Post-Game Talk: Leafs lose in the Marathon

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Except, Paul... Were you one saying... Don't listen to the morons who are concerned that the Leafs are up 3-1 in a series vs. Montreal? Look, they won 3-out-of-4 and have 3 chances to win the series with 2 on home ice. Relax, don't get caught up in what the morons say.

Game 7 in Boston... don't even need to tell you what Biss may have said that night.

You don't worry and are a moron if you haven't seen it all before. You don't worry and are a moron if you have a goalie who is level between his ears. Leafs are neither of these two things. There's a few weeks left in this regular season. It's not like this loss was in October where it will long be forgotten. This one will resonate and hang over the Leafs in any game they take a big lead in the playoffs. It will be in everyone here's head, too. How could it not? It will be.

Sports have a huge psychological component to them. No matter what anyone says, last night was not good for the psychological bank account, for their team, and even more for their #1 goalie.

There will be a disconnect between those who want to celebrate 3 of 4 points in Florida and those who look at the longer lasting psychological impact. Yeah, they can play with these teams is the psychological take away? The Leafs knew that before they went to Florida having beaten both of them already. Perhaps, about how they might do in Florida buildings? Leafs have beaten Tampa down here, and if memory serves, they did so the last time they were there before this trip. You think the Devils feel like they can beat Florida because they lost like we did to them in even worse fashion? And, do you think the Leafs could do what Florida just did to them back to Florida? I don't.

Why watch them is something that might be said in reply. Great question. You never know for sure what will happen. Just like you didn't think being up 5-1 and up 3-1 in a series could lead to such a feeling of discontent, it is not sustainable. One day the fortune will turn. Just seems, again, this year is not the likely year, and when it ends, you will see the ol' throw of the hands up saying things like...Well, we all knew this wasn't going to work with our goaltending issues. That's a given. So, why can't we acknowledge that is the likeliest thing to happen and still hope for the best? Why pretend that isn't the likely outcome?
 
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back to back 3 out of 4 points; both against divisional rivals. I'll take it.

I think we see Florida 2 more times. We;ll get it done then.

P.S. Enough with the Holl love fest Keefe. ENOUGH!!!!
admittedly Holl should have had Reinharts stick tied up, but Muzzin totally mis-played it and should have never allowed Barkov to so easily set up and get the pass across, otherwise he had a decent night and covered up for the myriad of Muzzin miscues.

I know they pay Muzzin multi millions and so feel obligated to play him, but whatever he had that got him that contract seems to have deserted him. He looked totally out of synch.

The d- pairings that Keefe iced against Tampa are what they should have stayed with. Although even Brodie looked out of sorts last night but looks totally focused when playing with Holl.
 
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Except, Paul... Were you one saying... Don't listen to the morons who are concerned that the Leafs are up 3-1 in a series vs. Montreal? Look, they won 3-out-of-4 and have 3 chances to win the series with 2 on home ice. Relax, don't get caught up in what the morons say.

Game 7 in Boston... don't even need to tell you what Biss may have said that night.

You don't worry and are a moron if you haven't seen it all before. You don't worry and are a moron if you have a goalie who is level between his ears. Leafs are neither of these two things. There's a few weeks left in this regular season. It's not like this loss was in October where it will long be forgotten. This one will resonate and hang over the Leafs in any game they take a big lead in the playoffs. It will be in everyone here's head, too. How could it not? It will be.

Sports have a huge psychological component to them. No matter what anyone says, last night was not good for the psychological bank account, for their team, and even more for their #1 goalie.

There will be a disconnect between those who want to celebrate 3 of 4 points in Florida and those who look at the longer lasting psychological impact. Yeah, they can play with these teams is the psychological take away? The Leafs knew that before they went to Florida having beaten both of them already. Perhaps, about how they might do in Florida buildings? Leafs have beaten Tampa down here, and if memory serves, they did so the last time they were there before this trip. You think the Devils feel like they can beat Florida because they lost like we did to them in even worse fashion? And, do you think the Leafs could do what Florida just did to them back to Florida? I don't.

Why watch them is something that might be said in reply. Great question. You never know for sure what will happen. Just like you didn't think being up 5-1 and up 3-1 in a series could lead to such a feeling of discontent, it is not sustainable. One day the fortune will turn. Just seems, again, this year is not the likely year, and when it ends, you will see the ol' throw of the hands up saying things like...Well, we all knew this wasn't going to work with our goaltending issues. That's a given. So, why can't we acknowledge that is the likeliest thing to happen and still hope for the best? Why pretend that isn't the likely outcome?

The season is full of ups and down. "You need to relax" is what Paul is saying.

This is our team. Noise or no noise...this is our team. Our fan base plans parades one day and less then 24 hours is cancelling the season.

It's a god damn joke of a fan base who appears to get more emotional then a pregnant woman watching soap operas with a bucket of ice cream.

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Nobody can predict what's going to happen in the playoffs. It's all about which team finds a groove and goes on a heater. Did anyone think Montreal was going to make it to the finals? Did anyone think St Louis was going to win the cup the year they won? Or Washington? Having had so many years of first or second round exits?

We watch because we don't know. Nobody knows. We hope. That's the best we can do.

RE- LAX. Or don't watch? If you think it's a forgone conclusion, why bother watching?

I get great enjoyment from watching the many drastic mood swings this fan base goes through on the regular. One would assume that a fanbase of a team with 100 years of history would know better...but apparently we don't. We are just the loudest.

Yuck.

This season has been amazing! We far outplayed my expectations and both Matthews and Marner have hit another level which I thought wasn't possible. Matthews has 7 games less played and will still win the rocket. AND HE'S A MAPLE LEAF!

Marner has outscored McDavid since the Christmas break (no short stretch) and McDavid has gone on a heater!

This team is fun as hell to watch right now. We stack up competitive against any team in the league. I fear nobody.
 
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The season is full of ups and down. "You need to relax" is what Paul is saying.

This is our team. Noise or no noise...this is our team. Our fan base plans parades one day and less then 24 hours is cancelling the season.

It's a god damn joke of a fan base who appears to get more emotional then a pregnant woman watching soap operas with a bucket of ice cream.

Nobody can predict what's going to happen in the playoffs. It's all about which team finds a groove and goes on a heater. Did anyone think Montreal was going to make it to the finals? Did anyone think St Louis was going to win the cup the year they won? Or Washington? Having had so many years of first or second round exits?

We watch because we don't know. Nobody knows. We hope. That's the best we can do.

RE- LAX. Or don't watch? If you think it's a forgone conclusion, why bother watching?
I just love this. I addressed this in my post.

Relax is not what you do. Isn't that what you did when the Leafs were up 3-1 vs. Montreal last season?

Relax is not what you do when you're up in the 3rd period of Game 7 vs. Boston.

There is way too much psychological history with the Leafs. Don't even need to recount all of it. It is evident to any Leafs fan. So, when you see another psychological hit to them like a pinata, your reaction is to just relax? Why? To avoid what you're really feeling and don't want to?

I would rather acknowledge it than to pretend it doesn't exist as if me pretending it doesn't exist will actually make it go away?

You are right. Nobody knows. Not me. Not you. Nobody. That is why I watch. Things are not sustainable. One day a Leafs team will win a series, again. Will it be this one? Could be. But, to think last night wasn't a big negative for them psychologically is ignoring the evidence of your own eyes.

BTW, Jack posted an .846 last night. Kallgren, the guy being called an AHL goalie to avoid other issues, posted a higher percentage than our #1. Florida, if they have to face us, will never be out of any game against us. That could be Round 1. All I'm saying is, I like to embrace what happened and not pretend it didn't nor make reach rationalizations. We all do it differently. I respect your right to feel relaxed, but I will tell you why I feel otherwise. Makes for a better board reading everyone's varied takes.
 
I just love this. I addressed this in my post.

Relax is not what you do. Isn't that what you did when the Leafs were up 3-1 vs. Montreal last season?

Relax is not what you do when you're up in the 3rd period of Game 7 vs. Boston.

There is way too much psychological history with the Leafs. Don't even need to recount all of it. It is evident to any Leafs fan. So, when you see another psychological hit to them like a pinata, your reaction is to just relax? Why? To avoid what you're really feeling and don't want to?

I would rather acknowledge it than to pretend it doesn't exist as if me pretending it doesn't exist will actually make it go away?

You are right. Nobody knows. Not me. Not you. Nobody. That is why I watch. Things are not sustainable. One day a Leafs team will win a series, again. Will it be this one? Could be. But, to think last night wasn't a big negative for them psychologically is ignoring the evidence of your own eyes.

Relax is what the FAN BASE should do. Are you playing in the games, Riffle? I'd probably still tell the players to RELAX. Don't grab your sticks too hard. Stick to your game and keep it simple.

Relax is more for the over emotional fan base with the drastic mood swings. The people who have no power over the outcome of the games but only serve as an example of embarrassment for the rest of us.

Re. Lax.
 
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Tend to agree with Keefe. Team showed they can compete against the big boys. Dumb penalties, bad PK, one stinker SH goal cost us.

Great to see Muzzin back but seems most of the D forgot how to defend last night.
 
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I’m ok with the 1 pt when all is said and done. But to me the turning point was that horrendous Gudas goal. We likely put this away if it wasn’t for that. Also our defence was a complete mess today
don't disagree Kally should've had it, there should've been no way that got by him

the 5th Florida goal had a lot of odour to it as well, Marner is clearly tripped when he comes out to the high slot to gain possession of the loose puck, instead Florida regains possession, works the puck down low and sets up Huberdeau on the left side.
 
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Relax is what the FAN BASE should do. Are you playing in the games, Riffle? I'd probably still tell the players to RELAX. Don't grab your sticks too hard. Stick to your game and keep it simple.

Relax is more for the over emotional fan base with the drastic mood swings. The people who have no power over the outcome of the games but only serve as an example of embarrassment for the rest of us.

Re. Lax.
Do I play is the retort? Wow.

The fan base should not be relaxed unless it wishes to pretend last night didn't happen. The goalie situation brings you comfort? It doesn't for me.

I asked you questions. Were you relaxed up 3-1 vs. Montreal last season? Should you have been. You don't play so I guess every and any thought or question is irrelevant?

You type this to avoid the heart of the matter. It was a brutal blow to the Leafs last night. Fatal? I guess we'll see how they play with a lead when it really really matters. What are you pinning your relaxed feelings on regarding that issue? It is not distant history, nor recent, so, what?
 
Honestly, this was a fairly even matchup. This was a game that we should’ve won, however the play over the last 5 games has been encouraging.

the usuals that have concerning attitude swings game to game will be melting down over this game, but overall, this has been one of the most promising stretches of the year.

Keep the overall play heading into games against Dallas, Montreal and Buffalo and we’ll likely be able to pick up another 6 points
 
That's what happens when you take a big lead and take the foot off the pedal in a back to back. It's impossible to get it going again. Legs seemed heavy in second half of game. Keefe should not have double shifted 16 & 34 in OT. They had nothing left in the tank, it was obvious. Live and hopefully learn!
 
That's what happens when you take a big lead and take the foot off the pedal in a back to back. It's impossible to get it going again. Legs seemed heavy in second half of game. Keefe should not have double shifted 16 & 34 in OT. They had nothing left in the tank, it was obvious. Live and hopefully learn!
Or they just gased because of back to back and Florida is that good?
 
Clifford should not play again... Ever!
along with the other the guy they got from LA

I thought it was the injuries that effected him starting late last season and certainly early into this season, but it's become clear to me he is no longer in the top 6, is he at least still a 7th? sadly that's no longer the case on this team especially when both Lilj and Sandin are both healthy.

Gio - Lilj
Morgs - Lube
Brodie - Holl
Sandin

Muzzin
 
It was Muzzin’s first game back, take it easy. I’m sure it’ll take a few games to get his legs moving, he’s been off for quite some time.
 
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Do I play is the retort? Wow.

The fan base should not be relaxed unless it wishes to pretend last night didn't happen. The goalie situation brings you comfort? It doesn't for me.

I asked you questions. Were you relaxed up 3-1 vs. Montreal last season? Should you have been. You don't play so I guess every and any thought or question is irrelevant?

You type this to avoid the heart of the matter. It was a brutal blow to the Leafs last night. Fatal? I guess we'll see how they play with a lead when it really really matters. What are you pinning your relaxed feelings on regarding that issue? It is not distant history, nor recent, so, what?
yes, the fanbase should absolutely relax, its a game; not the end of the world.

brutal blow lol. They had a bad second half of a game in a back to back situation; absolutely devastating.
 
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Do I play is the retort? Wow.

The fan base should not be relaxed unless it wishes to pretend last night didn't happen. The goalie situation brings you comfort? It doesn't for me.

I asked you questions. Were you relaxed up 3-1 vs. Montreal last season? Should you have been. You don't play so I guess every and any thought or question is irrelevant?

You type this to avoid the heart of the matter. It was a brutal blow to the Leafs last night. Fatal? I guess we'll see how they play with a lead when it really really matters. What are you pinning your relaxed feelings on regarding that issue? It is not distant history, nor recent, so, what?
I was giddy when the Leafs were up 3-1 last year. I was sad when they lost game 6 because I knew it was over. I, like yourself have no impact to the outcome of any of this. We are merely observers. Noise or no noise, what will happen will happen.

The heart of the matter is that it was the second game on a back to back against the best team in the league who is the best team in the league for a reason and we battled with them and got a point. Sure we gave up a 5-1 lead. So? They let in 6 goals against us. Their goalies looked bad, ours looked bad. Our top players scored even though they have great defense...so did theirs. We looked great for the first half and then we gased.

It's a nothing game at the end of the day. Our seated position and who we will play in the playoffs is pretty much going to be Tampa or Boston. And I like our chances against either of them. So this game was just a measuring stick to see how we fair under sub optimal conditions. And I think we came out looking like we can expose them just as much as they can expose us.

Their fan base is probably saying "if we think we can win the cup by constantly spotting the other team a 5-1 lead we are in for a huge wake up call"

My getting emotionally hysterical like you suggest does nothing. NOTHING. It only helps in making our fanbase look ridiculous. Like I shouldn't have to explain you how meaningless the rest of the games are in the season? Are you not aware? All they are is a formality and a chance for the team to get into a groove at the right time. And more importantly a race for the rocket. That's it.

So why the hell are you getting so upset?
 
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They got up 5-1, took their foot off the pedal just a touch, PP and bad goal against and the momentum completly changed... our team is not great at stopping momentum, but hard to fault their battle level to get the point and take it to overtime.

A win vs Tampa, and an OT loss to Florida are not reasons to be worried for me.

As always, how they play vs Dallas will be telling as to their mental toughness. Coming off two 'high-importance' divisional games to a game vs a non-conference opponent.

As the game wore on and FLA upped their compete level I felt our D started to break. 12 games or so left to figure out the optimal D pairs in time for game 1. I would suggest, last night was not optimal.

Small thought on Liljegren, I thought, even away from Gio, he was excellent! Played agressive all night. Loving his progression.
 
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Except, Paul... Were you one saying... Don't listen to the morons who are concerned that the Leafs are up 3-1 in a series vs. Montreal? Look, they won 3-out-of-4 and have 3 chances to win the series with 2 on home ice. Relax, don't get caught up in what the morons say.

Game 7 in Boston... don't even need to tell you what Biss may have said that night.

You don't worry and are a moron if you haven't seen it all before. You don't worry and are a moron if you have a goalie who is level between his ears. Leafs are neither of these two things. There's a few weeks left in this regular season. It's not like this loss was in October where it will long be forgotten. This one will resonate and hang over the Leafs in any game they take a big lead in the playoffs. It will be in everyone here's head, too. How could it not? It will be.

Sports have a huge psychological component to them. No matter what anyone says, last night was not good for the psychological bank account, for their team, and even more for their #1 goalie.

There will be a disconnect between those who want to celebrate 3 of 4 points in Florida and those who look at the longer lasting psychological impact. Yeah, they can play with these teams is the psychological take away? The Leafs knew that before they went to Florida having beaten both of them already. Perhaps, about how they might do in Florida buildings? Leafs have beaten Tampa down here, and if memory serves, they did so the last time they were there before this trip. You think the Devils feel like they can beat Florida because they lost like we did to them in even worse fashion? And, do you think the Leafs could do what Florida just did to them back to Florida? I don't.

Why watch them is something that might be said in reply. Great question. You never know for sure what will happen. Just like you didn't think being up 5-1 and up 3-1 in a series could lead to such a feeling of discontent, it is not sustainable. One day the fortune will turn. Just seems, again, this year is not the likely year, and when it ends, you will see the ol' throw of the hands up saying things like...Well, we all knew this wasn't going to work with our goaltending issues. That's a given. So, why can't we acknowledge that is the likeliest thing to happen and still hope for the best? Why pretend that isn't the likely outcome?


You keep repeating over and over again that this will have a psychological effect and get in the team's head. Like you're trying to manifest it.
It was the backend of a back-to-back against the top team in the League at the end of a 5 game winning streak and stretch of 7 games in 11 days, where their starting goalie got injured, the backup, who was just off for a month, injured, came in cold, and they pushed it to overtime.

That's like the softest lob of, "hey guys, don't feel bad about this one"

How you think they'll take this game of all of them as the psychological snap is beyond me.



Where the psychological snaps come from is fans, media, and this market constantly shoving narratives like this down their throat.
They're fine after that game.

Yes, they let 5 straight goals in. Yes, they've done that before. But we have to let the past stop trying to paint everything. Believe it or not, it doesn't actually control the future, and we put a lot of weight on it.

You know who else let in 5 straight goals? Florida, when we made it 5-1 last night. Oh, boy. I bet they won't ever psychologically recover from that. This is the end of that team.
No. That's hockey. And high offensive teams often score in bunches. We scored 5 in the span of approximately one period, they scored 5 in the span of approximately one period. It went to overtime, we lost.

Sure there are somethings to work on. You never want to lose a lead, especially a big one, but c'mon...
The sky is not falling.
 
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I love the 3/4 points talk, completely ignoring them blowing a 4 goal lead, as if that regularly happens to the good teams in the NHL and as if blowing leads isn't still a major concern for this team.

Nothing to see here lol!
Well I do suppose we could all just stress out and tunnel onto that one fact and that one fact only, but it's also a fact that they took 3 or the 4 available points on the road in Fla, something that most here didn't think was possible., in fact looking at the Tampa GDT's a majority of the people here didn't think even one W was possible because of how much better the FLA teams were.

I'm, as you may or may not know, a pretty optimistic guy and tend to look at the bright side, while trying to find a little sugar in the shine-o-la as they used to say. I was hoping that the best case scenario is that we'd split and come away with at least two of the four points. So, yeah 3 of the 4 is a sweet pre-easter treat.
 
I just love this. I addressed this in my post.

Relax is not what you do. Isn't that what you did when the Leafs were up 3-1 vs. Montreal last season?

Relax is not what you do when you're up in the 3rd period of Game 7 vs. Boston.

There is way too much psychological history with the Leafs. Don't even need to recount all of it. It is evident to any Leafs fan. So, when you see another psychological hit to them like a pinata, your reaction is to just relax? Why? To avoid what you're really feeling and don't want to?

I would rather acknowledge it than to pretend it doesn't exist as if me pretending it doesn't exist will actually make it go away?

You are right. Nobody knows. Not me. Not you. Nobody. That is why I watch. Things are not sustainable. One day a Leafs team will win a series, again. Will it be this one? Could be. But, to think last night wasn't a big negative for them psychologically is ignoring the evidence of your own eyes.

BTW, Jack posted an .846 last night. Kallgren, the guy being called an AHL goalie to avoid other issues, posted a higher percentage than our #1. Florida, if they have to face us, will never be out of any game against us. That could be Round 1. All I'm saying is, I like to embrace what happened and not pretend it didn't nor make reach rationalizations. We all do it differently. I respect your right to feel relaxed, but I will tell you why I feel otherwise. Makes for a better board reading everyone's varied takes.
And the game before? And the four before that? As a whole, do you accept this run and the manner in which it's been achieved or is the focus a blown 5-1 lead on the same team we beat 5-2 a week ago?

Take things like rest (Campbell's gotta be spelled a bit here and there) and momentum (Momentum already tilting in their own barn no less and they, a very good club given multiple PP opportunities.) and law of averages (We beat Florida, Boston, Winnipeg, Philadelphia and TAMPA before FLORIDA tied it)...and the swoon should be more of a shrug.

That hiccup comes at a perfect time, before the playoffs, to remind what it means to check their emotions in leads. We get that nailed down while building off of our latest trend and we're giving ourselves a great line to charge from.

Factor in chemistry: Muzzin comes back, pairings hold until the middle of the game and then crack. First game back, we want Muzzin ready for the playoffs right? Well, chemistry, first game back, these aren't excuses, they're repeatable, observable known facts of the game.

Too much to be encouraged by this last stretch to believe - or want to believe - that comebacks aren't a part of good games against good teams

And what about the converse? How should Florida's fanbase take their last two games against us? Got beat here soundly. Almost got beat worse there and but for a very opportune set of circumstances pulled out the win. I prefer our game and 2/3rds to their performance.

Mark the 23rd; I'll bet a round we shake Florida again.
 
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I was giddy when the Leafs were up 3-1 last year. I was sad when they lost game 6 because I knew it was over. I, like yourself have no impact to the outcome of any of this. We are merely observers. Noise or no noise, what will happen will happen.

The heart of the matter is that it was the second game on a back to back against the best team in the league who is the best team in the league for a reason and we battled with them and got a point. Sure we gave up a 5-1 lead. So? They let in 6 goals against us? Their goalies looked bad, ours looked bad. Our top players scored even though they have great defense...so did theirs. We looked great for the first half and then we gased.

It's a nothing game at the end of the day. Our seated position and who we will play in the playoffs is pretty much going to be Tampa or Boston. And I like our chances against either of them. So this game was just a measuring stick to see how we fair under sub optimal conditions. And I think we came out looking like we can expose them just as much as they can expose us.

Their fan base is probably saying "if we think we can win the cup by constantly spotting the other team a 5-1 lead we are in for a huge wake up call"

My getting emotionally hysterical like you suggest does nothing. NOTHING. It only helps it making our fanbase look ridiculous. Like I shouldn't have to explain you how meaningless the rest of the games are in the season? Are you not aware? All they are is a formality and a chance for the team to get into a groove at the right time. And more importantly a race for the rocket. That's it.

So why the hell are you getting so upset?
I'm not emotionally hysterical. I'm calmly relating what I believe are the realities of this situation.

Your hope rides on randomness. Not on what you've seen with your own eyes, but randomness to even out what you've actually witnessed. Sure, randomness may come through for us. It seems to have worked against us, especially during the Montreal series last year. Perhaps, we're owed some positive randomness.

You seem to be continually ignoring what I'm saying. That this was psychologically damaging to the Leafs. Why that would be controversial is baffling.

Hey, I take some positives out of this. Marner has to feel good about his game vs. both Florida teams. Nylander and Blackwell, too. We need secondary scoring to win. Kallgren has to feel pretty good save for the Gudas goal. He showed well before that disaster of a goal.

We have seen the bench make error after error all season long with too many men penalties. We have seen our goaltending be horrific. We have seen this team blow big leads that don't always lead to losses like last night.

Do you honestly feel good inside about this teams chances this season? I don't. I realize it is possible they win a round. If you had a choice, would you rather have seen the Leafs put the hammer down and win 8-1 or lose 7-6 after being up 5-1? Answer is obvious. That is what I wanted as a fan. To see my team show killer instinct, not their old tried and true formula of collapsing a few weeks before the games really count.

Do you feel good about the goaltending situation? I don't. I realize it's possible Jack gets hot just like Michael Hutchinson could get hot. Again, that randomness is hard to pin your hopes on. Reality is a cruel mistress and she's calling out from the bedroom after last night.
 
Well I do suppose we could all just stress out and tunnel onto that one fact and that one fact only, but it's also a fact that they took 3 or the 4 available points on the road in Fla, something that most here didn't think was possible., in fact looking at the Tampa GDT's a majority of the people here didn't think even one W was possible because of how much better the FLA teams were.

I'm, as you may or may not know, a pretty optimistic guy and tend to look at the bright side, while trying to find a little sugar in the shine-o-la as they used to say. I was hoping that the best case scenario is that we'd split and come away with at least two of the four points. So, yeah 3 of the 4 is a sweet pre-easter treat.
I expected a win at Tampa and a loss at Florida. I expected the loss at Florida because this organization seems to think it is nearly impossible to sweep a back-to-back. It's part of their psychology and why I feel last night's loss was such a big blow. Had they lost 5-1 like we were up to them, we could've said, hey, we always play poorly on back-to-backs. Jack wasn't in net. Muzz was getting the rust out. It was 3rd in 4 nights. The excuse for the team would be easy sells to the guys because those are truths. Now, they have to justify to themselves losing after a 5-1 lead, and seeing their #1 post an .846 after starting to believe he was a rock for them again.
 
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