Post-Game Talk: Leafs lose- due for one of these but Jack man

[fahad203]

...and the Tampa, Boston, Colorado and most recently Carolina games also had playoff feels to them and we won the majority of the games?

Expected Goals differential is literally the go-to stat when measuring the quality of chances and the Leafs are first in the league this season....and they were the better team last night as well.

The top 5 teams in hits this season are Ottawa, Boston, Montreal, NYI and Nashville. Theres such thing as effective physicality very few teams do it right. Most of the more physical teams are crap chasing the more skilled players around as they lose games.

I think goaltending and puck luck was a far bigger factor last night than physical play. When you consider the edge in PP time the Flames had (including 5 on 3), the Leafs stats look even better. I think the Flames are celebrating a victory at home but I wouldnt expect Sutter to be all that cheery towards his players overall effort as they were outworked most of the night.

We have beat good teams on one of cases. We play a 7 game series against them, we are gonna get run over
Those teams dont'care about regular season success, somethign we do it seems

Those teams are built for playoffs, last I checked. They have done well in playoffs in recent years, we haven't.

Also, there are no goaltending luck. Jack sucks. He has for last 10 years. Hence why he was never anything than a back up
He cost us the series last year. He needed to make one save any of the OTs. He gave up a horrible goal against Gallaghaer to start game 7

Dude is mentally fragile and has a strenght of a 12 year old girl

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Some of these young fans just don't get it. Hell our GM didn't until Shanny said we needed to be tougher to play against. Dubas has tried but failed miserably with Foligno, Ritchie, Gabriel and Clifford and did not replace Bogo's grit, size and toughness.

Truth is, this team today is softer than it was a year ago.

Dubas has to hope Ritchie can wake up and show up in the playoffs. Simmonds started well in last year's playoffs but all but disappeared by the end.

Agreed if Ritchie does not lose 20 lbs in next 3 months and come back to team for playoffs hungry we are in deep sh*t .. Shanny has told him this personally so he should be motivated

 

[Shooter2x]

Did you watch Canes game? Guess why we won that one? Because Wayner stopped Canes from running around and over each of our guys with 3 heavy hard fisted shots to skull. After da fight guess what Canes stopped it. and Leafs soft core skilled guys started to play again. Hockey has been a game of intimidation for a hundred years. And when you have da bull on da bench game is different. Now Wayner is not enough against Flames but Wayner and Ritchie and that game plays different then it did.

I find it hard to believe that's why we won the game, pretty sure it had everything to do with the top line, especially Marner. You seriously think we don't win that game if Simmonds doesn't do that?

And if you're right, how often does Simmonds have this kind of impact? Once a month at best?

 

[Twine Tickler]

You lost me here. Muzzin no longer plays as nasty as before. His body won't hold up if we rely on him for anti-soft. Sorry but teams aren't scared of Simmonds at this point of his career. He's another one who can enforce in spurts and then needs some low event games to recover. It confuses me how nobody else sees this. Teams being worried about Simmonds coming at them is probably one of the biggest myths on this board. Ritchie never plays so it's irrelevant to mention him. Bunting is more of a pest who gets into the dirty areas for us and draws a lot of penalties and scores goals greasing it up, but he's not a deterrent.

Flames only average 3 more hits per game than us but benefited greatly having some "truculence" in their lineup last night. Leafs don't need an identity or roster over haul to increase their hits per game or anything like that. They just need 1-2 guys who actually make teams keep their head up when on the ice, game in and game out. Preferably under the age of 30. We have 3 potential roster spots to do this with: Simmonds, Spezza and Kase (not by choice). I haven't scanned the league to see options, but hopefully there's some guys we can look into.

The more people deny this, the worse we will be if management agrees with them. Which they fortunately don't, since they ranked Foligno over Hall on their priority list last season.


Did anyone catch Engvall after Rielly jumped Zadorov? He just stood there and watched with his hands lightly holding back a Flame player, made himself a peace maker. Wanted nothing to do with the violence. The only reason he ended up in the pileup is because a Flame grabbed him from behind and dragged him down. Then he just accepts it. Doesn't even try to break free. I'm not calling out Engvall, he's been playing well, but it does show an area we lack in. That's Morgan Rielly, your no.1 D and biggest bro on the team, jumping someone 6'5. How do you not get fired up and start smashing everyone with him.

We are no less tough than Tampa was the past 2 seasons, and they won the cup both of those seasons.

We win that game 7 times out of 10 if we get a timely save or 2 and if we weren't down a man 5 times in the first 35 mins.

Calgary played a good game. It's ok to be beaten by a good team that played hard and well. If we convert more than 1 time in our first 30 SOG this game looks a little different.

The over reactions on here are crazy after a loss. Remember the mayhem that ensued after we lost to Colorado and Arizona? We instantly became a flawed team that has no chance getting out of the first round after 1 single loss. Do I wish we had a better response to the physicality of the game yesterday? absolutely. But that was never a battle we were going to win. And lets be real, its not the reason we lost the game.

We put 50 f***ing shots on net. We had boneheaded turnovers and lazy defense on the GA. None of the goals against were because we were being outworked physically.

Calgary should be proud of the effort they put forth on back to back nights. They came out with a very strong intensity. But I'm pretty sure if they allow 50 shots per game going forward, all while absorbing the lion share of PP time, I'd say that's not exactly a formula Darryl will be happy with. Taking nothing away from them, they deserved to win. But it was far from this dominating game that twitter, HFboards, and the scoreboard would suggest.

People need to relax. The f***ing team is 30-11-3 lol

 

[Mess]

Those who understand get this, those who don't never will.

Campbell wasn't very good but Keefe gets some blame here, needed some beef in the lineup vs a team like the Flames.

Even with Simmonds perhaps unavailable due the birth of kid, the Leafs still had options like Clifford and Ritchie and perhaps both should have dressed.

While it was admirable for Morgan Rielly to go after Zadorov, it was hardly a true response and Calgary continued to up the physicality in hopes of slowing down the Leafs attack.

The entire momentum and tone turned for Calgary after that big hit and it went straight to the legs of the Flames who scored 3 quick goals shortly thereafter while Leafs were reeling from the hit still.

Leafs did recover composure in the 3rd again and carried the play, but a Sutter coach team is always going to play physical and attempt to protect and defend a lead.

 

[Tarmore]

The 2C is ppg this season while being reliable in his own zone.. he’s far from the problem

@Hockey 4 Life How many 2nd centers are at that pace in the NHL. Hint not many.

 

[ShaneFalco]

People need to relax. The f***ing team is 30-11-3 lol

Oh how many times I've heard this during the regular season

 

[TheBeastCoast]

Ok, so we have had all of these first round exits over the past 6 seasons due to being "unlucky" or having insufficient goal tending. That is your view, and I have a different one. I didn't just look at the hit counter, I watched the damn games, all of our playoff games, for the last 30 years. This era (Matthews) is the softest roster we have had heading into post season play in a very long time. I do believe that is a key contributing factor, just as much as our streaky goal tending and "luck".

No false equivalency, just a myriad of factors leading to perpetually underperforming in the playoffs.

I'm agreeing with you for the record, that it was only a single factor, as much so as our two unlucky turnovers were single factors in particular losses.

I don't think all of our series loses were bad luck or having bad goaltending. I specifically think the Montreal series was due to those factors. The 2 Boston series are an entirely different beast all together.
The Leafs having the second best goalie in a series is the common thread amongst all of our playoff failures though.

 

[mclaren55]

We are no less tough than Tampa was the past 2 seasons, and they won the cup both of those seasons.

We win that game 7 times out of 10 if we get a timely save or 2 and if we weren't down a man 5 times in the first 35 mins.

Calgary played a good game. It's ok to be beaten by a good team that played hard and well. If we convert more than 1 time in our first 30 SOG this game looks a little different.

The over reactions on here are crazy after a loss. Remember the mayhem that ensued after we lost to Colorado and Arizona? We instantly became a flawed team that has no chance getting out of the first round after 1 single loss. Do I wish we had a better response to the physicality of the game yesterday? absolutely. But that was never a battle we were going to win. And lets be real, its not the reason we lost the game.

We put 50 f***ing shots on net. We had boneheaded turnovers and lazy defense on the GA. None of the goals against were because we were being outworked physically.

Calgary should be proud of the effort they put forth on back to back nights. They came out with a very strong intensity. But I'm pretty sure if they allow 50 shots per game going forward, all while absorbing the lion share of PP time, I'd say that's not exactly a formula Darryl will be happy with. Taking nothing away from them, they deserved to win. But it was far from this dominating game that twitter, HFboards, and the scoreboard would suggest.

People need to relax. The f***ing team is 30-11-3 lol

We are no less tough than Tampa? You honestly believe that? Who on our team is like Kucherov, Maroon, Perry, Cirelli, Killorn, etc? What fantasy land are you living in that you believe that terrible narrative?

As for shot totals, how about breaking those shots down by danger? Guess what, we had equal high danger chances despite outshooting them 2-1.

 

[Zybalto]

Oh how many times I've heard this during the regular season

Considering it's maybe the best Leafs record of modern times and the Leafs have been crap most of the last two decades, not very often.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

I find it hard to believe that's why we won the game, pretty sure it had everything to do with the top line, especially Marner. You seriously think we don't win that game if Simmonds doesn't do that?

And if you're right, how often does Simmonds have this kind of impact? Once a month at best?

You have to have played either junior or pro hockey to really get it as ACC notes .. most people really don't understand what it takes to build a career in hockey world .. and what every hockey player has been exposed to over a 1,000 games and a few thousand practices .. i don't need to think it i know it .. it was clear as day to every former player i have spoken to about that game .. but most fans wont get it and that's fine too .. bottom line Matty Mitch and Willy need protection and policing to deliver playoff performance and all 3 of them need to grow some this playoff run .. without Wayner that game we would have been blown out badly

 

[mclaren55]

Considering it's maybe the best Leafs record of modern times and the Leafs have been crap most of the last two decades, not very often.

Did they not set a regular season record before, and lose first round? Most fans are in "show me" mode, as in show me what you can do in the playoffs.

 

[Zybalto]

We have beat good teams on one of cases. We play a 7 game series against them, we are gonna get run over
Those teams dont'care about regular season success, somethign we do it seems

Those teams are built for playoffs, last I checked. They have done well in playoffs in recent years, we haven't.

Also, there are no goaltending luck. Jack sucks. He has for last 10 years. Hence why he was never anything than a back up
He cost us the series last year. He needed to make one save any of the OTs. He gave up a horrible goal against Gallaghaer to start game 7

Dude is mentally fragile and has a strenght of a 12 year old girl

You're preaching to the choir when it comes to getting a decent goaltending performance in the playoffs....but you have to remember that Tampa doesnt win it's cups without Vasy too...hell, Tampa doesnt even get out of the first round the last two years without him IMO.....and he flopped hard 3 years ago. Goalies are pretty voodoo.

Campbell can get hot though for long stretches and thats what we need from him this run. Hell, I hope we play Tampa. A battle of 2 top 5 teams in the first round is as good as a cup final for us to watch.

 

[Duffman955]

Need better goaltending and more pushback physically for the playoffs.

Kampf should not be on the 3rd line. Should be a 13th forward

Ritchie needs to get his shit together and make the starting lineup

Thought we played well offensively, but stil have a lot of breakdowns defensively. Holl and Lily look like they make boneheaded plays daily

Need a reliable #3/4 Dman by TDL

Looking at the big picture, we should be good for playoffs but probably facing Tampa so we need to be better.

 

[Shooter2x]

You have to have played either junior or pro hockey to really get it as ACC notes .. most people really don't understand what it takes to build a career in hockey world .. and what every hockey player has been exposed to over a 1,000 games and a few thousand practices .. i don't need to think it i know it .. it was clear as day to every former player i have spoken to about that game .. but most fans wont get it and that's fine too .. bottom line Matty Mitch and Willy need protection and policing to deliver playoff performance and all 3 of them need to grow some this playoff run .. without Wayner that game we would have been blown out badly

Canes came into the period down 2-1, then the teams swapped deficits/ties until overtime.

It was two skilled teams who went head to head in CF% in the 3rd period and the Leafs won thanks to their top line. Had literally nothing to do with Simmonds or the Canes being scared to suddenly throw hits. You have a very flawed view of that 3rd period.

 

[Mess]

Oh how many times I've heard this during the regular season

Much like the Carolina game, this was a playoff style like game as teams measure themselves for the real season ahead. The regular season a dress rehearsal for when it really matters.

Nobody is freaking out because of a loss after a 6 game winning streak, but there were lessons and takeaways from these 2 games to be had here nonetheless.

1) When the opposition holds Marner and Matthews in check the odds increase greatly going from a win to a loss. Marner and Matthews scored all 4 goals in the Carolina win, and held in check against the Flames in a loss. This team very much go's as AM and MM lead them, and when they play on the same line it does increase the opposition odds of defending them.

2) Playoff games are more physical and tighter checking and Leafs line-up last night did not reflect nor anticipate that as Tkachuk and Zadorov love to play that style. If this were truly a playoff game then Leafs line-up wasn't equipped to handle that. Next time Keefe will know better and I expected that was a lesson the coach learned in this one.

3) Early on Jack Campbell was Leafs MVP and all-star and stole the Leafs games and points. At this point he is playing very much like a tandem goalie and not true #1 starter you count on for 65+ games a year.. Now Leafs have arrived where there is a goalie choice coaches decision to be made nightly and they say if you have 2 goalies then you don't really have 1. If the playoffs started now based on recency of goalie play and performance what would Leafs goalie situation be?

 

[Twine Tickler]

We are no less tough than Tampa? You honestly believe that? Who on our team is like Kucherov, Maroon, Perry, Cirelli, Killorn, etc? What fantasy land are you living in that you believe that terrible narrative?

As for shot totals, how about breaking those shots down by danger? Guess what, we had equal high danger chances despite outshooting them 2-1.

given the fact that we were down a man 5 times in the first 35 mins and playing with 10 forwards the majority of the game I'd say it's pretty fair statement to suggest Calgary didn't dominate us. Yes, you are correct the HDCF were equal, but literally every other statistic was not.

you don't win games with fancy stats. I am well aware of that, so save your breath. The point is, this game was far closer than people want to suggest. There is an emotional response from this fanbase that is suggesting we got emasculated by a far superior team. When in reality, the 2 games we've played the Flames this season we've outshot them a combined 85 to 57, and have an average xGF% of 57.5%

Small sample size either way you look at it. But realistically we have not been owned by an superior team. This is just how sports work some times.

but fill your boots. Guard your heart and protect your feelings from the pending 1st round exit that you prognosticate. As far as I am concerned, anyone who bitches and moans after a game like last night's doesn't deserve to celebrate the 30 wins that came prior to. The boys can have an off night, especially if that off night includes them statistically winning almost every measurable metric outside of GF

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Canes came into the period down 2-1, then the teams swapped deficits/ties until overtime.

It was two skilled teams who went head to head in CF% in the 3rd period and the Leafs won thanks to their top line. Had literally nothing to do with Simmonds or the Canes being scared to suddenly throw hits. You have a very flawed view of that 3rd period.

Wrong but again I understand .. Canes are a FAST big tough team who plays a simple game with a strong forecheck and backcheck system and a simple breakout .. Leaf's are a SKILLED passing type team who pass it around for puck possession .. 2 absolutely completely different teams and playing styles .. you will see again this playoffs why we lose in round 1 again for 6th time .. in playoff hockey game ramps up with speed and unfortunately skill will not be able to cope with speed and grit

 

[ShaneFalco]

Considering it's maybe the best Leafs record of modern times and the Leafs have been crap most of the last two decades, not very often.

They haven't won a playoff round in decades. It was nice to see them do so well in the regular season 3-4 years ago. Now, well done, but show me playoff success. We're like the 2000'ish Sens - regular season champs, lose in the playoffs annually

 

[Shooter2x]

Wrong but again I understand .. Canes are a FAST big tough team who plays a simple game with a strong forecheck and backcheck system and a simple breakout .. Leaf's are a SKILLED passing type team who pass it around for puck possession .. 2 absolutely completely different teams and playing styles .. you will see again this playoffs why we lose in round 1 again for 6th time .. in playoff hockey game ramps up with speed and unfortunately skill will not be able to cope with speed and grit

This is a general statement we both agree on though so we'll call truce here.

If you do enjoy Simmonds, you won't have an issue if we swap him for an even better Simmonds anyways, so you benefit from my idea, there's no way you can lose here.

 

[Twine Tickler]

The irony of this fanbase is that we demand composure and focus from our players in key moments of games, and we lash out when they fail to do so. Yet, this same fanbase can't keep their shit together after losing one single game to a very good team who is playing at a very high level.

ya that makes sense...

 

[Cap'n Flavour]

The entire momentum and tone turned for Calgary after that big hit and it went straight to the legs of the Flames who scored 3 quick goals shortly thereafter while Leafs were reeling from the hit still.

If watching Kase get smoked with his head down for like the 20th time this season causes our D and goalie to shit the bed and make egregious errors then maybe the problem lies somewhere other than the lack of Clifford/Ritchie.

 

[Bigmarycombo]

Our first line had 20 shots on net and dominated at times.

Tavares and nylander and kerfoot have been missing in action for the last three weeks.

Holl despite all the stats posters try to jam down your throat has been piss poor at defending. Too slow too soft and low hockey IQ
He HAS to be replaced in our top four.

For those posters saying we don’t need grit just watch the game last night friggin backlund of all people was taking cheap shots and we gave them no pushback.

 

[Pyrophorus]

I never stated that was the sole reason we lost. It was a contributing factor though. People turnover pucks because they are afraid of getting hit to make a play. If you think physicality doesn't matter, I'm not sure this is a conversation worth having.

Does Tampa get tossed around? Boston? Washington? Name me a Cup winner who didn't have some serious physical elements in their game.

We outhit Boston in one series.
Plus if they 'out-physicalled' us, why did all series go the distance?

 

[Twine Tickler]

They haven't won a playoff round in decades. It was nice to see them do so well in the regular season 3-4 years ago. Now, well done, but show me playoff success. We're like the 2000'ish Sens - regular season champs, lose in the playoffs annually

They can't show you playoff success in February. Nor can they show you playoff defeat in February.

How about we give this team, who is 30-11-3 a chance at proving that narrative wrong in may?

just a thought