Post-Game Talk: Leafs lose 4-2

[Future]

Dubas is a smart and creative GM with a progressive mindset, and has thrived in some areas of team building and not others, but sometime it feels like we're waiting for him to fully mature as a GM with an appreciation for some of the old school stuff which actually isn't old school, but just fundamentals.

Getting rid of him will be a mistake. This team won’t hit its stride for another two years when the second wave of Robertson, Knies, Abruzzese, Holmberg, Niemela, etc. start making their impact and replace the replaceables.

He does have weaknesses, however. Certainly let’s his personal relationships get in the way of improving the roster.

 

[PromisedLand]

They should have crushed them when they had them down but didn't (again). Killer instinct missing.

This! SO MUCH THIS!

 

[Stephen]

Reminds me of a young hockey prospect. You are waiting for him to come around, learn the game and fully arrive
He's our version of Yakupov. Lots of skills, likeable guy but can't seem to put it together

He's like the management version of our core, essentially.

 

[PromisedLand]

Sad that we let individuals own it instead of owning this loss as a team.

Pathetic culture.

If we did we would be an awesome team. If someone makes a mistake others rise to make up for it; because they know if they made a mistake their team mates will rise to make for it too

that is a TEAM

 

[LastOne2100]

Getting rid of him will be a mistake. This team won’t hit its stride for another two years when the second wave of Robertson, Knies, Abruzzese, Holmberg, Niemela, etc. start making their impact and replace the replaceables.

He does have weaknesses, however. Certainly let’s his personal relationships get in the way of improving the roster.

You're talking about a Dubas that almost traded away Knies to save his own job.

The second wave that you allude to is exactly the reason we need Dubas gone now, he already blew the first wave.

 

[BertCorbeau]

100% this. Tavares should be on the third line as this point creating one of the best shut down lines in the league to shut down other team's first lines.

Stop pretending he is an offensive juggernaut anymore.

Rebuild the second line to focus on offensive skill.

Thinking out loud:

Bunting-Matthews-Marner
Kerfoot-Nylander-Kase
Engvall-Tavares-Mikheyev
Blackwell-Kampf-Spezza

Basically create 2 strong checking lines and help shelter the Nylander line. I think Willy would benefit moving to the middle of the ice right now.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

100% this. Tavares should be on the third line as this point creating one of the best shut down lines in the league to shut down other team's first lines.

Stop pretending he is an offensive juggernaut anymore.

Rebuild the second line to focus on offensive skill.

I don't think Tavares is a defensive juggernaut either. Kampf is better suited to being a shutdown 3C. Tavares has pretty niche skills, and it might be a challenge to find a spot where he can thrive

 

[Stephen]

Getting rid of him will be a mistake. This team won’t hit its stride for another two years when the second wave of Robertson, Knies, Abruzzese, Holmberg, Niemela, etc. start making their impact and replace the replaceables.

He does have weaknesses, however. Certainly let’s his personal relationships get in the way of improving the roster.

We need stability as an organization more than crazy upheavals. So while punishing Dubas would be satisfying short term if things go wrong, the best thing would be to just keep getting cracks at it as a work in progress, however frustrating it feels. Another GM doesn't have a clean slate walking in, and we are not rebuilding.

 

[Future]

You're talking about a Dubas that almost traded away Knies to save his own job.

The second wave that you allude to is exactly the reason we need Dubas gone now, he already blew the first wave.

He declined the trade BECAUSE they asked for Knies. Never was close to moving him. Especially not for a rental.

 

[fahad203]

Getting rid of him will be a mistake. This team won’t hit its stride for another two years when the second wave of Robertson, Knies, Abruzzese, Holmberg, Niemela, etc. start making their impact and replace the replaceables.

He does have weaknesses, however. Certainly let’s his personal relationships get in the way of improving the roster.

This is not the Macdonalds that you get your first shot and we will wait for you. This will be his 4th year and 4th losses if he loses
This is a result based industry

He's not the only GM in the league that we need him to carry the torch through. Pens fired Mike Jhonston after 1 year of coaching and Mike Sullivan won 2 Stanly Cups with them

Plenty of GMs have come along and moved along. They looked promising like John Chayka of Arizona
Getting rid of him will not be a mistake, It will be the right thing to do

He has no baring on any of the players he drafted. They'll be who they'll be regardless of him being here. He's their GM not their father

Also, none of those plaeyrs have amounted to anything. There are plenty of teams have better prospects waiting to come around and get their chances

 

[PromisedLand]

well im still hoping we go on a run lol, optimistic

everyone wants this team to do well. including the dubas haters. but in the end we have to be realistic.

that said, i will happily eat crow if this team can go on a run.

 

[LastOne2100]

He declined the trade BECAUSE they asked for Knies. Never was close to moving him. Especially not for a rental.

I'm sorry but I just don't believe it. The fact that it got to be enough of a conversation that it would be leaked and Dubas would be that mad about it is telling.

Otherwise he would've just laughed it off as a ridiculous proposal that went nowhere. That also would've made him look better in the eyes of Campbell and Knies.

The fact that he went to watch Knies play personally so recently is also very telling.

 

[Space umpire]

Could have had Allen play on the Leafs. Think about that for a second.

Cut it out! Every Leaf fan knows picks and prospects are more important than playoff level goaltending.

 

[fahad203]

Cut it out! Every Leaf fan knows picks and prospects are more important than playoff level goaltending.

It's not like we traded our 1st for anything useless last year

 

[Gabriel426]

The problem lies with Simmonds. The Leafs need someone who at least scare off the opposing team.
I think Keefe is playing Simmonds in hope he gets back to form.

 

[Captain Crunch]

The second line is trash. The eye test alone will tell you this. No need to look into the numbers.

Is Keefe afraid to split Matthews and Marner up?

Nylander has history with Matthews. (Matthews doesn't need too much help anyway) And Taveres had a career year offensively with Marner. We could potentially have two solid lines.....match up he'll for opponents. Frustrating that Keefe refuses to run those combos.

I’m thinking Matthews and Marner are the ones who have decided they need to play together.

 

[Future]

We need stability as an organization more than crazy upheavals. So while punishing Dubas would be satisfying short term if things go wrong, the best thing would be to just keep getting cracks at it as a work in progress, however frustrating it feels. Another GM doesn't have a clean slate walking in, and we are not rebuilding.

Exactly. What would be the point to a GM change? What would the new GM do that Dubas would be incapable of?

Do people not realize how terribly this organization had drafted prior to Dubas? Other than the slam dunk top 5 picks?

 

[fahad203]

The problem lies with Simmonds. The Leafs need someone who at least scare off the opposing team.
I think Keefe is playing Simmonds in hope he gets back to form.

Then Keefe is a bigger dumm A***....he hasn't been like that in 5 years

Maybe he's also waiting for Spezza to come around and be like the Spezza of 2006

 

[ZEBROA]

Cant only be Nylander. Crazy if Keefe gets away with blaming one dude. He should be able to put the mascot in Nylanders place and still have a winning team.

Nylander not only needs blame, he need a higher assingment, need to be the topguy on his line.And faster players. Not drag grandpa around who decide the pace. But right now Keefe please do any thing.

These few shot games are sometimes much harder for goalies then the opposite. 50shots should result in at least 5goals no matter what.

 

[LastOne2100]

Then Keefe is a bigger dumm A***....he hasn't been like that in 5 years

Maybe he's also waiting for Spezza to come around and be like the Spezza of 2006

In the case of Babcock, he seemed to honestly believe that veteran leadership was worth the cost of poor play.

In the case of Keefe, I think he's just afraid of challenging the veterans who have been around the game longer than him.

 

[stickty111]

Cant only be Nylander. Crazy if Keefe gets away with blaming one dude. He should be able to put the mascot in Nylanders place and still have a winning team.

Nylander not only needs blame, he need a higher assingment, need to be the topguy on his line.And faster players. Not drag grandpa around who decide the pace. But right now Keefe please do any thing.

These few shot games are sometimes much harder for goalies then the opposite. 50shots should result in at least 5goals no matter what.

This organization is biased against Nylander. Does Keefe demote Marner for that play? Nope.

 

[PromisedLand]

Bunting-Matthews-Marner
Knies/Abrusezze-Tavares-Nylander
Engvall-Kampf-Mikheyev
Kerfoot-Spezza-Blackwell

Try that out to see if one of those kids can bring some energy to that line.

I'd keep any kid the F away from Tavares. Give Tavares grinders and hop that line can score. if not then it is what it is.... the amount of times tavares has ruined nylander's dishes.... i've lost count....

 

[Captain Crunch]

All this talk about Dubas needing to go - but where's the Keefe talk? This is the same guy who refused to change lineups last playoffs despite getting spanked. Now constantly playing Tavares-Nylander and refusing to change it up knowing its not working. Awful

Dubas brought Keefe in. He wouldn’t fire him this soon, if ever, because then he would be admitting he made a mistake.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

We're paying 18 million dollars for a liability of a second line

It's unacceptable and ridiculous that we've continued with it for so long. It's not working.

To add to this, JT away from Nylander: 19 for, 16 against. 54 GF%.

Nylander away from Tavares: 13 for, 15 against. 46 GF%.

Underlying numbers are much better when they are together on the season overall, but since January 1:

Nylander away from Tavares: 46 CF%, 50 GF%, 49 xGF%, 38 HDCF%.
Tavares away from Nylander: 56 CF%, 57 GF%, 62 xGF%, 63 HDCF%.

Let's keep Tavares out of it. He is not the problem here. Sure, maybe if the expectation is he can drag Nylander's underperforming carcass around then he is underperforming, but even Matthews would not be able to drag Nylander around with the way he has played for most of 2022.

Nylander was singled out for a reason. He is the problem. He was the one not performing up to snuff. Tavares may not have flash and he may not have elite speed (he has never had either) but there is a reason why he is consistently a PPG player and is among the best at a bunch of the underlying numbers.

As for why Keefe is likely keeping them together... I am guessing faith in Nylander turning it around and them having strong underlying numbers together while Nylander has terrible underlying numbers away from Tavares. Nylander needs to be sheltered by Tavares. Although I guess Keefe has finally had enough and we likely see Nylander get demoted to the 3rd line with Engvall/Kampf. Hope that maybe they can inspire Nylander a little bit. Otherwise, Nylander is going to need to drag around Spezza/Simmonds and see if he can make that line more useful.

 

[PromisedLand]

4 straight first round exits..

"Unlucky with goaltending"

correction (if I may) its 5

1) Caps
2) Bruins
3) Bruins
4) CBJ (yea...it was playins but stil...)
5) Habs

"Unlucky with goaltending"