Post-Game Talk: Leafs lose- due for one of these but Jack man

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

So again, regular season success. The heavy hitting starts closer to the playoffs. Leaf players can admit they're too easy to play against yet posters here will argue otherwise relentlessly. If they go out again this year, does the roster then become fatally flawed? Or are we still great!?

well we're in the regular season, so we can only talk about regular season results. I'm just saying that it's possible to lose a game and not have it be an indication that there's something horrifically wrong with the team. If the Leafs respond to physical play every time like they did against Calgary, I don't think there would be a problem. It would be worrying if they got badly outplayed or tried to shy away or something, not that they just ended up losing

 

[mclaren55]

Exactly right. Same as how people always act like Montreals physicality is the reason we lost to them last year; conveniently ignoring that Montreal played equally as physical, perhaps even more, in games 1-4 vs 6-7, and last I checked, we won 3 of those first 4. Physicality continues to be what people harp on, but rarely the reason we haven’t gotten over the hump

Physicality takes it's toll the longer the series progress, which is something most who have never played the game fail to realize. For the record, I believe the last 5 Cup winners all outhit their opponents in the finals. Take it for what it's worth, but I can't remember the last team that played soft and won a Cup. Even Crosby will take guys finger tips off and throw elbows.

Continue to harp on them being out-goalied and out-lucked though, good recipe for complacency and stagnation. See how that works?

 

[Stephen]

It's fair to be concerned about the teams overall physicality level, but the simple truth is that in an alternative reality where Matthews and Nylander were throwing a few cross checks and having Tavares fight a guy last night may make folks feel better about the loss, but it wasn't going to change the final score of the game.

You’re quite right. That wasn’t the style of game the Leafs want to play and getting dragged into the alley way is more of the exclamation mark.

I guess the problem is if game tape mounts on the Leafs losing this way to the Rangers and Flames it just reinforces a clear playbook to use against the Leafs: Shell up, take the Leafs perimeter cycle for while, counter attack and lay the body liberally. But then again for every one of those games, we did manage the Hurricanes and swatted away the Islanders physical contest.

In summary I just don’t like the idea of easy exploits teams can look for when playing the Leafs. Leaky goaltending and getting pushed around are tough ways to lose.

 

[Coachcorner]

I didn't like the fact we was not dressing neither Clifford nore Ritchie on tis one sire............. Ritchie is a hillbilly yeah, but even that scarecrow would understand to mix it up and drop the mits against some otha fool. Or would he..... Not bloody likely.

 

[stuart5035]

Jack was below average, and man, can we please keep Holl on the third pairing? I couldn't stomach the whole game, but from what I saw, two goals were directly attributable to Holl being beat on the outside. Muzzin also looked like he was continually pinching, aggressively, and it led to one or two rushes that converted.

We also got crushed physically, crushed. If this is how the team plays with regards to being physical, we are beyond f***ed in the playoffs.

agreed.

I was at the game and it was sad to watch our small, frail defenders get plastered against the boards constantly. Yes physicality rules in the playoffs, this felt like a playoff game after the Zadorov hit. The whole building shook. I don’t give us much chance until we get some big mean bodies; oh for a Clutterbuck, Mayfield, Martin, Chara

 

[ACC1224]

Wonder what the record is this year without Simmonds or Ritchie is the lineup vs when one of them is in?

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

How can you say one data point is irrelevant whereas another isn't? If Jack's receiving more high-danger shots he's going to have a lower save percentage. It's not an either-or thing here.

But he wasn't, the 1st, 3rd and 5th goals were soft as melted butter in fact the only one that was truly on the defense was the 2nd goal

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Wonder what the record is this year without Simmonds or Ritchie is the lineup vs when one of them is in?

Well seeing as I can't remember the last time Ritchie was in the lineup those numbers would be heavily skewed towards Simmonds

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Sure fun to how bipolar leafs fan can be...

Won against carolina : oh yeah we're playing very good and we are able to compete against every body

Lost against calgary playing the same exact way: we will never win be able to bewt florida or tampa or whatever with that group and we need to trade everyone and need upgrade at every position... we need to trade muzzin he was awful in his 1st game in a month and like his 6 in 2 month....

Just calm down and relax

You can't claim they played the exact same way when they didn't get a save

 

[ACC1224]

Well seeing as I can't remember the last time Ritchie was in the lineup those numbers would be heavily skewed towards Simmonds

ok?

 

[Sypher04]

Physicality takes it's toll the longer the series progress, which is something most who have never played the game fail to realize. For the record, I believe the last 5 Cup winners all outhit their opponents in the finals. Take it for what it's worth, but I can't remember the last team that played soft and won a Cup. Even Crosby will take guys finger tips off and throw elbows.

Continue to harp on them being out-goalied and out-lucked though, good recipe for complacency and stagnation. See how that works?

Not really sure I see why you felt the need to be so condescending considering I neither made the arguments you’re asserting in your last parapraph, nor have I claimed that hitting doesn’t play a role at all. Just that physicality isn’t THE reason we lost, as people like to make it out to be.

 

[Torontonian]

We over-analyze these mid-season games way too much.

One goalie played amazing; the other was rubbish. The score reflected that.

100% agreed, people start asking questions and trying to analyze like are we tough enough for the playoffs etc, this game here came down to a goaltending difference.

Also this is game game 44 out of 82, I don't think the Leafs are trying to get beaten and bruised up half way through the season over nothing.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

Forgive me if I take this type of loss as a bad sign for any future playoff series. It’s one thing to lose a one off game to like Arizona where puck luck just wasn’t there, or Colorado with a team that just beat us at our own game. It’s entirely another thing when our worst losses are in the type of games that we’ll 100% see in the playoffs, the type of game that’s done us in the last 4 playoff losses.

The Rangers loss saw Reaves, Goodrow, and the rest of the Rangers run roughshod over us and score 5 unanswered on us. Calgary just did the same thing to us. In neither game did the Leafs look capable at countering or surviving that style, and you can be damn sure that Tampa, Florida, or Boston will play that way come Spring.

If you want to blame Jack go right ahead, but that doesn’t assuage any worries. The man has been bad for a month outside of one game against a shit Devils team. Mrazek has looked better but still hasn’t built up that trust.

 

[thusk]

But he wasn't, the 1st, 3rd and 5th goals were soft as melted butter in fact the only one that was truly on the defense was the 2nd goal

The 1st one you cant blame any goalie... from the area of the shot, you just take a good shot and the goalie cant do absolutly nothing but yes 3th and 5th goal, he had to make those saves.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

The 1st one you cant blame any goalie... from the area of the shot, you just take a good shot and the goalie cant do absolutly nothing but yes 3th and 5th goal, he had to make those saves.

You can't let in that 1st goal, not 24 seconds after you take a lead

 

[thusk]

You can't let in that 1st goal, not 24 seconds after you take a lead

You cant let a a guy all alone right to the middle of your zone at 15 feet of your net, its sure you will pay the price for that kind of mistake

 

[JT AM da real deal]

1st goal off post and shooter moving through slot -- a very very tough save but yes a Price maybe makes that one but not Soup
2nd goal Sandin got taught a rook lesson - no tender making that save unless TALL and highly athletic like Vasi but not Soup
3rd goal - Muzzy tips puck into his net - very very tough save - can't blame tenders on slot tips
4th goal - Holl f'up - slot shot on move but yes a Price maybe makes that one and maybe Soup
5th goal - 3 players screen - he can't see anything - JT/Holl f'up

Bottom line really only 1 save Soup should have made but he also made a 10 beller in blue ice on a for sure goal against so i'd say he was average which is what he likely is an average tender

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

You cant let a a guy all alone right to the middle of your zone at 15 feet of your net, its sure you will pay the price for that kind of mistake

Make the save

 

[Zybalto]

Was calling for Bunting to be on the top line for weeks......

and now the same thing for Kerfoot and Mikheyev to be swapped.....


I know the brass liked what they saw from the Nylander/Kerfoot combo in the playoffs last year but the swap will be a huge boost to the team. Kerfoot on the third line was the best it has looked all season and Mikheyev's speed would spark a second line that needs one.

 

[NinjaKick]

anyone else feel like Willy has been playing like shit the last little while?

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

1st goal off post and shooter moving through slot -- a very very tough save but yes a Price maybe makes that one but not Soup
2nd goal Sandin got taught a rook lesson - no tender making that save unless TALL and highly athletic like Vasi but not Soup
3rd goal - Muzzy tips puck into his net - very very tough save - can't blame tenders on slot tips
4th goal - Holl f'up - slot shot on move but yes a Price maybe makes that one and maybe Soup
5th goal - 3 players screen - he can't see anything - JT/Holl f'up

Bottom line really only 1 save Soup should have made but he also made a 10 beller in blue ice on a for sure goal against so i'd say he was average which is what he likely is an average tender

More excuses for another shit Campbell performance

 

[JT AM da real deal]

More excuses for another shit Campbell performance

Reality is always hard da truth is tough .. Soup is an average nhl tender .. too many of you think he is a top 10 tender in league .. he isn't .. he can get hot and he will get cold like every tender in pro hockey .. he is not VASI .. he is not Price .. get on with it

 

[ACC1224]

anyone else feel like Willy has been playing like shit the last little while?

Yep, but he always seems to get a free pass.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Reality is always hard da truth is tough .. Soup is an average nhl tender .. too many of you think he is a top 10 tender in league .. he isn't .. he can get hot and he will get cold like every tender in pro hockey .. he is not VASI .. he is not Price .. get on with it

I've been saying his play has been a problem for awhile now.

 

[Mess]

Prove me wrong and I'll happily eat crow. While some (not specifically you) will still talk about being goalied, unlucky, injured, expected wins etc etc should they bow out early again.

Some fans can see losses in the regular season as early warning signs that might become playoff concerns with foresight, while other fans will use the regular season current results only as a defense mechanism to say everything is fine, check the standings!!!.

Does anyone remember the Leafs won the North Div last year and as such got to play the lowest ranked #18OA Montreal Canadiens in round #1?. Our regular season performance and results don't help explain away playoff losses unless you learn from the regular season and address those pitfalls prior to playoff time. After being ousted from the playoffs its toooooo late, and it would be completely nonsensical to tell anyone to refer back to the regular season results and conclude all is fine, and dismissing early warning signs as unwarranted .

With the Leafs "physicality" until proven otherwise will always be a talking point and concern in terms of push back ability not governed by shots on net alone, when playoff style hockey is on the menu. Putting all your eggs in one basket of Matthews and Marner together, also plays into the hand of the opposition come playoff time if the rest of the team are just passengers. 1 goal in 7 playoff games combined for Auston and Mitch last year does not equate to Matthews winning the Rocket in the regular season.

During Leafs current 6 game winning streak this has all been Leafs top line carrying the load for the most part, and doing most of the damage. Where are the supporting cast even against easier competition while piling up wins?

Anyone thinking Jack Campbell is currently fine, pointing to his stellar first 2-3 months isn't following the trend that this isn't just 1 loss yesterday, but rather a bad month of below average play. His 12 games in January/Feb have him with a 3.68 GA/G and .883 sv% and you are not going to win many playoff series with those stats against good teams, just because you beat NJ and Edmonton and Ottawa despite them recently.

But management is making progress in terms of at least an understanding this, as we have seen a shift in philosophy by GM from a free skated skilled team that lost in the playoffs, to now by adding Bunting, Ritchie, Simmonds and Clifford that physicality is something that needed addressing. Yesterday the Leafs could have used some of that push back ability. Keefe has attempted to break up the top line and balance the offense recently with new line combos, likely also realizing he might need to do this come playoff time so that Leafs can't be shutdown and defeated simply by defending Matthews and Marner line, and needs a fallback plan. Giving Mrazek 3 years at $3.8 mil also a security blanket in net just in case Campbell continues down this current road.