, our best just went down a notch or two.

We're still a good team, no argument from me there. Especially if you add the words "regular season" before team.

Full stop

 

[2 Slick]

Like every team...

Do you think colorado was happy with their game yesterday of 1st game against toronto? But they still #1

Or florida when they lost 8-2 to ottawa or 7-3 to nj

Tampa 9-3 against florida or 5-1 against anaheim...

Embarassing game happening to every NHL team

Campbell's save percentage since December 1st has been around .890%. Mrazek's save percentage on the season is .890%. The Leafs can't score five plus goals every game to make up for their suspect goaltending and even worse defense.

They won a lot of games in January on the backs of Marner and Matthews and special teams. You can't give up 4-5 goals every game in the playoffs and expect to score 5 or more to win every game.

People worried should be worried. This team will be feasted on by Florida, Tampa Bay or Boston in the first round. With this defense and goaltending, they will be slaughtered. You don't have to be a skeptic to see that, but a realist.

 

[kevsh]

So in year 6 of the Matthews/Marner, trade deadline quickly approaching and this team still does not have a solid blueline that anyone believes can carry them deep into the playoffs.

In hindsight, bringing in four forwards over the summer, incl. $2M on the Ritchie gamble while not addressing the blueline was a mistake. Except hindsight isn't needed, it was obvious the defence still wasn't good enough well before the Montreal series, that loss just proved it. To everyone except Dubas apparently.

Good on Dubas for bring Lyubushkin in as a start but the assets required to make the move he really needs aren't there anymore, unless he wants to completely mortgage the future, so outside of making a splash (Chiarot, e.g.) and officially killing any notion of building a dynasty (or just a very strong playoff team) that will compete for years to a "one and done" shot at the Cup, this team is going to roll into the playoffs again with a blueline that should make every fan very nervous, and Dubas just asking to be fired this Summer.

 

[4thline]

If we play our best, there are still a number of teams (more than one of them in our division) that beat us if they also play their best. And if we are without Muzzin, our best just went down a notch or two.

I disagree. Peak on peak I think we can go toe to toe with anyone in the league right now. Standings bear that out, games against them bear that out, and IMO and objective comparison of rosters without falling into grass is greener traps bears that out. The question is whether or not we can deliver peak when the time comes, and what we do to massage that peak up a little.

Potentially losing Muzzin is really the only recent development that is concerning to me. The rest of the recent blips (goaltending, D, 2nd line) are likely noise.