Post-Game Talk: Leafs Lose in Game 7. Again.

[Mess]

The moment Holl ran that pick I knew that was interference; I was just hoping refs didn't see it. That was the right call.

I'm actually surprised at the misdirected anger on the play..

Why are more Leaf fans not angry at Holl's obvious bonehead interference play?

The Refs hand went up immediately and he even blew the whistle before Tavares took the shot.. They had called a delayed penalty on play, so there was really nothing to dispute about the goal as the the play was ruled dead with JT in possession after the foul occured, only the player that took the dumb penalty should be the one fans should be angry at. IMO

Fans getting angry at missed calls, I get that, but trying to overrule valid ones seems fruitless.

 

[cannucky]

Kadri isn't signing for less than 6.4 and even if he would we tried that, he was an idiot muple times and got himself suspended in the playoffs, in fact he's done that 3 times the past 4 years.

no thanks he's not dependable

Top five center all year until got cheap shot and the coach decided to rest him until the Playoffs and Kadri is absolutely going to sign for less than 6.4 wherever that ends up being because of his age . He was a man playing with p***yes and if this GM had a Simmons and or Clifford in the lineup he wouldn't have felt the need to take on that role , you go ahead and continue to play your bitter little narrative against one of the best players in the league this year who will absolutely be available and for the record I was just providing an identifiable example of how moving JT would make the team deeper but you can't see that eh !

 

[Fabiobest]

They are one in the same when the refs dictate the outcome of the game

Game 6, phantom PP give Tampa a goal. Should've been an embellishment penalty on Foote. OT Matthews is held, Bunting elbowed, Muzzin elbowed, Holl hooked and tackled, no call on any of them, TB scores the OT winner

Game 7, TB player is literally sitting on Kampf for 10 seconds, who would be the checker on Paul, instead Paul goes up the ice without being disrupted and scores goal #1. Then goal #2 Killorn is holding Muzzin down and grabs his stick out of his hand, making him unable to check Paul, Paul scores #2. Holl sets a pick, it's immediately called no goal, Leafs on the PK. Nylander going on a breakway, gets held, no call. Nylander tripped in 3rd period when Leafs are on the PP no call

Now please tell me if I'm lying about any of those. Those plays dictated the outcomes of game 6 and 7

I only want to tell you that make excuses and talking only about the refs do not make your team better.
Focus on the positive aspect of the series and try to eliminate/change the negative ones.
That's my advice.

 

[steam whistle]

When oiler get new coach woodcraft, has anyone ever heard about him? So, it's not only solution for knocking Trotz door yet, there will be others coach solutions.

 

[hoglund]

Exactly. You bring back the same core, it will be the same result next year. I don't see how we are not facing either FLA or TB in the first round next year.

They blew their chance last year with the easiest route to the finals where Tampa Bay wasn't faced until the finals.

 

[Legion34]

of course he's going to say that in front of the cameras. what else is he going to say?

hopefully they have some inside locker room footage, it'll show them laughing their asses off as they clowned the leafs without point, a sick kucherov. paul nick single handedly destroyed the big 4, and smacked marner after he scored the series winning goal.

Are you actually like this. Or is this trolling? I am confused as to whether to block or not?

 

[Phion Keneuf]

Enough complaining about the refs. This team lacks killer instinct.

Get back out there and score a f***ing goal after a bad call.

 

[Legion34]

I just watched again. Leafs are as good and maybe even better than the lightning.

No question they controlled the play and chances.

Toronto is as good as a potential dynasty team now.

But the old wounds make it hard to see light at the end of the tunnel. Would it have been better to miss a few early times?

Really not sure what to do. Even Campbell looked good.

I’m guessing they drop. Holl. Kerfoot. Miky.

Keep

Bunting. Matty. Marner
Xxxxxxx. JT. Nylander
Engvall. Kampf. Xxxxxxxx
Spezza. Steeves. Simmonds

Rielly. Brodie
Muzz. Sandin.
Gio. Lilly.

I have no idea what the team needs. They are good enough to win. You can see it.

I would go for trots. TBH.

 

[Mess]

Enough complaining about the refs. This team lacks killer instinct.

Get back out there and score a f***ing goal after a bad call.

They did.

The score was 1-0 Tampa when the Tavares play happened.

2nd Period
8:32		Justin Holl: 2 minutes for Interference Anthony Cirelli

Morgan Rielly scored shortly thereafter to even the score at 1-1.

2nd Period		TOR
13:25		Morgan Rielly (3) Assists: Auston Matthews (5), Mitchell Marner (6)	1	1

 

[PromisedLand]

I'm actually surprised at the misdirected anger on the play..

Why are more Leaf fans not angry at Holl's obvious bonehead interference play?

The Refs hand went up immediately and he even blew the whistle before Tavares took the shot.. They had called a delayed penalty on play, so there was really nothing to dispute about the goal as the the play was ruled dead with JT in possession after the foul occured, only the player that took the dumb penalty should be the one fans should be angry at. IMO

Fans getting angry at missed calls, I get that, but trying to overrule valid ones seems fruitless.

Just look at Point's OT goal in Game 6 and look at what Holl is doing. The dubas and keefe fans do not call that out either. Leafs down a goal and Holl giving up possession of the puck by making stupid plays not a peep out of dubas fans.

it just goes on to show where these peoples' loyalties lie. It is not with teh maple leaf logo thats for sure

That siad,

I am very GLAD and HAPPY that Dubas didn't throw away the 1st rounder this time around or trade a top prospect. Whether it was done purposefully or due to cap restrictions he just couldn't do it I am not sure

 

[Nineteen67]

So "getting in the way" is interference? Isn't that specifically the defenseman's job? To get in the way and stop opposing players? What, are they supposed to just "move out of the way"?

I feel like I'm watching an entirely different sport. The front of the net is a warzone and everybody is smashing into each other and batling. That's interference each and every time? Then why have I pretty much never seen it called as interference?

The rulebook says that defensemen can't "get in the way" of opposing players? Where?

It was in the offensive end, and no the d man can’t go hit the guy pursuing the puck carrier.

Yes, the NHL decided to manufacture a result and arbitrarily ignore one, but that doesn't change the fact that both teams scored 2 goals.

I literally just said that one could use an expanded sample to prefer somebody like McDavid, but there's certainly an argument for Matthews, even with an expanded sample. Either way, he's up there with the best of the best, and had the best season this year.

Interference that creates or prevents a scoring chance should be called. Unfortunately, actual interference that created or prevented a scoring chance was often ignored throughout this series, and unfortunately, a play that wasn't interference and didn't create or prevent a scoring chance was called in this game 7 and decided the series.

Warmups aren't part of the game.

OK I thought you referring to the Holl Tavares play.

 

[PromisedLand]

Enough complaining about the refs. This team lacks killer instinct.

Get back out there and score a f***ing goal after a bad call.

I guess the silver lining is that bolts won't have the ligtning shaped logo shining bring on CN Tower

right?



because of "respect" apparently....

 

[Canadian Finn]

I just watched again. Leafs are as good and maybe even better than the lightning.

No question they controlled the play and chances.

Toronto is as good as a potential dynasty team now.

I wish we were able to have signatures around here.

this would definitely be mine.

 

[keonsbitterness]

Leafs fan coming to the Leafs board posting in peace.

blahblahblahblahblahblah.......

 

[Apotheosis]

I just watched again. Leafs are as good and maybe even better than the lightning.

No question they controlled the play and chances.

Toronto is as good as a potential dynasty team now.

But the old wounds make it hard to see light at the end of the tunnel. Would it have been better to miss a few early times?

Really not sure what to do. Even Campbell looked good.

I’m guessing they drop. Holl. Kerfoot. Miky.

Keep

Bunting. Matty. Marner
Xxxxxxx. JT. Nylander
Engvall. Kampf. Xxxxxxxx
Spezza. Steeves. Simmonds

Rielly. Brodie
Muzz. Sandin.
Gio. Lilly.

I have no idea what the team needs. They are good enough to win. You can see it.

I would go for trots. TBH.

They clearly aren't good enough to win. Sorry, not sorry.

 

[Dekes For Days]

The only year where Matthews and McDavid can be compared are in 2021-2022

This is not true, of course, and 2021-2022 happened, but again, completely besides the point anyway.

 

[Legion34]

I wish we were able to have signatures around here.

this would definitely be mine.

To be clear. Tampa is a potential dynasty. Not Toronto. If Tampa wins 3 in a row that is a dynasty by definition.


Toronto is every bit as good as them in this series.

The last 3 Tampa goals were clear penalties right before.

Point runs into gio knocks him over and scores
The huge hold on the Paul 1st goal is a 2 on 1
Muzz stick gets ripped out of his hand on the second

That’s not counting the phantom high stick.

None of this is to say that Toronto would have won. Who knows how the rest of the games play out in magical land.

But to pretend they are not on tampas level would just be lying

They clearly aren't good enough to win. Sorry, not sorry.

That’s the crazy part about it. I don’t even know what they could have done differently.

 

[Lightsol]

Yup, the guy they can't keep did it and their key guy they bought with kings ransom was not to be seen. Irony.

We have been talking about retooling and rebuild. Way our stars play, we might have to really think about trading those pieces away. The narrative around them isn't right, but we have to assess and have to make some changes. We don't have that gear which Tampa had in 2nd and 3rd period. I think that is on coach.

I can't way for the "SIGN NICK PAUL" posts to start showing up here like the "SIGN DANAULT" posts did last year...

Enough complaining about the refs. This team lacks killer instinct.

Get back out there and score a f***ing goal after a bad call.

They DID get back out there and score a f***ing goal after a bad call. Then Tampa got another one on an even more blatant non-call. Then on the power play Nylander gets blatantly tripped and the refs ignore it, because "No 5-on-3 in a deciding game", even though they had no problem doing it the game before...

 

[Apotheosis]

To be clear. Tampa is a potential dynasty. Not Toronto. If Tampa wins 3 in a row that is a dynasty by definition.


Toronto is every bit as good as them in this series.

The last 3 Tampa goals were clear penalties right before.

Point runs into gio knocks him over and scores
The huge hold on the Paul 1st goal is a 2 on 1
Muzz stick gets ripped out of his hand on the second

That’s not counting the phantom high stick.

None of this is to say that Toronto would have won. Who knows how the rest of the games play out in magical land.

But to pretend they are not on tampas level would just be lying



That’s the crazy part about it. I don’t even know what they could have done differently.

I won't lament the fact that the team was poorly constructed from the get-go but the biggest problem I saw all series was no single adaptation (minus game 5) for changing the PP around. The Bolts were laughing at the fact that Rielly was QBing the PP. He has no shot so they just collapsed low on the shooters and in front of the net and the PP became a non-factor.

 

[goodgrimes]

Is it possible at this point that the market itself is part of the problem? Like, is the pressure of Leafs Nation too much on the players? Is the media circus a distraction? Does the Leafs franchise itself need to be radically reformed? I can't help but think that this issue goes way beyond the roster, the coach, or even the management.

 

[Legion34]

I won't lament the fact that the team was poorly constructed from the get-go but the biggest problem I saw all series was no single adaptation (minus game 5) for changing the PP around. The Bolts were laughing at the fact that Rielly was QBing the PP. He has no shot so they just collapsed low on the shooters and in front of the net and the PP became a non-factor.

I agree with this. I think he is a great PMD but the lack of shot is nuts. The gio switch should have stayed.

 

[mjlee]

Totally neutral fan here. If you watch most of the championship teams they have that elusive #1 minute crunching D man (Hedman, Doughty, Chara, Keith) and/or selke forwards (ROR, Kopitar). If this had been the 1980's Toronto could have probably have been there with the best. But the adage, defense wins SC is very true. Reilly imo is just not good enough.

Right now the team is top heavy and lacks the kind of sandpaper most winners have. Willy will probably be traded since he, considering his contract, will bring back the most. But if would be futile to get back picks since by the time they're ready for the show, Matthew, Marner etc will have peaked. It's interesting that Willy's best playing happens when Matthew/Marner are out or cold. He needs a captain like Sakic or Yzerman and a coach that don't jerk him around. Willy reminds me a bit of Kent 'Magic Man' Nilsson who was one of the best players ever but could also disappear at times. Kent Nilsson: The Calgary Flames Superstar Who Chose Not To Be - Last Word On Hockey

I don't think the Leafs are cursed or choke or whatever. What you need is a more balanced team, without a few superstar players taking up so much cap, especially Tavares. Stamkos has never really excelled in the PO but Tampa hasn't needed to rely on him the way Toronto has with Matthew and Marner or Nylander.

You've got a great regular season team, but you need those last pieces to go on a deep run.

 

[Canadian Finn]

Is it possible at this point that the market itself is part of the problem? Like, is the pressure of Leafs Nation too much on the players? Is the media circus a distraction? Does the Leafs franchise itself need to be radically reformed? I can't help but think that this issue goes way beyond the roster, the coach, or even the management.

yes, the pressure of leafs nation is too much.

kids just need a break from that pressure.

maybe a week or two at the cottage will help.

 

[Mess]

Just look at Point's OT goal in Game 6 and look at what Holl is doing. The dubas and keefe fans do not call that out either. Leafs down a goal and Holl giving up possession of the puck by making stupid plays not a peep out of dubas fans.

it just goes on to show where these peoples' loyalties lie. It is not with teh maple leaf logo thats for sure

Holl should be in Seattle and not protected in the expansion draft, and/or safely in pressbox with Liljegren playing instead.

If Leafs management made better personnel decision, then Holl wouldn't have been dressed so that play in dispute never could have happened, nor the Point OT winner the game earlier, while Holl leaves him all alone in front of the net right where he should have been standing to block him out. The Point goal in OT is where Holl should be clearing out a TB forward not in the offensive zone



Karma can be a biatch and Holl not the Refs should be blamed for both the goals in question here that contributed to Leafs series loss, as he gave them one in game #6 and took one away from Leafs in game #7. IMO

PS. The Refs at times in the series had their issues with consistency but that is another topic with both missed calls and questionable ones, but not on the plays in discussion here.

 

[Apotheosis]

Totally neutral fan here. If you watch most of the championship teams they have that elusive #1 minute crunching D man (Hedman, Doughty, Chara, Keith) and/or selke forwards (ROR, Kopitar). If this had been the 1980's Toronto could have probably have been there with the best. But the adage, defense wins SC is very true. Reilly imo is just not good enough.

Right now the team is top heavy and lacks the kind of sandpaper most winners have. Willy will probably be traded since he, considering his contract, will bring back the most. But if would be futile to get back picks since by the time they're ready for the show, Matthew, Marner etc will have peaked. It's interesting that Willy's best playing happens when Matthew/Marner are out or cold. He needs a captain like Sakic or Yzerman and a coach that don't jerk him around. Willy reminds me a bit of Kent 'Magic Man' Nilsson who was one of the best players ever but could also disappear at times. Kent Nilsson: The Calgary Flames Superstar Who Chose Not To Be - Last Word On Hockey

I don't think the Leafs are cursed or choke or whatever. What you need is a more balanced team, without a few superstar players taking up so much cap, especially Tavares. Stamkos has never really excelled in the PO but Tampa hasn't needed to rely on him the way Toronto has with Matthew and Marner or Nylander.

You've got a great regular season team, but you need those last pieces to go on a deep run.

This is why the early success in year 1 of the Matthews-Marner-Nylander days was the worst thing to happen to this team. It made the management think they were very far ahead so they waste cap on Tavares AND one more year in 2017 of being in the basement could have netted them Makar or Heiskanen which would have paid dividends. Imagine if, instead of the current team we have this:

Bunting - Matthews - Marner
Kerfoot - Kadri - Nylander

Brodie - Makar/Heiskanen
Rielly - Muzzin

Much much much better balance and Kadri is a known pest who elevates it in the playoffs and his contract being much better than JT's would given the team more space to add depth D/bottom 6 help/goalie cap.