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Post-Game Talk: Leafs Lose In Columbus

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Racer88 said:
He thinks he has a contender
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Agreed. Dubas can continue his creative dumpster diving to excite the personal support network here, but unless he swaps a big-four contract for a couple of nasty D-men... well, that ain't going to happen, is it.
 
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The best take away I have from this game is that Justin Holl was a healthy scratch, despite Muzzin missing the game to injury and Sandin was back in.

This told me at the coach was in tune with what is currently happening, and realized he messed up the night early against Montreal with his lineup decision.

Keefe making Holl the #7 in the rotation was verification of his poor play lately despite some push back from fans that all was fine, that probably weren't watching the game only posting the spreadsheet stats. However him being sheltered in the 3rd pairing still didn't mask his play even against easier QofC and earned himself a well deserved viewing from the pressbox.

Now Lyubushkin made a poor pinching decision on the 3rd goal against, then got flat footed and CBJ speed of Brendan Gaunce gave him a clear breakaway on the play, but had Holl been there I think the outcome would have been the same as foot speed with him is always a concern as well when he pinches. So first impression of the new guy is he is at least as good as Holl. IMO
 
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Mess said:
The best take away I have from this game is that Justin Holl was a healthy scratch, despite Muzzin missing the game to injury and Sandin was back in.

This told me at the coach was in tune with what is currently happening, and realized he messed up the night early against Montreal with his lineup decision.

Keefe making Holl the #7 in the rotation was verification of his poor play lately despite some push back from fans that all was fine, that probably weren't watching the game only posting the spreadsheet stats. However him being sheltered in the 3rd pairing still didn't mask his play even against easier QofC and earned himself a well deserved viewing from the pressbox.

Now Lyubushkin made a poor pinching decision on the 3rd goal against, then got flat footed and CBJ speed of Brendan Gaunce gave him a clear breakaway on the play, but had Holl been there I think the outcome would have been the same as foot speed with him is always a concern as well when he pinches. So first impression of the new guy is he is at least as good as Holl. IMO
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There seems to be a disconnect if Holl is seen as a top 4 defenseman, some feel best on the team, and the coach sees him as a healthy scratch/bottom pair player.
 
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ACC1224 said:
There seems to be a disconnect if Holl is seen as a top 4 defenseman, some feel best on the team, and the coach sees him as a healthy scratch/bottom pair player.
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The disconnect seems to between fantasy & expected stats and then reality and actual results . :wg:

Perhaps even the GM was paying attention and not only the coach when he acquired RHD Lyubushkin in an attempt to improve on Holl, and permanently drop him down the pecking order, while testing him on the 2nd pairing as a replacement potentially.

When watching the games, decision making by management seems to be trending in the right direction as one would expect based on the results and evaluating the player performances. Sooner rather then later Holl's disappointing play this year was going to be addressed. IMO
 
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Throw More Waffles said:
The point couldn't be any clearer. Save the overreactions for games that actually matter.

If the leafs lose in the first round again, and all they do is fire all management and trade every player, then I'd consider that an UNDER-reaction. That's a 1 out of 10 of what I think the overall reaction should be to another first round loss.
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It's a a ridiculous point and it's preposterously unrealistic for a team to trade EVERY player right after a playoff loss. When has that ever happened?
 
Racer88 said:
It all depends on how at risk his job is if the crap out 1st round for the 6th year in a row
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It shouldn't be rocket science, where have our best players come from? The draft, why all of a sudden we went draft shmaft again is really mind blowing.
 
theTTC said:
Agreed. Dubas can continue his creative dumpster diving to excite the personal support network here, but unless he swaps a big-four contract for a couple of nasty D-men... well, that ain't going to happen, is it.
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Agree……I high end Dman and a real number 1 goalie would be my wish list
 
ACC1224 said:
There seems to be a disconnect if Holl is seen as a top 4 defenseman, some feel best on the team, and the coach sees him as a healthy scratch/bottom pair player.
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Holl seems to be at the fulcrum of a lot of analytics vs eye test debates, cap allocation and team construction and discussions about the player seem to turn into referendums on these ideas and even opinions on the GM. I think that needs to be uncoupled and de-escalated. Sometimes a struggling defenseman is just a struggling defenseman. The team doesn’t seem to be happy with him.
 
Confucius said:
Funny we have some in the lineup and paast picks we could have had would be playing today. When you don't pick them, true they will never play.
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Not really sure what you're on about. Picks in future drafts can only help the team today by being shopped.
Are you saying put everything on hold make some picks and hope they help later?

Leafs have tons of drafted players in the organization that aren't playing today
 
Stephen said:
Holl seems to be at the fulcrum of a lot of analytics vs eye test debates, cap allocation and team construction and discussions about the player seem to turn into referendums on these ideas and even opinions on the GM. I think that needs to be uncoupled and de-escalated. Sometimes a struggling defenseman is just a struggling defenseman. The team doesn’t seem to be happy with him.
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That seems correct.
 
ACC1224 said:
Not really sure what you're on about. Picks in future drafts can only help the team today by being shopped.
Are you saying put everything on hold make some picks and hope they help later?

Leafs have tons of drafted players in the organization that aren't playing today
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Ho0w many 1st rounders do we have that aren't playing. How many do we have that are? 1st rounders should never be dealt unless for a severe overpayment. 1st rounder for a rental when you are not even the Cup favourite is moronic. That's what I'm on about.
 
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Confucius said:
It shouldn't be rocket science, where have our best players come from? The draft, why all of a sudden we went draft shmaft again is really mind blowing.
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Problem is we didn't get much from older drafts other than the first round, and most of our recent prospects are at least a year or two away from being contributors.
 
Confucius said:
Ho0w many 1st rounders do we have that aren't playing. How many do we have that are? 1st rounders should never be dealt unless for a severe overpayment. 1st rounder for a rental when you are not even the Cup favourite is moronic. That's what I'm on about.
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+1

Trading 1st rounders for rentals should be 100% off the table at this point. That is all.
 
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Confucius said:
Ho0w many 1st rounders do we have that aren't playing. How many do we have that are? 1st rounders should never be dealt unless for a severe overpayment. 1st rounder for a rental when you are not even the Cup favourite is moronic. That's what I'm on about.
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Such is life when you're trying to win. Bad trades are always 'moronic', whether they are for rentals or not.
 
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keonsbitterness said:
Problem is we didn't get much from older drafts other than the first round, and most of our recent prospects are at least a year or two away from being contributors.
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Well at least you point oput our 1st rounders are important pieces that more often than not contribute in a big way. If you don't pick in the later rounds you have zero chance finding a keeper.
 
GrizzGreen said:
Chicken little sky is falling roleplaying fans

The Leafs are fine, calm down.
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there is only a few LeaFlanders in this thread firing everyone and trading all the others and accusing players of the sacking of Carthage

most of the other's seem relatively sane and in control of their emotions
 
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Stephen said:
Holl seems to be at the fulcrum of a lot of analytics vs eye test debates, cap allocation and team construction and discussions about the player seem to turn into referendums on these ideas and even opinions on the GM. I think that needs to be uncoupled and de-escalated. Sometimes a struggling defenseman is just a struggling defenseman. The team doesn’t seem to be happy with him.
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its not even analytics.

most anti-analytics people love, say, plus/minus, and Holl looks good there too. and the fact is both his analytics and surface numbers sucked early in the year, but both have been very good lately.

and of course, some people also think that playing on the top tough usage pairing on one of the better defensive teams in the league is prettty good, especially when your partner isn't playing very well.

Then again, most of us who think Holl is good also like all the other dmen and don't mind if some of the other guys get a chance in his spot, either.
 
ACC1224 said:
There seems to be a disconnect if Holl is seen as a top 4 defenseman, some feel best on the team, and the coach sees him as a healthy scratch/bottom pair player.
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I think Holl was sat for a maintenance(whatever happened in Mtl.) and rest day, and also to see if the "kids" could rise to the occasion! Lil and Sandy just get passing grades, Dermott does not as far as I'm concerned and I really like the kid if he doesn't smarten up he needs to be moved.

As far as the Bear is concerned I didn't see anything to overly dislike, some stuff to like and generally I'd give a favourable review on almost all shifts.

The real Jake Muzzin has been missing all year

Can Rubins play with the big boy's, how about Kral, Dahlstrom possibly, Kivihalme, Biega, Mennel and what about Joe Duszak too small to cut it?
 
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