ToneDog
56 years and counting. #FireTheShanaClan!
Sorry the answer is not on the Marlies IMO. If a major shakeup is needed, it is too late for Kyle.
Post-Game Talk: Leafs lose in OT
- Thread starter Leaf Rocket
- Start date
Sorry the answer is not on the Marlies IMO. If a major shakeup is needed, it is too late for Kyle.
If you can show me a single Leafs player that has shown 75% of the commitment, heart, desire, drive, and will to win that a once-in-a-lifetime Crosby has showed in his career, I'm all ears.
I also have zero, and I do mean zero, idea why Crosby is being mentioned in this conversation. Is this akin to saying never draft a Swede, because Rickard Wallin was useless?
Seriously, what does Crosby have to do with the Leafs, their players, their coach or their management?
It was just another in a series of bad decisions by a coach that is in way over his head.
- Team is struggling and badly needs a decisive win
- One of the only bright spots has been Samsonov
- The team hasn't played in 3 days
- They have a B2B coming up where you know you will need the backup for one of them.
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I expected exactly this, and I said so this summer on this forum. Despite the record last year, mainly due to the progress of the Big Three, this roster looked weaker to me -- even though somehow people magically saw the "best roster" ever. Whatever planet Leaf fans are living on, I believe it is the result of trying to find hope at all cost through decades of pain. They are traumatized. I have been here for 33 years, but lived in other NHL cities before that. Toronto is "special".
But let's be clear about expectations:
1. People here talk about a Top 6 and Bottom 6 and see this as a natural divide. It is not. You need a stronger third line. It is a key bridge between distributed threat on offence and easier defending by the other team because our offense is too concentrated. The third line is weak. Look at the past third lines on those teams with a "weaker" roster: Kadri, Johnnson, Kapanen. C'mon people.
2. The defence is a perennial problem that does not get solved. This defence is worse, not better, than some past versions. There are three people here who have questionable skills -- all the former Marlies -- plus Rielly is just way overrated. We don't have a "stud" defenceman who can play at both ends.
3. Goalies: TBD, for sure, but it is too early to know whether the current lineup is alright, or a disaster. But better here? Doubtful.
4. Coaching: watching that documentary on the Leafs a few years convinced me Keefe is NOT an NHL coach. You can see it in the player's eyes. He has no authority, he seems to be trying too hard to please the big boys, they don't respect him. Throwing F_bombs in the dressing room does not a coach make.
5. Matthew / Marner: is there an attitude issue here with respect to the rest of the team? Are they on their own? Marner's celly on his first goal was really off-putting: c'mon, give it to me, motioning to the crowd. Yeah, we will give it to you once you win a playoff.
6. Clark Kent: this GM has no Superman uniform to change into, because he is not Superman. You signed Tavares at 11 million, and the dominoes fell.. including losing Kadri.
But let's be clear about expectations:
1. People here talk about a Top 6 and Bottom 6 and see this as a natural divide. It is not. You need a stronger third line. It is a key bridge between distributed threat on offence and easier defending by the other team because our offense is too concentrated. The third line is weak. Look at the past third lines on those teams with a "weaker" roster: Kadri, Johnnson, Kapanen. C'mon people.
2. The defence is a perennial problem that does not get solved. This defence is worse, not better, than some past versions. There are three people here who have questionable skills -- all the former Marlies -- plus Rielly is just way overrated. We don't have a "stud" defenceman who can play at both ends.
3. Goalies: TBD, for sure, but it is too early to know whether the current lineup is alright, or a disaster. But better here? Doubtful.
4. Coaching: watching that documentary on the Leafs a few years convinced me Keefe is NOT an NHL coach. You can see it in the player's eyes. He has no authority, he seems to be trying too hard to please the big boys, they don't respect him. Throwing F_bombs in the dressing room does not a coach make.
5. Matthew / Marner: is there an attitude issue here with respect to the rest of the team? Are they on their own? Marner's celly on his first goal was really off-putting: c'mon, give it to me, motioning to the crowd. Yeah, we will give it to you once you win a playoff.
6. Clark Kent: this GM has no Superman uniform to change into, because he is not Superman. You signed Tavares at 11 million, and the dominoes fell.. including losing Kadri.
He's scared shitless of upsetting Marner and Matthews and there's obviously a directive from his GM that he's not allowed to.
Dubas on his way to undermining Coach number 2
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It’s about team construction and finding players that compete.
Also the 3 cups alone were won under 2 different GMs and 5 coaches ( two years they fired the HC leading up to the cup).
So I don't know what he was getting at
ULF_55
Moderator
Again, I'm suggesting it is about the players. It isn't about the GM, other than a GM who will change the players. Coming right back to it's about the players.
Sid had a GM change between cups. It's 100% about the GM when he has open door meetings to address issues for whatever reason ( as shown from Netflix) and has a history of over catering to them
Guided by Veseys
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The team could have some trouble this year. Hopefully won’t end up on the bubble. Seems like everybody saw that the Atlantic division was going to be more difficult but somehow the entire organization from top down didn’t come into the season with enough urgency. Now the team is languidly bleeding away points against bottom feeders. Wonder how this will all look in the spring. They might turn it around but the team isn’t looking much like a contender.
57 Years No Cup
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Don't hold back, tell us how you REALLY feel...
Ianturnedbull
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I think now.
When a good team stumbles a little at the start of a season you can tell that a few corrections will turn things around. I think TOR is beyond a few corrections. The injuries alone are significant. Are Malgin, ZAR, Engvall, and NAK going to be way better than they are now?
I hate to say it, but a playoff birth might be the ultimate goal this season. No way they are a cup contender.
ULF_55
Moderator
I agree it is about the GM not changing the core.
Great players don't care who is in GM Box.
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Is that a shot at the GM? Is a guy with 75 NHL games under his belt going to be a saviour when he returns from LTIR?
Ok.
Then we need a GM who can identify those players. The GM needs to move on from those players that aren't like Crosby or the 90s Red Wings.
Our current GM has proven he cannot do either of those tasks.
So what do we do? Just wait until they retire or leave via FA?
Tough to build a deep enough team and team chemistry when good players are allowed to walk every off season and their cheap replacements aren’t capable replacements. You don’t think the players notice this? They are also forced to hold onto players like Holl and Engvall and who aren’t dependable and add very little to the team. Top loaded lineup that when they’re not setting scoring records are too easy to defend and get shutdown in decisive playoff games. But Dubas just runs it back every year hoping for different results. The clock is ticking on this management group. No respectable organization with Championship aspirations would have waited this long.
ULF_55
Moderator
I'm all for changing everything.
GM - hasn't got it done
Coaches - haven't got it done
Players - haven't got it done
A new GM won't make the existing players different.
A new coach would change the system.
New players might be winners.
justashadowof
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First goal was pretty much on Matthews and his lazy backcheck. Matthews started a couple of strides ahead of Couture. As much fun as it is to pile on the whipping boy du jour, Holl had mostly handled the other rushing Shark. Matthews wouldn't have had to do much on the backcheck either, maybe knock the puck into the corner or lifted Couture's stick.
Any major change to this core four will probably happen in the off-season. Probably way to difficult of a trade to make in season.
As great as Marner is, I’d be looking at a star with a better shot in return. Acquire better bottom six depth players who can replace Marner on the PK.
As great as Marner is, I’d be looking at a star with a better shot in return. Acquire better bottom six depth players who can replace Marner on the PK.
justashadowof
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