Leafs defense just plain sucks1

[Coffee]

Who do the Leafs send for Lindolhm?

 

[A1LeafNation]

Sheldon Keefe seems to think otherwise

Having two #1Cs doesn't make JT a #2C

 

[capfit9]

Having two #1Cs doesn't make JT a #2C

not sure if serious ?

 

[Bluelines]

he's on the Islanders and he isn't going anywhere unless a team significantly overpays

Just read his scouting report, SIGN ME UP!!! big boy , defencive defenceman ... yup plays 20 min a night and shoots right.

 

[hotpaws]

Just read his scouting report, SIGN ME UP!!! big boy , defencive defenceman ... yup plays 20 min a night and shoots right.

and making peanuts with another year left but like i said it'll take a substantial overpayment for Lou to move him

 

[LeafGrief]

The defense isn't great, clearly they're not doing well, but goaltending is very much the real problem. If Freddy can stand on his head behind Rielly-Hainsey/Zaitsev-Gardiner for two years, these schmucks should be able to make some saves. Not the defense's fault that Mrazek has been Sparks level bad.

 

[Shooter2x]

The first goal was caused by bad goaltending...the D was expecting Mrazek to punch the puck into the corner with his blocker, not misplay the puck and punch it to his left for an empty net tap in.

Not excusing Mrazek on that goal. It was worse than street hockey goaltending. It's how the defence played the 2 on 4 independent of the goalie I have a problem with. It was objectively horrible defence. All 4 guys are responsible for tracking the deflected puck? All their backs are turned to the play they couldnt care less to track the Coyotes players. It's easy to see how Mrazeks big whiff could have not ended up on the score board

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Until Dubas makes changes on the blueline, this team will not go anywhere. Just expect another first round exit. This issue has been ongoing for years and never really addressed. And waiting for often injuried Muzzin to come back to solidify the blue line is not the answer. Liljegren is not an NHL defenseman, but they keep putting him out there. They are running out of time and another first round exit should be the end of Dubas' tenure as the Leafs GM. Keefe can go too

I agree .. team has some nice pieces in Rielly and Brodie but after that it is very poor .. Muzzy is now a 3rd line pairing guy assuming he comes back not afraid and healthy .. Dermy has stalled in his development although playing better past 2 weeks .. Sandin can't wheel at an NHL level/weak defensively but has offensive potential .. Lily has most overall promise but he is making way too many rook errors (this is very normal) .. Holl has AHL level skills .. Lub is ok on a 3rd pair with Muzzy/more ability than Holl .. bottom line it is crystal clear we are completely missing a 2nd pairing .. we need to add 2 D who are big fast and can handle 2nd pairing minutes otherwise this is another guaranteed 1st round eXIT .. bottom line these are 5M AAV guys so we can only get 1 and that assumes Muzzy stays on LTIR til playoffs .. then real change has to occur in summer .. a miracle has to occur and we add a Jakob and then pair him with Muzzy (he has played a lot of RD) on 2nd pair and assume Muzzy comes back at last years level of play .. but highly unlikely either will occur

 

[CapspaceKiller]

I'm not going to blame the defense right now when the team is getting the worst starting goaltending in the nhl

 

[DraftSchmaft]

I'm not going to blame the defense right now when the team is getting the worst starting goaltending in the nhl

I think the issue is people are focusing too much on the word blame. Good goaltending or not there's a lot that needs to be cleaned up on D.

If it was just goaltending the GA/60 would be bad, but since its rock bottom bad have to at least look into what aspect of the defensive game is sky rocketing it downwards even further.

Leafs (as in the actual team, not arm chair gms) had D concerns they wanted to address well before the goaltending plummeted and those concerns seem to have worsened.

Goal is Stanley cup and our path is difficult. Need to have that context in mind when people point out defensive flaws. We're not planning on how to limit goals to the canucks coyotes or Sabres, where average goaltending alone can get the job done . This is a contender. Higher standards are expected otherwise lose the contender title.

 

[Nylanderthal]

These threads are just golden after watching you guys shit on Freddy so much last season, when I was telling you that 1) freddy was dealing with a longtime knee injury most of the season 2) leafs defense is super over rated while the overall focus is offensive puck position 3) this team is the definition of soft to the core.

Freddy must be feeling pretty good putting in a vezina level performance this season while watching the whole leaf fanbase implode along with Campbell (maybe not since hes bff with Matthews)

Fred quit on the team with his undiagnosed injury, I really don’t care how well he’s doing with one media reporter asking questions in Carolina, all that matters is how he would’ve done here and after multiple playoff failures and his antics last year were enough to get a fresh start.

 

[ShaneFalco]

I'm not going to blame the defense right now when the team is getting the worst starting goaltending in the nhl

Yes the goaltending has been bad but our "elite" defence can't clear the front of the net (except Lyub) and they stick check.

As Friedman indicated: NHL Rumour Mill: Hampus Lindholm a target of significant interest as insiders agree defense remains a top priority for Maple Leafs amid goaltending crisis

I have had a couple of teams send me information to say, “Yes, it is a lot on the goaltending, but if you take a look at the numbers since January 1st, Toronto’s defense against the rush and in the slot has not been very good.” I think this is a combination of team defense / goaltending.

When Dubas has said that defense is the number-one priority, I still think he considers that. I think he wants to upgrade the blue line. Now, I just think, “Is he going to have to do two things?”

 

[Nylanderthal]

The Leafs don’t give up a ton of shots or high danger scoring chances relative to most teams. They are an above average defensive team but not great or elite.

The goaltending is literally league worst and that is impacting the defense.

This is clearly evident, not sure how anyone can argue otherwise watching the games

 

[ShaneFalco]

Here's another

Friend of the site Justin Bourne discussed the Leafs‘ defense over at Sportsnet. I recommend you read the entire piece by Bourne if you haven’t already as it breaks down why the defense is problematic (and why the Leafs should likely add to it). In it, he wrote:

“Right now the Leafs’ goalies are getting lit up on high danger chances and are statistically among the worst duos in the league at allowing goals from directly in front of the net. I think that stat is affected by defending, as the Leafs simply don’t have the type of guys who keep bodies out of those areas, nor do they control sticks particularly well.”

While the goalies have struggled and certainly have conceded their fair share of bad goals, a common refrain at the moment when a “good” or “high quality” chance goal goes in is that they have to make a big save at some point — specifically, when it comes to tipped/deflected pucks right in front of the net. Almost the exact same conversation was had about Frederik Andersen last season, in particular on goals that were coming off of deflections. He has, of course, gone on to have a great season this season for Carolina — a team that ranks among the elite in shots allowed per game, corsi against, and scoring chances against.

Two different goalies performing poorly in the one location and performing well in the other location, before and after switching spots, is almost certainly not a coincidence.

The Leafs aren’t exactly bleeding chances with regularity, but when the mistakes happen, they are glaring. At the moment, this is a group with two true top-four defensemen, and even that Rielly-Brodie pairing’s numbers have likely been inflated by playing so much with the Auston Matthews line (they have played almost 400 minutes at 5v5 without them and are even in corsi, below 50 in fenwick and expected goals, and have been dead even in goals for and against at 16 apiece in those minutes).

That said, short of a number of players stepping up and/or emerging down the stretch, I don’t see a team that’s simply “fix the goaltending” away from getting where it wants to go. If anything, based on the pedigree of their past performance and ability, the goaltending is the most reasonable bet to normalize (the question is whether that would be good enough to make a serious Cup run; a goalie would almost certainly have to go on a heater of some sort knowing that’s what a deep run in the playoffs generally calls for).

The defense improving will help the goaltending improve – and “defense” includes the play of the forwards here, by the way. It is entirely possible that a fully-recovered Muzzin returns and finds his game, although that is a massive unknown to bank on. They might want an insurance policy for Muzzin knowing the current group is not good enough (and Kyle Dubas has indicated he wants to add a defenseman).

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

I harp on it a lot but the Tavares signing was so bad and will only get worse. It was way too early of a win now move and now he's progressively getting worse and the advertised "second first line" is no longer a thing as for half the season we've been carried by the first line.

I don't know where this lie comes from, he's got 55 points in 58 games his production is what we expected

 

[DraftSchmaft]

This is clearly evident, not sure how anyone can argue otherwise watching the games

How many chances do you expect our current schedule to get on us while the forwards have the puck > half the game anyways? There's only one puck. Shots can't appear out of thin air.

 

[Nylanderthal]

Here's another

Friend of the site Justin Bourne discussed the Leafs‘ defense over at Sportsnet. I recommend you read the entire piece by Bourne if you haven’t already as it breaks down why the defense is problematic (and why the Leafs should likely add to it). In it, he wrote:

Bournes an idiot who now works in media because his hockey analysis isn’t very conducive to winning.
If what he had to say was of any value he’d still be employed by the Marlies

 

[Nylanderthal]

I don't know where this lie comes from, he's got 55 points in 58 games his production is what we expected

I’d like a few more goals From him but overall if this is a bad season then it’s acceptable. I still think he and Willy aren’t good stylistic fits and would be better served being split up making two 2nd lines

 

[zeke]

The defense (red line) has stayed very good and stable all year, and has been actually better recently.

Goaltending (blue line) has been....a wee bit less stable.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Bournes an idiot who now works in media because his hockey analysis isn’t very conducive to winning.
If what he had to say was of any value he’d still be employed by the Marlies

So we should just go by what you say? Goaltending sucks but everything else is good?

 

[Nylanderthal]

So we should just go by what you say? Goaltending sucks but everything else is good?

That’s what the raw data suggests, along with the eye test. So yes, but not because I said so, but because that’s literally what the data & eye test show.
Too many leaky goals too many whiffs on what should be routine stops.
Are they the 1977 habs? No, they’re not but if they have average netminding they’re good enough along with their offensive prowess to go places. None of these other factors like “defense” or “toughness” are going to mean a damn thing if A) the big ticket players don’t produce and B) they get subpar netminding

 

[IPS]

That’s what the raw data suggests, along with the eye test. So yes, but not because I said so, but because that’s literally what the data & eye test show.
Too many leaky goals too many whiffs on what should be routine stops.
Are they the 1977 habs? No, they’re not but if they have average netminding they’re good enough along with their offensive prowess to go places. None of these other factors like “defense” or “toughness” are going to mean a damn thing if A) the big ticket players don’t produce and B) they get subpar netminding

SV% wise Mrazek is currently in the midst of the worst season of his career. He was putting up better seasons on a floundering Detroit team.

I really don't think another goalie is going to just come in and magically fix everything.

 

[Nylanderthal]

SV% wise Mrazek is currently in the midst of the worst season of his career. He was putting up better seasons on a floundering Detroit team.

I really don't think another goalie is going to just come in and magically fix everything.

This makes 0 sense. He’s playing the worst he’s ever played but someone else can’t come in and be better because????

 

[Apotheosis]

I don't know where this lie comes from, he's got 55 points in 58 games his production is what we expected

There's no lie. We all watch the games. His impact is negligible compared to his monstrous cap hit. And a bulk of his points comes from Nylander creating chances for him, not the other way around. He's as slow as molasses and handles the puck like a grenade as of late.

 

[Apex Predator]

I don’t know how to post stats but If you look up individual giveaways there are a few Leafs there. Is there a way to look at giveaways per 60 or something because obviously the more someone plays the more giveaways they might have. Giveaways are an issue and this has not been talked here espicslly about our dman. Surprised I haven’t seen the stat posted here.