Post-Game Talk: Leafs lose- due for one of these but Jack man

[Niagara Bill]

Ottawa has 5/6 points against the Hurricanes this year. Should they start panicking? How about the 6-0 loss to Columbus or the 7-3 loss to the Devils? ....the loss to the Canucks, the loss to the Kraken.....Built for the playoffs?

I think they are a great team and a cup favorite myself. Great teams are going to lose games though.

Goaltending is a bit of a worry I guess but I'm not that outraged when, in our only 3 regulation losses since Dec. 10th, we have outshot the opposition 132 - 70 , all on the road.

The most troubling point is in the response to Kase hit. Tip of the hat to Reilly, but he was out of his league, and so was the rest of the team physically. If that hit is on Marner or AM, season is over. We do not have a dman capable of that violence.

 

[ToneDog]

The most troubling point is in the response to Kase hit. Tip of the hat to Reilly, but he was out of his league, and so was the rest of the team physically. If that hit is on Marner or AM, season is over. We do not have a dman capable of that violence.

Some hate Chara but he'd probably cost us virtually nothing and players would think twice before making that hit. As it stood on Thursday, every Flames rat played a foot taller knowing nobody would make them accountable. Baklund was one of the worst offenders.

 

[ACC1224]

Some hate Chara but he'd probably cost us virtually nothing and players would think twice before making that hit. As it stood on Thursday, every Flames rat played a foot taller knowing nobody would make them accountable. Baklund was one of the worst offenders.

Yeah you really have to wonder what Keefe was thinking with that lineup choice.

 

[Mess]

Yeah you really have to wonder what Keefe was thinking with that lineup choice.

Leafs had a full healthy roster for the first time all year so every player was available to dress as a option.

The confusing part of the situation is that Keefe went with 11 forwards and 7 Dmen, which then almost intentionally meant he left that 12 forward a player with pushback out of the line-up on purpose, like he doesn't understand and know the Flames under Sutter play and big physical, heavy style game.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Leafs had a full healthy roster for the first time all year so every player was available to dress as a option.
The confusing part of the situation is that Keefe went with 11 forwards and 7 Dmen, which then almost intentionally meant he left that 12 forward a player with pushback out of the line-up on purpose, like he doesn't understand and know the Flames under Sutter play and big physical, heavy style game.

It's not confusing at all. Simmonds just had a kid, so he stayed in Toronto.

 

[Mess]

Coach Sutter must have loved Keefe's roster choices as Flames played a tough game the night before against Vegas their Div leader, and then on a back to back, got to face a skating team with no pushback ability physically.

What if that was Mitch Marner or Willy Nylander that Zadorov had unloaded on instead of Kase? (not that I'm implying its any better) but to rather suggest Leafs lineup for this game, didn't have anyone dressed that would have prevented any Flame from thinking twice about taking liberties with Leafs players.

That falls on the coach for bringing a knife to gun fight and his players paid a price and lost the game as a result, and a little more worse for wear as a result.

 

[Gallagbi]

Coach Sutter must have loved Keefe's roster choices as Flames played a tough game the night before against Vegas their Div leader, and then on a back to back, got to face a skating team with no pushback ability physically.

What if that was Mitch Marner or Willy Nylander that Zadorov had unloaded on instead of Kase? (not that I'm implying its any better) but to rather suggest Leafs lineup for this game, didn't have anyone dressed that would have prevented any Flame from thinking twice about taking liberties with Leafs players.

That falls on the coach for bringing a knife to gun fight and his players paid a price and lost the game as a result, and a little more worse for wear as a result.

The big issue in the game was that our goalie couldn't save a beach ball

 

[Mess]

It's not confusing at all. Simmonds just had a kid, so he stayed in Toronto.

Were Kyle Clifford and Nick Ritchie on babysitting duty, so they couldn't travel with the team and fill in for Simmonds?

Both players could have been dressed for this game and a player like Engvall left home to babysit if needed.

Zadorov wouldn't have left that game with a big grin on his face had Leafs 4th line been Ritchie -- Spezza -- Clifford, and may have even thought twice about throwing that hit if he expected to be picking his missing teeth off the ice as payback came calling.

So its not as if Keefe didn't have options available, he simply chose to allow his team to be abused physically without recourse and also lost the game in the process.

 

[Gallagbi]

Were Kyle Clifford and Nick Ritchie on babysitting duty, so they couldn't travel with the team and fill in for Simmonds?

Both players could have been dressed for this game and a player like Engvall left home to babysit if needed.

Zadorov wouldn't have left that game with a big grin on his face had Leafs 4th line been Ritchie -- Spezza -- Clifford, and may have even thought twice about throwing that hit if he expected to be picking his missing teeth off the ice as payback came calling.

...so was the whole team available or no? Because that was your point and the purpose of his response.

Also doesn't sound like you know Zadorov much if you think a fighter in the bench is preventing his hits, especially a mediocre fighter like Clifford

 

[therealkoho]

What an embarrassing affair. Campbell sucked ass, Leafs got beat up physically, and Button was awful to listen to.

Double whammy, Leafs losing and Button blathering.

 

[therealkoho]

That Zadorov hit was dirty imo. Not sure why Button and Onrait are saying it’s clean

Iunno man I played a long time and guys with their heads down looking at the puck are just asking for it. He's a Leaf and I sympathize but there was nothing dirty about that hit, Kase has to have his head up there is no place in an NHL arena that's "safe ice" carrying a puck with your head down.

 

[Raym11]

The best way to describe this game was - We were winning until they scored.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Were Kyle Clifford and Nick Ritchie on babysitting duty, so they couldn't travel with the team and fill in for Simmonds?
Both players could have been dressed for this game and a player like Engvall left home to babysit if needed.
Zadorov wouldn't have left that game with a big grin on his face had Leafs 4th line been Ritchie -- Spezza -- Clifford, and may have even thought twice about throwing that hit if he expected to be picking his missing teeth off the ice as payback came calling.
So its not as if Keefe didn't have options available, he simply chose to allow his team to be abused physically without recourse and also lost the game in the process.

You said that "every player was available to dress" and "he left that 12 forward a player with pushback out of the line-up on purpose". That is not true. Simmonds just had a kid, was in Toronto, and was not available to dress.

Since Simmonds was unavailable but not actually injured, he still counted against the cap, and with everybody else healthy, I don't believe we could afford to bring up a 1m+ 2nd extra like Ritchie or Clifford, let alone two. Regardless, Engvall has played far better this year than either Ritchie or Clifford (and is a pretty big guy too) and deserved that spot. We assign spots here based on merit - not who can punch a face better, and that doesn't equate to our coach "allowing his team to be abused physically without recourse".

Having Ritchie and/or Clifford in wouldn't have changed anything that happened. Zadorov doesn't ever think twice about throwing hits, and our players that were on the ice responded to the hit. Our issue was Campbell struggling, and Ritchie or Clifford wouldn't have changed that.

 

[ToneDog]

It's not confusing at all. Simmonds just had a kid, so he stayed in Toronto.

Guessing Clifford had something better to do that night ? There is no defense for stupid but let's hear what you got.

 

[therealkoho]

Other than the Kerfoot tip, which wasn't really all that well placed, I honestly can't think of one hard save Markstrom had to make.

Campbell had to stop breakaways, multiple odd man rushes, etc.

Did we have ONE odd man rush this game?

I read somewhere that Mitch was out shooting the first 2 Calgary PPs

 

[Dekes For Days]

Guessing Clifford had something better to do that night ? There is no defense for stupid but let's hear what you got.

See my post right above yours. I don't believe we could bring Clifford and his 1m cap hit up with Simmonds unavailable but still healthy, and everybody else on the team healthy, but either way, Clifford has been bad this year, and not even that physical anyway. He didn't deserve to play, and he wouldn't have changed anything.

 

[ToneDog]

You said that "every player was available to dress" and "he left that 12 forward a player with pushback out of the line-up on purpose". That is not true. Simmonds just had a kid, was in Toronto, and was not available to dress.

Since Simmonds was unavailable but not actually injured, he still counted against the cap, and with everybody else healthy, I don't believe we could afford to bring up a 1m+ 2nd extra like Ritchie or Clifford, let alone two. Regardless, Engvall has played far better this year than either Ritchie or Clifford (and is a pretty big guy too) and deserved that spot. We assign spots here based on merit - not who can punch a face better, and that doesn't equate to our coach "allowing his team to be abused physically without recourse".

Having Ritchie and/or Clifford in wouldn't have changed anything that happened. Zadorov doesn't ever think twice about throwing hits, and our players that were on the ice responded to the hit. Our issue was Campbell struggling, and Ritchie or Clifford wouldn't have changed that.

So why are we playing Simmonds ? Why did we sign Ritchie and claim Clifford off waivers ?? As far as I know, none are from the Soo.

 

[therealkoho]

This one's on Jack, obviously. Couple things bounce a bit differently and Leafs win. No help from the officials, but what else is new?
On to Vancouver.

Perfect summation

 

[Zybalto]

The most troubling point is in the response to Kase hit. Tip of the hat to Reilly, but he was out of his league, and so was the rest of the team physically. If that hit is on Marner or AM, season is over. We do not have a dman capable of that violence.

A guy wearing a letter instantly jumped the guy who threw the hit which was not egregious but had an unfortunate result. The response was fine. I don't think any of the Leafs stars are as unaware on the ice as Kase tends to be and would never get caught like that.

Muzzin (who has thrown his fair share of huge hits) putting Gaudreau down with the same hit wouldn't make anything different. The Leafs skated the Flames into the ground most of the game, just like they have done to most teams all season.

The officiating was pretty bad most of the game which was a bigger problem with one team throwing cheap shots and the other team getting penalized for chintzy plays but that happens once in a while.

3 regulation losses since Dec. 10th, we have outshot the opposition 132 - 70 , all on the road. The Leafs have even been impressive in losses this year. Thats the mark of a good team. Of course it would have been nice having Simmonds in the lineup last night or even Ritchie (if he can get his crap together) but the team didnt play poorly and for all the Flames aggression, most of it was ineffective and had little bearing on the outcome.

 

[therealkoho]

Reverse the goalies , leafs 10- 1 . Nobody is talking anymore .

You can say that all you like but it still doesn't make it true or possible, I suppose

 

[Gallagbi]

You can say that all you like but it still doesn't make it true or possible, I suppose

It's very true, but not possible. Just a short, easy way to summarize the game.

 

[Dekes For Days]

So why are we playing Simmonds ? Why did we sign Ritchie and claim Clifford off waivers ??

I don't really understand what you're asking. There's more to these players than an ability to throw a punch.

The idea that players "think twice" about making hits based on who is on the other side is not supported by really anything, and if anything, the higher emotional intensity that fighters promote tends to increase things like big hits, but even if you're somebody that does believe that the "think twice" thing is true, Zadorov has never been the type of player to ever think twice about a hit - or at least not one to change his mind on going full steam ahead.

We lost because of Campbell. The end. On to the next one. Hopefully Simmonds and his kid are doing great, and he can rejoin us soon.

 

[therealkoho]

Every opponent knows they can’t match the Leafs skill but they don’t respond well to physical tough checking hockey. This has been the way to beat the Leafs in the playoffs the last five years. Not sure that will change anytime soon.

Didn't they just play Carolina a few nights back?

 

[therealkoho]

What's with Nylander? Brutal on the 2nd goal, takes a lazy penalty which leads to the 3rd goal and then weak back check on the 4th goal. Hopefully that's it.

(Only caught the first last night, watching the end now Calgary just made it 4-1)

I was thinking that if Willie ever decides to be that brawny, highly skilled and dominating winger again, then JT will start looking like the best 2C in the east again and give the Leafs secondary scoring that feels a lot like primary scoring

 

[therealkoho]

We over-analyze these mid-season games way too much.

One goalie played amazing; the other was rubbish. The score reflected that.

Rubbish? Really?

I think that's oversimplified no?