Post-Game Talk: Leafs Lose in Game 7. Again.

[PromisedLand]

Scanning today's sports obituaries for the Leafs, the team is almost universally being praised for losing. That's what happens when the team's owners also own the press - literally. It's exactly the same as daily legacy news where the owner dictates the consistently fictional narrative.

I used to love listening to talk radio immediately after Leaf games because in Ontario there were at least two phone-in shows for the fans to commiserate/share/praise/vent. Now there are none, none allowed to exist.

Loser mentality from top to bottom. Absolutely pathetic!

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Are you sure you're not getting your OZone and DZone confused here?

Leafs Dman can't take out a player without the puck in the Offensive Zone.

Anthony Cirelli has defensive zone coverage on Tavares his man riding on his inside hip forcing JT to the outside, until Holl comes in from the point and picks off Cirelli without the puck, creating a clear path the slot and HDSC for Tavares. That is an easy and classic interference call often referred to as a pick play. The Refs hand went up immediately and the whistle blew before Tavares even shot the puck.

Definition : A pick play "Is an illegal maneuver in which a player intentionally makes contact with a defender in order to slow the defender's progress, and allow a teammate to get open for a pass or create a scoring chance."

I mean... I've seen players bump into our defensemen on... well... pretty much every time we're in the defensive zone. Look at players battling in front of the net and pushing the shit out of each other. That's interference? I'm trying, but I really don't see the distinction.

 

[hamzarocks]

Yes they did. Its called a disallowed GOAL for a reason...

It was a goal... that was disallowed... both teams scored 2 goals.

how is this an argument? christ.

Both teams didn't score 2 goals when one is disallowed

If a goal is disallowed it means it doesn't count and isn't part of the games events. If you check the scoring summary do you see the 2nd goal show up?

Is it an event on the game log?

Your pretending a disallowed goal counted for some reason?

3 goals were scored in the game, 2 for Tampa and 1 for the leafs

 

[ismelofhockey]

It wasn't a disallowed goal. The refs hand was already up (for reasons I'll never understand),

That was clearly a pick.

From the rulebook, interference is:
- Providing a protective screen and limiting the opportunity for an opposing player to apply pressure to a teammate in possession and control of the puck.
- An attacking player who no longer has possession or control of the puck initiates contact with the defending player in an effort to obstruct their ability to play the puck or an opponent.

You probably have a case that interference is called inconsistently. Welcome to the NHL, where inconsistent happens to be the middle name of every single ref.


I won't even bother with the other Leafs fans who have suddenly forgotten what a goal is and isn't.

 

[PromisedLand]

Steven Stamkos said that the Leafs have a Stanley Cup team. He said it was basically too close to call between the two teams, and that it just happened that the Lightning were dreaming as big as the Leafs. While I am sure it is disappointing from the perspective of Leaf fans. I wouldn't jump the gun on dismantling this team, or trading any major assets.

Here is what a professional that hates to lose has as an attitude:

MacKinnon: I'm going into my 9th year and 'I haven't won shit'

Nathan MacKinnon lamented another early exit by his Colorado Avalanche following their 6-3 loss to the Vegas Golden Knights in Game 6 of their second-round series Thursday night. Nathan MacKinnon's Game 6 post-game press conference was something. "I'm going into my ninth year next year and...

www.thescore.com

No participation trophy BS

 

[hamzarocks]

Yes, the NHL decided to manufacture a result and arbitrarily ignore one, but that doesn't change the fact that both teams scored 2 goals.

I literally just said that one could use an expanded sample to prefer somebody like McDavid, but there's certainly an argument for Matthews, even with an expanded sample. Either way, he's up there with the best of the best, and had the best season this year.

Interference that creates or prevents a scoring chance should be called. Unfortunately, actual interference that created or prevented a scoring chance was often ignored throughout this series, and unfortunately, a play that wasn't interference and didn't create or prevent a scoring chance was called in this game 7 and decided the series.

Warmups aren't part of the game.

The NHL didn't manufacture a call. If it were the other way you would not be saying this so cut the excuses.

There is no argument for Matthews over McDavid beyond 2022.

You do trophy case, all NHL teams, PPG, points, and McDavid is better across the board

McDavid is trending to be the 3rd best offensive player ever with a shot at 1st if he keeps racking up the awards.

Matthews is tracking to be the best or 2nd best goal scorer behind OV.

Matthews has been way to underwhelming as an offensive producer his first 5 years in comparison to McDavid to be considered comparable

No shame as McDavid is likely to be the 3rd-5th greatest player all time.

Matthews season right now is like H.Sedin had vs Prime OV/Sid.

He needs to show he's that level for a few more years before he's seriously considered comparable to 97

 

[Throw More Waffles]

I'd have to recount but I think in deciding games:
Mathews now as 3 points, and marner has 2.
Nylander IIRC has 3.

I did only "winner takes all" games.

Zero points in game 7 first Boston series. Zero points in game 7 of second Boston series. Zero points in Columbus game 5. One assist game 7 vs Montreal (1 minute left in 3rd down 3-0, lol). One assist game 7 vs Tampa.

It's long been in the "embarrassing" territory.

 

[Fabiobest]

Good evening guys,
I'm a Bolts fan coming here in peace. I wanted to write these few lines to express my congratulations to your team and your players. Personally, I agree with Hedman when he said it was a really close series. Also the stats show that: 24 goals for TOR and 23 for TB...216 shots for TOR and 215 for TB. So, it was a matter of details, the ones that allowed us to win this contest.
I think TOR played an hell of a series. I can understand your frustration and your bad statements on the players, but I don't agree with the fact TOR choked again. This series, for the Maple Leafs, was really different from the CBJ and the MTL ones I think. You were good enough to shut down guys like Kucherov and Point (both of them played a quite bad series imo). Also Campbell, except maybe in G7, was better than the “below average Vasy”.
A couple of points, again.​

1. You are hockey fans first of all so you surely remember what both the same Bolts fans and the media said about Kucherov, Stamkos and Hedman before the 2020 run. “They're not playoffs performers”...”They po* in their pants when it counts”...”Tampa Bay Chokers”...”The San José Sharks of the East” and so on. Then, after the CBJ nightmare, something changed. Both mentally and in the roster. I don't know if trade Nylander, for example, is the right move (I think it is but who really knows...to be honest I'd trade him asap). I only know that acquire a couple of guys that won the cup before would be huge. It's not a case TB destiny changed when we acquired Pat Maroon. I think it's an interesting point the organization should take into consideration.​
2. I saw the video of a 4-5 fans fighting each others at the end of the game. I think they DO NOT represent your entire community and so the “fans” trolling under Bolts pages on Twitter either. Why did I say that? Easy answer: I've been in Toronto to watch both an hockey and a baskeball game. October 2016, I was there, at Air Canada Center, to Watch Lightning @ Maple Leafs, 3 months after Auston got drafted. And the atmosphere in your building and outside the arena WAS AMAZING. I really loved the moments I spent there and all around the city and the region I could have felt the passion and the love for our fav sport. But, as you can easily say, every team has some as* in his community...so move on and that's it​
3. I wrote about the players...a mention also for your head coach. You cannot even imagine how many “Fire Cooper” I read after the CBJ sweep. So, does Keefe deserve to stay? Maybe no, but first of all, if you want to build something important, you need to have a strong and good organization. Are Dubas and Shanahan the right men in the right place? I don't think so. Trotz would be a uge improvement, that's for sure, but before that, the ownership should answer a couple of question about the Maple Leafs board.​

Said all of that, I want to renew my congrats to you and your team for the amazing series both TOR and TB have played. See u next season.

Take care you all!!​

 

[BTP]

Both teams didn't score 2 goals when one is disallowed

If a goal is disallowed it means it doesn't count and isn't part of the games events. If you check the scoring summary do you see the 2nd goal show up?

Is it an event on the game log?

Your pretending a disallowed goal counted for some reason?

3 goals were scored in the game, 2 for Tampa and 1 for the leafs

Thats like saying having your name removed from the Cup after winning it means you never won the cup. Or having a championship taken away after the fact means you never won it. You won the Cup, but your name was removed. You won the chip, but it was taken away. You still won. It was taken away afterwards. Its the same thing here. A goal was scored that was then taken away due to legality.. Doesn't change the fact that JT scored, we celebrated, and then the goal was taken away... Disallowed *goal*

 

[killer1980]

I really hate the Tavares hate. He was one of the few that gave his all during these playoffs. The fact that Dubas signed him and then inexplicably decided to build a speed team is not JT's fault. Tavares would be much better suited on a team like the Bruins or Blues. You cannot blame JT for lack of effort or determination. Sadly, the same cannot be said of much of the rest of the team.

 

[Gabriel426]

That’s also what happens when you develope such a long loser mentality.
the bar is so low that people are willing to accept yet another loss

Well would you rather them say, we choke again, or it is the fans fault for putting too much pressure on them…

 

[Stonehands 1]

I'll still be cheering for the Leafs, they put it all on the line, Go Leafs Go!!!!!

 

[Throw More Waffles]

That was clearly a pick.

From the rulebook, interference is:
- Providing a protective screen and limiting the opportunity for an opposing player to apply pressure to a teammate in possession and control of the puck.
- An attacking player who no longer has possession or control of the puck initiates contact with the defending player in an effort to obstruct their ability to play the puck or an opponent.

You probably have a case that interference is called inconsistently. Welcome to the NHL, where inconsistency happens to be the middle name of every single ref.


I won't even bother with the other Leafs fans who have suddenly forgotten what a goal is and isn't.

According to that definition, every battle in front of the net is the offensive player interfering with the defensive player. Which happens, quite literally, every single solitary time there is possession in the offensive zone.

That's not mere "inconsistency". That's a rule that exists in only 2 places. 1. On paper. 2. Regarding Justin Holl.

 

[hamzarocks]

Thats like saying having your name removed from the Cup after winning it means you never won the cup. Or having a championship taken away after the fact means you never won it. You won the Cup, but your name was removed. You won the chip, but it was taken away. You still won. It was taken away afterwards. Its the same thing here. A goal was scored that was then taken away due to legality.. Doesn't change the fact that JT scored, we celebrated, and then the goal was taken away... Disallowed *goal*

The goal was taken off from before the shot went in. The whistle was called before the puck was in and the refs hand was up.

Pretending the goal went in and the refs disallowed the goal for no reason is just ignoring reality

 

[PromisedLand]

NHL doesn't count illegal goals scored, on delayed penalty calls for interference on a clear pick play, where the Refs arm was up well before the goal was scored.



Watch the Refs arm go up at centre ice well before Tavares even shoots the puck, and notice nobody on the Leafs bench including Keefe nor Tavares argues the call. You can even hear the whistle go prior.

Pretending it counts is all you, and nobody else.

The moment Holl ran that pick I knew that was interference; I was just hoping refs didn't see it. That was the right call.

 

[ismelofhockey]

According to that definition, every battle in front of the net is the offensive player interfering with the defensive player. Which happens, quite literally, every single solitary time there is possession in the offensive zone.

That's not mere "inconsistency". That's a rule that exists in only 2 places. 1. On paper. 2. Regarding Justin Holl.

It isn't. The difference is that Holl wasn't battling with Cirelli for positioning. Cirelli was battling Tavares, and then Holl came and prevented him from covering his man. It is not a situation that happens all that often, and it is often called.

 

[KPower]

Was checking playoff stats, got a chuckle out of this View attachment 547391

did you see his face when Campbell got hurt last night? Absolutely shitting his pants. Lol

 

[Niagara Bill]

I word again! FORE

 

[cannucky]

Well said. Great post.

So if YOU were Dubas, what would you do?

P.S. I've said I'd move Matthews - you'd get a mint in return and I believe he'll be gone in 2 years.

I've been saying that since his draft day unfortunately the team that we should have dealt him too all along now no longer has anyone worth dealing him for . His NMC kicks in after next season but his actual cost drops to 7.95 this year so now is the do or die trade time . Arizona had two guys I would have expected in any package plus Chychrun and maybe Fischer or Crouse but Dvorak was the 2/3 center that was a must in the package . Something like Dvorak , Chychrun plus one of Keller , Garland , Crouse or Fisher and a mid first rounder for the next face of the franchise would have been good for both teams . Compare what they got for Dvorak and Garland and they would have been better off than today and we would have shed salary for a top 4 young D under contract plus a legit 2/3 center a solid mid six forward and a first . They now only really have Chychrun , the first plus a third line winger . We are about to get hosed hard now if we try to move him and the best we can hope for with JT or Nylander is that somebody Tanya Hardings one or both of them because we won't get much for NYlander and nobody is taking JT's contract and rapidy diminishing play .

 

[Strangle]

We all would love the refs to have to answer questions. Taking a look at how corrupt reffing is in other leagues, we absolutely know that there is some bullshit going on.

Not blaming the refs for this, just saying. They are corrupt in the NHL too

 

[BTP]

The moment Holl ran that pick I knew that was interference; I was just hoping refs didn't see it. That was the right call.

Sure. The issue comes in consistency. They let EVERYthing else go all game.. hell, all series. And you decide to call that minor shit in a Game 7 in a pivitol moment in a home crowd. Outrageous.

 

[PromisedLand]

Tough to ice strong 3rd and 4th lines when the first two lines make up all the salary cap.

2 more years of matthews and nylander before them hitting UFA with a declining Tavares.

Can't make this shit up.

Dubas will go down as the worst GM ever to hold that position not just in hockey but in any major north american sport. It is baffling how much he has screwed the pooch.

He has done so little with so much.

- plenty of cap space
- plenty of assets
- team coming off one of the best seasons in franchise history with rookies on the team to boot just couple years out of rebuild

he has ruined all of that so fast it is baffling when you sit back and look at what dubas was given and what he has done.


more than dubas it is shanahan who should be criticized. Shanahan is the one that green lit this trash.

 

[Gallagbi]

That was clearly a pick.

From the rulebook, interference is:
- Providing a protective screen and limiting the opportunity for an opposing player to apply pressure to a teammate in possession and control of the puck.
- An attacking player who no longer has possession or control of the puck initiates contact with the defending player in an effort to obstruct their ability to play the puck or an opponent.

You probably have a case that interference is called inconsistently. Welcome to the NHL, where inconsistent happens to be the middle name of every single ref.


I won't even bother with the other Leafs fans who have suddenly forgotten what a goal is and isn't.

Was nice of them to ignore the Killorn play causing the game since though. Not to mention the phantom 5on3 in game 6

It isn't. The difference is that Holl wasn't battling with Cirelli for positioning. Cirelli was battling Tavares, and then Holl came and prevented him from covering his man. It is not a situation that happens all that often, and it is often called.

There were 4-5 more blatant interference cans in the alone. Bogo in particular.

Holl has a logical rotation and doesn't alter course to get in the lane.

 

[PromisedLand]

Sure. The issue comes in consistency. They let EVERYthing else go all game.. hell, all series. And you decide to call that minor shit in a Game 7 in a pivitol moment in a home crowd. Outrageous.

I had issues with reffing in Game 6. I think Game 7 was called fairly. The ref had his arm up before JT even turned. Its not like penalty was called after he scored the goal.

 

[cannucky]

you suggested trading Tavares, because we need a deeper team.

The problem with that is that trading Tavares doesn't make the team deeper it would creat a giant hole at #2 center.

therefore trading Tavares even if he were willing to go does nothing

If JT could be traded you are assuming we wouldn't hockey trade him for a center that could replace his rapidly diminishing game . Thats some pretty flawed logic right there , for example if we got Jacob Chychrun at 4.6 for him our defence would be instantlly better and deeper and if we used the 6.4 in saving to sign Kadri at something less than 6.4 then we would have a better #2 center and a better D corps giving us both a better starting roster and depth by pushing most of our current starting Dmen 1 rung down the depth chart .