Post-Game Talk: Leafs lose 4-2

[fahad203]

Exactly. What would be the point to a GM change? What would the new GM do that Dubas would be incapable of?

Do people not realize how terribly this organization had drafted prior to Dubas? Other than the slam dunk top 5 picks?

Then he should become a scout. Since he's so good at it

Other than Sandin who has worked so far? I don't see anyone in the line up who's a home run
I mean we have Engvall who was drafted 2014
Not top 5? I mean Nylander is 7 ( Nonis should get credit for that )


Take look at the players before Dubas drafts. They are playing in the league
So far only Sandin and Robertson has played games with the Leafs
Durzi is another playing for LA

Andreas Jhonsson
Carter Verhaege
Pierre Engvall
WIlliam Nylander
Travis Dermott
Auston Matthews(obvious)
Marner(Obvious)
Adam Brooks
Grundstorm
Lilly

Lets not pretend like Dubas is hitting home runs after home runs. He's been here for 4 years now

 

[Ziggdiezan]

To add to this, JT away from Nylander: 19 for, 16 against. 54 GF%.

Nylander away from Tavares: 13 for, 15 against. 46 GF%.

Underlying numbers are much better when they are together on the season overall, but since January 1:

Nylander away from Tavares: 46 CF%, 50 GF%, 49 xGF%, 38 HDCF%.
Tavares away from Nylander: 56 CF%, 57 GF%, 62 xGF%, 63 HDCF%.

Let's keep Tavares out of it. He is not the problem here. Sure, maybe if the expectation is he can drag Nylander's underperforming carcass around then he is underperforming, but even Matthews would not be able to drag Nylander around with the way he has played for most of 2022.

Nylander was singled out for a reason. He is the problem. He was the one not performing up to snuff. Tavares may not have flash and he may not have elite speed (he has never had either) but there is a reason why he is consistently a PPG player and is among the best at a bunch of the underlying numbers.

Interesting, how much ice time have they been apart for?

 

[PromisedLand]

A classic case of coach can't say anything to a perineal superstar
Lets face it, who is Keefe to talk down to Tavares? nobody

But he can with Nylander

as far as I am concerned Nylander contributes more to this team than Tavares. So to me Nylander is a bigger superstar than Tavares

 

[Buds17]

The goaltending was just passable, in spite of a number that would clearly suggest otherwise. The offence was great...minus that all-important element of execution.

 

[All Mod Cons]

All this talk about Dubas needing to go - but where's the Keefe talk? This is the same guy who refused to change lineups last playoffs despite getting spanked. Now constantly playing Tavares-Nylander and refusing to change it up knowing its not working. Awful

Thing is he's the GMs boy. He hired him without interviewing anyone else, because he knows more than everyone else. He won't fire him.

 

[Future]

Then he should become a scout. Since he's so good at it

Other than Sandin who has worked so far? I don't see anyone in the line up who's a home run
I mean we have Engvall who was drafted 2014
Not top 5? I mean Nylander is 7 ( Nonis should get credit for that )


Take look at the players before Dubas drafts. They are playing in the league
So far only Sandin and Robertson has played games with the Leafs
Durzi is another playing for LA

Andreas Jhonsson
Carter Verhaege
Pierre Engvall
WIlliam Nylander
Travis Dermott
Auston Matthews(obvious)
Marner(Obvious)
Adam Brooks
Grundstorm
Lilly

Lets not pretend like Dubas is hitting home runs after home runs. He's been here for 4 years now

His oldest draft pick is what 21/22? Give it some time. I think most fans here that follow prospects are really excited about this crop coming up. Have patience.

 

[PromisedLand]

9 points back of Florida with 18 games left. I think the goal should be to at least try and get second place in the division to ensure home ice for the first round.

Leafs had the home ice against both CBJ and Habs. Keefe refused to make use of home ice/last change or match lines.

 

[fahad203]

as far as I am concerned Nylander contributes more to this team than Tavares. So to me Nylander is a bigger superstar than Tavares

When you are the coach that lost to a zamboni driver you really dont' have a leg to stand on
Tavares wasn't even there for the 3-1 choke against Habs

Tavares has been known to be a big gamer all his life. He was 18 when he single handily won the game against US scoring 3 goals himself in WJC
2014 he broke his leg

His Isles team sucked

Tavares has nothing to prove to anything to anyone., He's overpaid yes but he's still a very good player
When one of leagues most consistent player is not playing well for a while, then it's on the coach to ask, you know maybe I am not doing something right, maybe this line isn't working

 

[fahad203]

His oldest draft pick is what 21/22? Give it some time. I think most fans here that follow prospects are really excited about this crop coming up. Have patience.

By that account give JFJ all the credit in the world

Some of the players he drafted still playing in the league
In fact dude drafted a legend and a franchise goalie in Rask 21st

Go check out who he drafted and their impact in the league

He hasn't had a job since.

Maybe we should bring back JFJ then

 

[All Mod Cons]

Thinking out loud:

Bunting-Matthews-Marner
Kerfoot-Nylander-Kase
Engvall-Tavares-Mikheyev
Blackwell-Kampf-Spezza

Basically create 2 strong checking lines and help shelter the Nylander line. I think Willy would benefit moving to the middle of the ice right now.

How can we ever set a roster with Kase in it? Like we can do those lines for 2 or 3 games and then we have to change it for a few weeks.

 

[Leafs1991]

By that account give JFJ all the credit in the world

Some of the players he drafted still playing in the league
In fact dude drafted a legend and a franchise goalie in Rask 21st

Go check out who he drafted and their impact in the league

He hasn't had a job since.

Maybe we should bring back JFJ then

Thats an amazing logical leap there. No idea how you went there from what the poster said.

 

[LastOne2100]

When you are the coach that lost to a zamboni driver you really dont' have a leg to stand on
Tavares wasn't even there for the 3-1 choke against Habs

Tavares has been known to be a big gamer all his life. He was 18 when he single handily won the game against US scoring 3 goals himself in WJC
2014 he broke his leg

His Isles team sucked

Tavares has nothing to prove to anything to anyone., He's overpaid yes but he's still a very good player
When one of leagues most consistent player is not playing well for a while, then it's on the coach to ask, you know maybe I am not doing something right, maybe this line isn't working

I agree with you that it's inexcusable that our coaches have made no adjustments while two of our "Big 4" have been struggling and finding no chemistry for so long.

But the 2022 Tavares we have is not the 2010s Tavares. We knew when we signed him he was going to decline and he's declining.

He certainly is still a very good player, but what seems to have tried up most is his offensive abilities. Give him a role that he is better suited for instead of trying to get 2013-2015 Tavares out of 2022 Tavares. Yes, it's too much to pay for a great shut down center, but let's let him play to his strengths.

 

[fahad203]

Thats an amazing logical leap there. No idea how you went there from what the poster said.

My previous post to his comment was. Some people are better suited to be scouts if you think draft picks are the standard for measuring a GM

JFJ was the head scout for San Jose for long time

If all we did was count drafts and their impact, then JFJ would win best leafs GM in 20 years

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Interesting, how much ice time have they been apart for?

Around 25% of their total ES time in 2022, and there is a lot of time playing with Matthews/Marner in there, but Tavares is at least performing with them and is performing well in the time he is playing with Kerfoot/Kase/etc. without Nylander.

Nylander is not even doing that.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

His oldest draft pick is what 21/22? Give it some time. I think most fans here that follow prospects are really excited about this crop coming up. Have patience.

Two of them are in the NHL too (Sandin and Durzi). Four others are knocking on the door (Abruzzese, Knies, Robertson, and Holmberg).

 

[saffronleaf]

I agree with you that it's inexcusable that our coaches have made no adjustments while two of our "Big 4" have been struggling and finding no chemistry for so long.

But the 2022 Tavares we have is not the 2010s Tavares. We knew when we signed him he was going to decline and he's declining.

He certainly is still a very good player, but what seems to have tried up most is his offensive abilities. Give him a role that he is better suited for instead of trying to get 2013-2015 Tavares out of 2022 Tavares. Yes, it's too much to pay for a great shut down center, but let's let him play to his strengths.

If we're playing him to his strengths it would be bottom six winger or healthy scratch.

 

[Seath The Scaleless]

Then he should become a scout. Since he's so good at it

Other than Sandin who has worked so far? I don't see anyone in the line up who's a home run
I mean we have Engvall who was drafted 2014
Not top 5? I mean Nylander is 7 ( Nonis should get credit for that )


Take look at the players before Dubas drafts. They are playing in the league
So far only Sandin and Robertson has played games with the Leafs
Durzi is another playing for LA

Andreas Jhonsson
Carter Verhaege
Pierre Engvall
WIlliam Nylander
Travis Dermott
Auston Matthews(obvious)
Marner(Obvious)
Adam Brooks
Grundstorm
Lilly

Lets not pretend like Dubas is hitting home runs after home runs. He's been here for 4 years now

Leafs haven't had any high picks recently, so it's kind of hard to have instant home runs. Late picks tend to take years to develop into impact pieces.

 

[LastOne2100]

If we're playing him to his strengths it would be bottom six winger or healthy scratch.

Exactly. Let him be the best shut down center third line in the league, and give that third line more ice time to stymie the opponent's top lines.

The issue is that our current second line doesn't work as it doesn't have an identity and matching skillsets.

 

[PromisedLand]

100% this. Tavares should be on the third line as this point creating one of the best shut down lines in the league to shut down other team's first lines.

Stop pretending he is an offensive juggernaut anymore.

Rebuild the second line to focus on offensive skill.

I'd put

Engvall-Kerfoot-Nylander
Mikheyev-Tavares-Kase/Blackwelll
Blackwell-Kampf-Spezza

I am almost positive matthews-marner line is going to play their counterparts to a stalemate in the playoffs. They won't score and won't get scored on.

 

[Future]

My previous post to his comment was. Some people are better suited to be scouts if you think draft picks are the standard for measuring a GM

JFJ was the head scout for San Jose for long time

If all we did was count drafts and their impact, then JFJ would win best leafs GM in 20 years

What specifically do you think needs to be done with this roster then?

 

[Gabriel426]

The team scored two goals and from memory when they lost to Habs and Sabres these past weeks, think they scored 1-2 goals in those losses.

Honestly, you can’t blame losses on one player or goalie when the team can’t score 3 goals. This is a 3 goals league. You need to score 3 goals to have a good chance at winning.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

Around 25% of their total ES time in 2022, and there is a lot of time playing with Matthews/Marner in there, but Tavares is at least performing with them and is performing well in the time he is playing with Kerfoot/Kase/etc. without Nylander.

Nylander is not even doing that.

Okay true, a decent amount more than I thought. I feel like with Kampf as the 3C you have to try Nylander back with Matthews because he isn't working with JT and won't work well/get enough ice time on a shutdown line with Kampf

 

[PromisedLand]

Thinking out loud:

Bunting-Matthews-Marner
Kerfoot-Nylander-Kase
Engvall-Tavares-Mikheyev
Blackwell-Kampf-Spezza

Basically create 2 strong checking lines and help shelter the Nylander line. I think Willy would benefit moving to the middle of the ice right now.

Might as well get on with it. They will need a center to replace Tavares eventually anyway... (assuming Nylander re-signs)

 

[ZEBROA]

To add to this, JT away from Nylander: 19 for, 16 against. 54 GF%.

Nylander away from Tavares: 13 for, 15 against. 46 GF%.

Underlying numbers are much better when they are together on the season overall, but since January 1:

Nylander away from Tavares: 46 CF%, 50 GF%, 49 xGF%, 38 HDCF%.
Tavares away from Nylander: 56 CF%, 57 GF%, 62 xGF%, 63 HDCF%.

Let's keep Tavares out of it. He is not the problem here. Sure, maybe if the expectation is he can drag Nylander's underperforming carcass around then he is underperforming, but even Matthews would not be able to drag Nylander around with the way he has played for most of 2022.

Nylander was singled out for a reason. He is the problem. He was the one not performing up to snuff. Tavares may not have flash and he may not have elite speed (he has never had either) but there is a reason why he is consistently a PPG player and is among the best at a bunch of the underlying numbers.

As for why Keefe is likely keeping them together... I am guessing faith in Nylander turning it around and them having strong underlying numbers together while Nylander has terrible underlying numbers away from Tavares. Nylander needs to be sheltered by Tavares. Although I guess Keefe has finally had enough and we likely see Nylander get demoted to the 3rd line with Engvall/Kampf. Hope that maybe they can inspire Nylander a little bit. Otherwise, Nylander is going to need to drag around Spezza/Simmonds and see if he can make that line more useful.

Is it that easy? Who did they play with? Wich D was out on the goals against.
If Tavares play better with Marner, then case closed. Thats what all has been saying. Matthews has succeded with worse players then Nylander. We need two working lines. But If it puttning Nylander on the third or forth line, is the best, so be it. Keefe do any thing, thank you. Tavares wont play better with whatever is left if it dont includes Marner.

 

[fahad203]

What specifically do you think needs to be done with this roster then?

I don't know man. I am not smart as lot of you
But I know what's not working and who's not working

Kyle will be a great GM, But not the man for this team

His biggest mistake to this date, as I have pointed out 100 times, has been Keefe.
You can have one rookie, GM or the coach. But the fact that they are both first timer in their roles are baffling to me

Very likeable guy. LIke JFJ very likeable guy. Says the right things
But really doesn't have feel for the game. You can work hard doing the wrong things. he reminds me of that guy