Post-Game Talk: Leafs lose in the Marathon

[therealkoho]

Really isn’t my problem that you have a man/woman crush on a sh*t hockey player.

Dermott had the same defenders up until the day he was traded. Like Dermott, Holl doesn’t do anything at a high level. With how deep this defense is, he doesn’t deserve a spot in the lineup over Lyubushkin or Liljegren. I honestly prefer Dermott because he could at least skate well. Both panic with the puck on their sticks and don’t make up for it defensively.

Not a crush, I just don't get the hot takes based on a ridiculous narrative that is long past its due date. The numbers tell a story that the narrative is full of horse puckey, my eye test tells me that the narrative is also full of baloney.

There is not a defender in the league who isn't effected by what his partner does. There isn't a defender in the league that doesn't affect his partner with the plays he makes.

Bottom line is Holls numbers are good when he hasn't been paired with Muzzin who's numbers are below average no matter who he's paired with.

There has never ever been a player that gets through a complete game without making an error. Even whoever it is that you might be touting at the moment.

Muzzin is done, time to stick a fork in him.

 

[Auston Marlander]

pros dont get pissed?

Who says they don't get pissed? I was agreeing with you that this isn't the end of the world and showing they are emotionally crushed like the poster you quoted was saying.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

I disagree. He’s been just ok with those two.

My only point is similar to Dermott. He should not be playing over Muzzin, Liljegren, or Lyubushkin at this point. And I say he’s behind Sandin when he’s healthy. Realistically he’s number 8 on this team. On other teams he’d make a decent bottom pairing D.

Once his contract runs out he will be back in AHL or out of hockey altogether ... guy can't skate at NHL level .. also his hands/brain are not NHL level either .. Dubie tried to trade him and found out real quick he had overpaid on AAV when league told him they needed a pick back from Leafs for da extra 1M of AAV next year

 

[Mr_Fun]

Muzzin has been declining rapidly for the past few years. This year it seems it's Brodie

I hope I'm wrong but I get the feeling that last concussion may have taken his drive away. I suppose the next couple of games will tell the story a bit more. When a player comes out and says he needs to reevaluate his life - like Muzzin did - it generally means it's time to hang up the skates.

 

[Mr_Fun]

He's been sinking since mid season of 20/21, his foot speed just isn't where it has to be and because of that the game has become all that much faster for him, and as such he has to make much quicker decisions. When he's rushed it forces errors, it means less accuracy on his passes because he has less time to make them. When his passes are off target it forces the other D into making mistakes as well.

Muzzin looks like the oldest guy out there....and that's including a 38 year old player

 

[scotian1]

How did Tavares not score on his chance in OT? I need to see another angle on that.

Note the hook on the arm.

 

[BigGulpsEh]

Nice goal by muzzin but he looks cooked overall.

He has been awful all year and I can't see him turning it around. Holl-muzzin pairing should never be a thing ever again. Keefe needs to wake up and end it for good

 

[Sniper99]

Lmaooooo it’s 3 games in 4 nights, with a back up goalie who’s an AHL starter. The guys were absolutely gassed

yes, yes, the guys were gassed, but you gotta find away to fight through it. Yes if it was 1-2 goal lead, I can live with that. Not 5-1.

 

[Gallagbi]

Really weird game. Had control and pissed it away, also didn't bury some pretty easy chances with the goalie down and out. Mik and Brodie could have iced this one, even Marner missed an open net in the first.

Goals against looked sloppy, could and should have tidied some of that up to preserve a big lead.

 

[Dreakmur]

Not a crush, I just don't get the hot takes based on a ridiculous narrative that is long past its due date. The numbers tell a story that the narrative is full of horse puckey, my eye test tells me that the narrative is also full of baloney.

There is not a defender in the league who isn't effected by what his partner does. There isn't a defender in the league that doesn't affect his partner with the plays he makes.

Bottom line is Holls numbers are good when he hasn't been paired with Muzzin who's numbers are below average no matter who he's paired with.

There has never ever been a player that gets through a complete game without making an error. Even whoever it is that you might be touting at the moment.

Muzzin is done, time to stick a fork in him.

Justin Holl sucks when it matters most.

 

[riffle]

Note the hook on the arm.

Here's the video of the play...you can see him motioning to the official:

 

[NinjaKick]

it's good to have some of these games before the playoffs, gotta learn and get away from it.
offensively... we can hang with anyone... just gotta figure out the team defence and goaltending.
much faith in the boys. GLG.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Here's the video of the play...you can see him motioning to the official

He got hacked twice.

We all know, in their barn, in OT, the penalty would have to be egregious to get called. this baby hooks are actually smart over time hockey

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Here's the video of the play...you can see him motioning to the official:

Impressive you got that video under 1 MB to get it to post !

 

[therealkoho]

Justin Holl sucks when it matters most.

Oh Dreak always on the hunt

 

[57 Years No Cup]

If you told me Sunday they'd take 3 points out of 4 in Fla I'd have been happy. So I'm happy.

The problem isn't in the amount of points they took it's the epic collapse. Again.

 

[Niagara Bill]

sure he is.

Sooooò, why didn't he? Why has he not this year except once that I recall,. If he can be called on to play, he could have started?
Coach or him?
Weak goaltending equals more golf

 

[zeke]

Sooooò, why didn't he? Why has he not this year except once that I recall,. If he can be called on to play, he could have started?
Coach or him?
Weak goaltending equals more golf

Because it's very rare for a goalie to play back to backs anymore. Almost never done.

Myself I thought it might be a rare opportunity where breaking the rule made sense.

 

[Superstar]

Here's the video of the play...you can see him motioning to the official:

The guy literally whacked Tavares on the arm as he was skating by preventing him from backhanding the puck...Tavares talked about that in the post-game interview...it was a penalty for sure, and if it was called fairly, a penalty shot.

 

[IrishInOntario]

You keep repeating over and over again that this will have a psychological effect and get in the team's head. Like you're trying to manifest it.
It was the backend of a back-to-back against the top team in the League at the end of a 5 game winning streak and stretch of 7 games in 11 days, where their starting goalie got injured, the backup, who was just off for a month, injured, came in cold, and they pushed it to overtime.

That's like the softest lob of, "hey guys, don't feel bad about this one"

How you think they'll take this game of all of them as the psychological snap is beyond me.



Where the psychological snaps come from is fans, media, and this market constantly shoving narratives like this down their throat.
They're fine after that game.

Yes, they let 5 straight goals in. Yes, they've done that before. But we have to let the past stop trying to paint everything. Believe it or not, it doesn't actually control the future, and we put a lot of weight on it.

You know who else let in 5 straight goals? Florida, when we made it 5-1 last night. Oh, boy. I bet they won't ever psychologically recover from that. This is the end of that team.
No. That's hockey. And high offensive teams often score in bunches. We scored 5 in the span of approximately one period, they scored 5 in the span of approximately one period. It went to overtime, we lost.

Sure there are somethings to work on. You never want to lose a lead, especially a big one, but c'mon...
The sky is not falling.

Nobody said the the sky is falling. What I've been saying is that this is just one in a pattern of these types of debacles, that have plagued the Leafs for years. Sportsnet released a stat today...

Since 2013, Toronto has blown 7 leads of 4 goals or greater in a game. No other team in the league has done that more than 4 times in that period, and the vast majority of have done it only 2-3 times. Blowing a massive lead like that is, by definition, a "Leafy" thing to do. And given that is spans two sets of core players, it can be defined as more of a cultural deficiency than a talent problem, fluke, etc.

 

[uncleben]

Nobody said the the sky is falling. What I've been saying is that this is just one in a pattern of these types of debacles, that have plagued the Leafs for years. Sportsnet released a stat today...

Since 2013, Toronto has blown 7 leads of 4 goals or greater in a game. No other team in the league has done that more than 4 times in that period, and the vast majority of have done it only 2-3 times. Blowing a massive lead like that is, by definition, a "Leafy" thing to do. And given that is spans two sets of core players, it can be defined as more of a cultural deficiency than a talent problem, fluke, etc.

The other account was repeating over and over about this being a psychological breaking point and the beginning of the end

Yeah, I saw that stat from Sportsnet. It's almost comical how torturous it is, as a Leafs fan.
But to me, this stat is more encouraging than that one is discouraging:
This year's Leafs are 33-1-3 when leading after 2 periods

If we have had a core since 2013 that has learned to not cave it's this one.
That doesn't mean we won't lose a lead occasionally, it's why the full 60min are played on ice, not paper, but I'm not too concerned about that game

 

[New Liskeard]

I think Kerfoot has 44 as well. Maybe 43?

That puts him in the 40's. For 11mil a year. That's tough to take.

Imagine how the Sharks would have felt, if John took the 13 mil per season that he was offered by San Jose? One of the biggest UFA's in a very long time and he took less with Toronto.

 

[New Liskeard]

I'd go

Rielly-Lyubushkin
Gio-Brodie
Muzzin-Liljegren

Muzz cannot handle top4 minutes

Switch Lilly and Brodie, Lily has been great with Gio, and Brodie can certianly help Muzzin

 

[riffle]

You keep repeating over and over again that this will have a psychological effect and get in the team's head. Like you're trying to manifest it.
It was the backend of a back-to-back against the top team in the League at the end of a 5 game winning streak and stretch of 7 games in 11 days, where their starting goalie got injured, the backup, who was just off for a month, injured, came in cold, and they pushed it to overtime.

That's like the softest lob of, "hey guys, don't feel bad about this one"

How you think they'll take this game of all of them as the psychological snap is beyond me.



Where the psychological snaps come from is fans, media, and this market constantly shoving narratives like this down their throat.
They're fine after that game.

Yes, they let 5 straight goals in. Yes, they've done that before. But we have to let the past stop trying to paint everything. Believe it or not, it doesn't actually control the future, and we put a lot of weight on it.

You know who else let in 5 straight goals? Florida, when we made it 5-1 last night. Oh, boy. I bet they won't ever psychologically recover from that. This is the end of that team.
No. That's hockey. And high offensive teams often score in bunches. We scored 5 in the span of approximately one period, they scored 5 in the span of approximately one period. It went to overtime, we lost.

Sure there are somethings to work on. You never want to lose a lead, especially a big one, but c'mon...
The sky is not falling.

I didn't see this reply until I saw someone reply to it.

No. I don't want to manifest it. We all have senses and feelings about situations we witness in life. All I've done is relay what I believe about what happened. You don't believe it, or if you do, you don't say you do, which is fine.

These games were really big to the Leafs as their HC stated prior to the game. They were really excited to play Florida last night and they played like it for a majority of the game. What was Florida's excitement level to play the Leafs? They've all but sewn up the division. I don't believe the Panthers had anywhere near the drive for this one that the Leafs did coming into it and that matters a great deal. When the playoffs come, the Panthers will be really up for those games. How much more can the Leafs elevate? The Leafs playing at a playoff level and the Panthers not going full-throttle may really skew perception. We'll see what gear the Panthers have above what we've seen from them and we'll also see what other gear the Leafs have. I do have concern that the Leafs are near capacity while Florida and Tampa were not.

The sky is not falling in the standings, but they did lose any legitimate shot at the division. I'm not worried about what it means for the right now. I'm worried about what this means for later.

When people reply to me they usually mainly focus on the Leafs as a whole as being fine because they got 3 of 4 points (when they should've gotten 4 of 4) but neglect to mention what this does for Jack Campbell. I'm not trying to manifest him not mentally handling this well. Everyone knows his story. Was this good or bad for Jack's psyche? It was bad. What will this mean for down the road? We'll see. What does this do for the team's confidence in him for later? We'll see. What does this do for this team when they grab a lead in a playoff game? We'll see. To think that losing a 5-1 lead to a team they may face in Round 1, in the stretch run, is nothing at all is odd to me. We think beating Boston and Tampa in their barns meant something. If that meant something and I think it did/does, then losing like that in Florida also means something. Can't claim the positive results matter and the negative ones don't.

 

[BrannigansLaw]

Nice goal by muzzin but he looks cooked overall.

He has been awful all year and I can't see him turning it around. Holl-muzzin pairing should never be a thing ever again. Keefe needs to wake up and end it for good

I’m willing to give him 5-6 games to get up to speed. If he keeps playing like he has prior to his injury, I’ll be worried. Hell no to Holl-Muzzin pair though. That pairing is a Chernobyl level disaster waiting to happen every shift.