Post-Game Talk: Leafs lose 4-2

[Sypher04]

Matthews backed into the Montreal player, it wasn't a trip at all.

You need to rewatch it

 

[NewEraGM]

He would be your best player.

And the highest paid

 

[NewEraGM]

You need to rewatch it

Same thing as Gio on Wednesday. Initially called a penalty and then reversed . Good non call

 

[Metroid]

And the highest paid

So? He would still be your best player.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

Yeah I doubt wright becomes better than Hughes. Man Canadian media loves hyping Canadian prospects to the moon

Wright would’ve easily been better than mini-mouse aka Jack Hughes, had his family/team not made the foolish choice to take a year off from playing competitive hockey while twiddling their thumbs and waiting for the OHL/CDN government to allow play in Canada. That year off hurt Wright. Now he is more of a boom-bust type of 1 OA, still more likely to boom but I’m not sure his ceiling is as high now as it was 12-18 months ago when he was tearing up the OHL as an underaged, exceptional status rookie.

 

[Sypher04]

Same thing as Gio on Wednesday. Initially called a penalty and then reversed . Good non call

Not the same at all. Matthews was actually tripped. Giordano stick never made contact with the skate blade, or if it did, it grazed so lightly the player couldn’t have fallen like the way he did as a result (even on replay is virtually imperceptible to tell if it actually contacts the skate or not). Matthews foot is full clipped by the player skating by behind him which caused his fall.

It wasn’t a good non call and it led directly to a game winner that never would have happened otherwise, as Matthews would have gotten back to take his man

 

[showtime8]

Leafs are the 3rd highest scoring team in the league and yet Nylander is -13+/- and Tavares -9 are a liability defensively. Both were a -2 last night in another loss to a bottom team.

Wonder why the coach can't and won't separate them to minimize the impact of their goal differential problem while on the ice together.

For a few shifts in the game, we finally saw them apart, after another defensive breakdown and goal against. Wonder if we will see change in line-up construction going forward.

The problem with line construction is at this point in the season, you know what is working and what doesn't.

Keefe loves the first and 3rd lines. Matthews/Marner/Bunting aren't going to be separated because they dictate the terms. And the Mikheyev/Kampf/Engall line is pretty set in stone for the most part. So what do you have to work with at this point? Tavares isn't moving to the 4th line as a centreman and Nylander would get exposed as a 3rd line winger because he doesn't provide any effort.

Keefe has made his bed at this point.

 

[Hoglund4MvP]

The problem with line construction is at this point in the season, you know what is working and what doesn't.

Keefe loves the first and 3rd lines. Matthews/Marner/Bunting aren't going to be separated because they dictate the terms. And the Mikheyev/Kampf/Engall line is pretty set in stone for the most part. So what do you have to work with at this point? Tavares isn't moving to the 4th line as a centreman and Nylander would get exposed as a 3rd line winger because he doesn't provide any effort.

Keefe has made his bed at this point.

Nylander is fine in physical environment. He's strong and uses his head to get around. You must not have watch a game in last 2 years to say something as weird as Nylander exposed on 3rd line, where he shouldn't be , but just saying

 

[Captain Crunch]

Ok I just watched the game. People are nuts. Toronto played very well their goaltender outplayed ours. Who actually played ok. Ridiculous non call led directly to winner.

This happens to every team multiple times a year. Carolina just got beat last week the exact same way.

The team plays well. Is the better team the most every game. When that happens you get goalied more. Teams that get out shot constantly can’t get goalied by definition.

It’s a really good team. Goaltending is a concern but all you need is a 20 game run to win the cup. Good 2 weeks to win a round. Both goalies believe it or not have that in them.


Simmonds is probably done. We probably waive him next year. I hope spezza gets to 1000 this year. Then we can let him ride to the sunset.

Goalies are a concern. If Campbell can’t get it together. We will need to trade probably or bet on husso.

Bunting. Matthews. Marner
Kerfoot. Tavares Nylander
Engvall. Kampf. Soup
Blackwell. Spezza. Kase

Gio. Brodie
Rielly. Lub.
Muzz. Holl.
Sandin. Lilly

Is an excellent competitive team that could be undone by goaltending.

But both goalies have shown top potential for limited runs. Just need the right time.

People are nuts. Who cares where we finish. We will play one of

Tampa. Cup champs
Boston. Demons
Carolina. Freddie
Nyr. Goalied potential
Florida. The loser gets the longest streak.



None of these options are good. Just relax and see where the chips fall in may

I think one change that needs to be made is switching Marner and Nylander. The other would be switching Simmonds for just about anybody.
It’s frustrating how Keefe can be just as stubborn as Babcock was in terms of line tinkering.
On Hotstove they talked about how, of the top 4 teams in the Atlantic, we are the only one with a losing record when recording something like 40 or more shots on net. Of course the main reason being we don’t have forwards who will constantly go to the front of the net and fight for position, or are content to just shoot from the perimeter.

 

[showtime8]

Nylander is fine in physical environment. He's strong and uses his head to get around. You must not have watch a game in last 2 years to say something as weird as Nylander exposed on 3rd line, where he shouldn't be , but just saying

Take a look at the Savard goal. See who's check that is.

Also, this is Nylander:

The reason he would get exposed is because the 3 guys on that line actually skate when they're on the ice.

What game are you watching?

 

[Scion]

I am not sure I agree. Sure, Nylander hasn't been performing, but no one outside of the first and third lines has been.

Calling out Nylander specifically and letting the vets off the hook is lazy, spineless coaching. Man up Keefe and hold others accountable too.

Effort is a non negotiable. Say what you will about the others, but you can't say they don't compete. Nylander's effort wanes and this isn't a new issue.

 

[Scion]

About time Keefe called out Tavares for once , but he wouldn't want to hurt Tavares feelings. Keefe and his Junior B post game briefs.

I thought Tavares was really good last night and also just in general the past couple of weeks.

 

[Peasy]

Wright would’ve easily been better than mini-mouse aka Jack Hughes, had his family/team not made the foolish choice to take a year off from playing competitive hockey while twiddling their thumbs and waiting for the OHL/CDN government to allow play in Canada. That year off hurt Wright. Now he is more of a boom-bust type of 1 OA, still more likely to boom but I’m not sure his ceiling is as high now as it was 12-18 months ago when he was tearing up the OHL as an underaged, exceptional status rookie.

There's no guarantee without covid that wright would be a better player than Hughes lol. Before Laf was drafted a lot of people still chose him over Jack Hughes and now they don't even look like theyre in the same world (jack is only a few months older).

Veleno, another exceptional status Canadian had a pretty good rookie year in the Q on a terrible team, didn't have any covid interruptions but still couldn't bring his game to the next level.

 

[egd27]

I think we know what their character is by now. And they seem to have trouble dictating playstyle against certain teams that have a goalie, can efficiently park the bus and will get into the Leafs faces on an up tempo forecheck with a bit of sandpaper to finish. Nothing special but it can neutralize the Leafs skill advantages pretty effectively. Big Leaf fan Bruce Boudreau has the Canucks playing this way vs Toronto as well.

I think it just comes down to the fact that the Leafs aren't good at dictating playstyles that are too far out of their comfort level. So their best bet would be if they happened to match up vs Carolina, or Florida (let's see tomorrow) and somehow the game environment suited their strengths better.

I think your first paragraph sums up the problem quite well, however I can see the Carolina or Florida coaches adapting to this style without too much trouble.
In fact, it is such a simple game plan, any coach that didn't utilize it in a playoff series against the Leafs should be dismissed if he were to lose the series.
I fear our coach isn't able to counter this strategy, and our most talented players seem to be content passing around and shooting 50 low percentage shots a night.
I guess we shall see in 18 games.

 

[ACC1224]

Annoying game. Completely dominate only to get goalie'd. Nothing else to say.

This is a recording

 

[All Mod Cons]

We've somehow managed to find a coach more stubborn, than stubborn old Mike stubborn Babcock

 

[Legion34]

I think one change that needs to be made is switching Marner and Nylander. The other would be switching Simmonds for just about anybody.
It’s frustrating how Keefe can be just as stubborn as Babcock was in terms of line tinkering.
On Hotstove they talked about how, of the top 4 teams in the Atlantic, we are the only one with a losing record when recording something like 40 or more shots on net. Of course the main reason being we don’t have forwards who will constantly go to the front of the net and fight for position, or are content to just shoot from the perimeter.

I guess that could work if we were playing a team that has 2 really good defensive lines. If I was the coach I would try to make a version of an hbk line and let willy just run wild on weaker lines. Tavares works better with grinders. Like a poor mans crosby.

Bunting. Matthews. Marner
Kase. Tavares. Blackwell.
Spezza. Kerfoot. Nylander.
Kampf Line would be how I would go.

That’s contingent on kase being and staying.healthy. Which is far from certain

 

[Captain Crunch]

Leafs are the 3rd highest scoring team in the league and yet Nylander is -13+/- and Tavares -9 are a liability defensively. Both were a -2 last night in another loss to a bottom team.

Wonder why the coach can't and won't separate them to minimize the impact of their goal differential problem while on the ice together.

For a few shifts in the game, we finally saw them apart, after another defensive breakdown and goal against. Wonder if we will see change in line-up construction going forward.

Keefe appears scared to make that change and stick to it. Tavares looked great when put between Marner and Bunting for the 2 games that Matthews was suspended. And Matthews will score with whoever he plays with.
Why Keefe doesn’t see this is beyond me.

 

[Legion34]

This is a recording

Sure. It happens to all good teams multiple times a year. Good teams who consistently out play other teams still lose what 20-30’games a year. So it’s either

1.) your “good team” gets outplayed 20-30 times a year
2.) other teams goalies steal them games

Which is better?

 

[saltming]

I hate losing. I hate losing on the last minute of the game more. Most of all I hate losing to the Habs.
A vomitrocious trifecta of misery.
My malaise has reached epic levels. A sorrow that will go down as the most woeful despair of this epoch.
Abandon all hope ye who enter here.

Welp

 

[LastOne2100]

Effort is a non negotiable. Say what you will about the others, but you can't say they don't compete. Nylander's effort wanes and this isn't a new issue.

When it's Nylander, mistakes are automatically branded as lack of effort and he's skewered. Everyone else gets a pass.

If you watch last night's game closely, not just the goal highlights, you will see many of our forwards making lazy efforts all over the place - flying by the opponents net instead of stopping in front and having to battle, not back checking at all, waiving their stick instead of moving their feet, blown assignments, etc. Especially in that second period - that period was an effort problem TOP TO BOTTOM.

I'm all for holding players accountable. Let's hold them ALL accountable, not just the easy scapegoat. That's how you foster a winning culture instead of a team that thinks it's ok to show up randomly when they feel like it.

 

[ACC1224]

First night out in a bar with no masks!!!
Safe to say I only watched off and on.

I’m guessing they really win but were either out goalied or the refs cause the loss.

 

[egd27]

Don't be mad about this game. It's played 100 times and you get 98 W

Problem is that when it's played 7 times we get 4 L

 

[dubplatepressure]

that video here : Video: TOR's OZ Vulnerability

... that someone else around here posted is fantastic. Really paints the picture as to why we seem to regularly get 'goalied' or lose games like last night while outshooting teams 2:1 or even 3:1. Defensive gap control, structureless defensive systems, and an overly aggressive offensive attack that is not suitable for 2 of the 4 lines.

 

[ToneDog]

When it's Nylander, mistakes are automatically branded as lack of effort and he's skewered. Everyone else gets a pass.

If you watch last night's game closely, not just the goal highlights, you will see many of our forwards making lazy efforts all over the place - flying by the opponents net instead of stopping in front and having to battle, not back checking at all, waiving their stick instead of moving their feet, blown assignments, etc. Especially in that second period - that period was an effort problem TOP TO BOTTOM.

I'm all for holding players accountable. Let's hold them ALL accountable, not just the easy scapegoat. That's how you foster a winning culture instead of a team that thinks it's ok to show up randomly when they feel like it.

Perhaps this is why Nylander is working to rule for most of the past 2 months ?? Something is not right with 88 but it is being kept in house IMO.