Confirmed with Link: Leafs acquire Dzingel, Lyubushkin from ARI for Ritchie, c.2nd... Dzingel on waivers &claimed

[djdev]

A player who’s 90% gone in UFA, a #6-7 Dman and a few picks?

man, people giving 1st round picks for almost anything nowadays, for somebody who has never scored more than 15 goals in the nhl...
toffoli has almost twice as many goals as crouse has points, and is a potential 30 goal scorer every year and calgary gave a worse package for him lol

 

[Leafs1991]

Hopefully you’re right but it sounds more like wishful thinking. His likely regression over the next three seasons and the flat cap may be too big a disadvantage for the team to get over.

We can probably send him to Arizona if needed haha

 

[Leafs1991]

We disagree. He’s a 1C on a bad team not a cup contender. A lot of knowledgable hockey people see his signing and the flat cap being a real problem for the team and it’s hard to see any way around that. He’s too slow for the fast paced puck possession style they play and that will only get worse. I wish it wasn’t the case but it is. He can’t drive a line and a $11M player should be able to do that. They should have kept Kadri and used the extra $6.5M to build a championship caliber defense. I hope they can find a way to put him on Robidas island. Otherwise there is no chance they can build a cup contender.

Agreed. The league gets faster every year and every season it looks worse for him. I don't think he has been very good at all this season. Yes, he's putting up points but if you actually watch him, he doesn't really stand out anymore in todays NHL.

 

[Fogelhund]

We needed a good sized, physical RD.

We needed to get rid of Ritchie and his contract.

We did both things, in one trade, and somehow people are unhappy? Is it always raining in your world?

Lyubushkin is a guy who I thought could make a decent addition to our team, from last year. He's a guy, along with Hakanpaa, that I'd hoped we would go after.

I appreciate that we didn't trade for the shiniest toy around, and many Leafs fans want to pick up some sort of Bigger name, even if it doesn't fit in... but this guy fits a need, and we got rid of a cap problem as well.

Dzingel probably gets claimed, and that's ok... Marlies had more than enough guys needing ice time, and if he doesn't get claimed, the Marlies might end up being better than the Habs.

 

[McSnypsky]

Interesting to learn that Matthews skated with him in the summer, wonder if Dubas asked him and Bunting about personality fit?

 

[Voodoo Child]

man, people giving 1st round picks for almost anything nowadays, for somebody who has never scored more than 15 goals in the nhl...
toffoli has almost twice as many goals as crouse has points, and is a potential 30 goal scorer every year and calgary gave a worse package for him lol

Toffoli will be 30 in eight weeks. Crouse won’t turn 25 until the summer.

Toffoli makes 4.25 for two years after this. Crouse makes 1.53, will probably get 2.75-3 from the arb.

Toffoli is a fine finesse winger, which the Leafs have several of, Crouse is a banger with hands - a Wilson, Maroon type if you will. The turd dealt in the deal this thread was for was supposed to be that, and was not.

Nobody likes giving up picks, but unless a D comes up who can be had, what better value will you get for a first in two years?

I don’t even know any kids in the 2024 draft, I’m sure some of them are good, but I doubt they’ll be Matthews good.

I think it’s easier to win with the core we have then worrying about players who could be added in a few years - though I do want to keep the picks this year and next.

 

[Stephen]

If someone told you on day 1 you can take a chance on a age + skillset combo like Ritchies and all it will cost you if it goes wrong is a 2nd round pick 3 years down the line, you take that deal every single time. The benefit from it working out far out weighs the cost. This is just basics.

A 2025 2nd is what, a 2022 5th.

I would tend to disagree with that. If we knew Ritchie came with so many issues and could actually flunk out of the NHL in 5 months of uninspired pay we probably wouldn't have given him the second year or steered clear in the first place.

That said, I think the bulk of the value of the pick here goes Lyubushkin. What was Ben Hutton worth, a 5th rounder? If Lyubushkin is a more impactful depth defenseman than Hutton and is valued at between a 3rd and a 4th, what do we end up giving up, a 3rd? Maybe a 2nd?

 

[Mess]

When Lyubushkin is in then 2 of the 3 of Dermott, Liljegren and/or Sandin are out.

Does that make the Leafs defense better?

Is he a #5, #6 or #7 Dman for the Leafs now?

 

[Clark4Ever]

When Lyubushkin is in then 2 of the 3 of Dermott, Liljegren and/or Sandin are out.

Does that make the Leafs defense better?

I guess we'll find out soon enough.

 

[djdev]

Toffoli will be 30 in eight weeks. Crouse won’t turn 25 until the summer.

Toffoli makes 4.25 for two years after this. Crouse makes 1.53, will probably get 2.75-3 from the arb.

Toffoli is a fine finesse winger, which the Leafs have several of, Crouse is a banger with hands - a Wilson, Maroon type if you will. The turd dealt in the deal this thread was for was supposed to be that, and was not.

Nobody likes giving up picks, but unless a D comes up who can be had, what better value will you get for a first in two years?

I don’t even know any kids in the 2024 draft, I’m sure some of them are good, but I doubt they’ll be Matthews good.

I think it’s easier to win with the core we have then worrying about players who could be added in a few years - though I do want to keep the picks this year and next.

toffoli isnt some sort of soft perimeter player. he was, is, and will most likely always be a much better player than lawson crouse. i like him(crouse) as a player, but hes not worth what you are trying to give up for him imo. hes a 3rd line player on a good team production wise.

the "turd" hes replacing(and who we now are giving away) was traded to boston at the age of 24 with a higher career ppg with the same physical style straight up for danton heinen and it was prob too much

and 2nd and a 4th or something..i would do that.

giving up what u are saying is way too much.

 

[Gallagbi]

When Lyubushkin is in then 2 of the 3 of Dermott, Liljegren and/or Sandin are out.

Does that make the Leafs defense better?

Any takers on what @Mess would have posted if another team acquired a 6'4 defensive Dman? Any takers out there? Maybe an overused cliche he doesn't seem to understand?

 

[Warden of the North]

Numbering our D is pointless at this point.

We'll need ALL of them if we're going to win anything. You need more then 6 to win a cup

 

[Anthrax442]

 

[Super Mega]

If he was worth a 2nd or 3rd alone why wouldn’t they have done that deal instead of doing the deal with us ?

It illustrates they saw value in Ritchie shockingly

 

[Super Mega]

View attachment 509211 Pretty sure Dubas quoted Ray from TPB here…. Fooking legend

I noticed they quote too lmao amazing!

 

[Jarqui]

All managers, in business and sports, make mistakes.
The good managers identify their error and fix it quickly.
I think Dubas is pretty close to that here.

With the loss of Hyman, I was all for signing Ritchie and his contract seemed fine under the circumstances, etc - at that time. For whatever reason, it didn't work out. With Ritchie clearing waivers in January, his trade value was proven to be worthless.

If Dzingel doesn't clear waivers to prove his trade value to be negligible, I cannot imagine him being worth more than a 7th - almost worthless after years of injuries and bouncing around.

GM Armstrong isn't stupid. I'm sure he's been shopping his UFAs. Bidding on Lyubushkin from other teams was lower than what the Leafs offered so he leveraged eating Ritchie's contract to a 2023 3rd or a 2025 2nd.

I don't think it was a steal by Dubas. Very roughly, a fair deal for both parties where Armstrong maximized a return for his UFAs, offset some salaries cash on two players and took a gamble on whether a change of scenery could turn around Ritchie's career.

I doubt Lyubushkin is a true top 4 on a contender. But he is somewhere between a 4th and 7th. He provides depth for sure and the defensive physical ingredient. But I think the biggest need is for this D Group is Muzzin needs to get his game turned around. I'm not sure if it is a nagging injury or what. Maybe Lyubushkin helps give Muzzin a break.

 

[aingefan]

I noticed they quote too lmao amazing!

 

[Nylander88]

We've already built a cup contender. We are one. Tavares is a 1C by any measure, and can drive a line. He's always been relatively slow, and that has never prevented him from being an elite player, and has not prevented him from being an effective and valuable part of our puck-possession team for years. There's no reason to think he's regressing, or will anytime soon. Our team has the 7th best defensive results in the league this year, and were similar last year - he hasn't prevented us from building a great team in all areas. Tavares is a better player than Kadri, and Kadri sealed his fate here when he took a 2nd consecutive playoff suspension.

His contract I definitely think is a bit steep and isn't gonna age well. That's the nature of the beast when you sign the big fish on the open market. But I agree with your main point. I remember watching him play on the Oshawa Generals in the OHL, myself, a year younger than JT, remembered thinking how I could probably beat him in a footrace. But he always found a way. He thinks the game well, goes to the right spots, and finds ways to be effective. The narrative that he's losing a step isn't accurate imo. He's never had speed. And he's still a point per game player again this year. He'll be fine. I do think this is Matthews team now though, no disrespect to JT

 

[Gabriel426]

When Lyubushkin is in then 2 of the 3 of Dermott, Liljegren and/or Sandin are out.

Does that make the Leafs defense better?

Is he a #5, #6 or #7 Dman for the Leafs now?

I think he gives option for Dubas to trade Holl and Dermott plus picks for a true top 4 dman.

 

[budzz]

I think he gives option for Dubas to trade Holl and Dermott plus picks for a true top 4 dman.

I think this exactly. If he can effectively replace Holl in the short term, say what you want about Holl but he is big and reasonably reliable, on a decent contract fot another year. VERY desirable for alot of teams looking for D-men, and a guy that plays in the top 4 on a contending team at a decent price? Valuable indeed. Would be a good piece to include in a trade with a team looking to unload a d and still compete next year. Either him or Dermott would be good bargaining chips now that we have that extra body. Suddenly one more asset when "we didn't have many bullets in the chamber". Now we have one more. I think this is only step one. Also for 'zona as some have mentionned they only have a handful of guys signed for next year, so they can utilize Ritchie's contract like many other couldn't. I luv this trade for the body we brought in and the extra flexibility capwise. No complaints here.

 

[Shooter2x]

I would tend to disagree with that. If we knew Ritchie came with so many issues and could actually flunk out of the NHL in 5 months of uninspired pay we probably wouldn't have given him the second year or steered clear in the first place.

That said, I think the bulk of the value of the pick here goes Lyubushkin. What was Ben Hutton worth, a 5th rounder? If Lyubushkin is a more impactful depth defenseman than Hutton and is valued at between a 3rd and a 4th, what do we end up giving up, a 3rd? Maybe a 2nd?

No way to know that at the time. Players of Ritchies age + overall skillset are rarely UFA options. These signings won't be common, but I love that our management will dive in on these guys. For this to end in only losing a 2025 second + gaining a D some people are actually high on, it was worth the risk 100%.

If another 25 year old potential 20 goal power forward hits the UFA, sign me up. For every Ritchie there's a Bunting.

 

[budzz]

Ritchie really wasn't a bad gamble. A big body that came off a decent year on a Bruins team that stresses D over everything, with a chance to play with better wingers here. It was a roll of the dice that didn't work, that didn't break the bank.

 

[Stephen]

No way to know that at the time. Players of Ritchies age + overall skillset are rarely UFA options. These signings won't be common, but I love that our management will dive in on these guys. For this to end in only losing a 2025 second + gaining a D some people are actually high on, it was worth the risk 100%.

If another 25 year old potential 20 goal power forward hits the UFA, sign me up. For every Ritchie there's a Bunting.

I'd say Nick Ritchie flunking out of an NHL job was not an outcome anyone in management or the fan base would have taken as a serious possibility last summer. He's just been that bad. So I don't think anyone would have been okay with the idea we could attach a 3rd or 2nd as a disposal fee.

But that said, the price is mostly for acquiring Lyubushkin, who should be filling a need they would have filled at the cost of a 2nd or 3rd anyway.

 

[Martin Skoula]

Toffoli will be 30 in eight weeks. Crouse won’t turn 25 until the summer.

Toffoli makes 4.25 for two years after this. Crouse makes 1.53, will probably get 2.75-3 from the arb.

Toffoli is a fine finesse winger, which the Leafs have several of, Crouse is a banger with hands - a Wilson, Maroon type if you will. The turd dealt in the deal this thread was for was supposed to be that, and was not.

Nobody likes giving up picks, but unless a D comes up who can be had, what better value will you get for a first in two years?

I don’t even know any kids in the 2024 draft, I’m sure some of them are good, but I doubt they’ll be Matthews good.

I think it’s easier to win with the core we have then worrying about players who could be added in a few years - though I do want to keep the picks this year and next.

Wilson's been pacing for 50-60 points the last few years and is a high end penalty killer who's strong defensively at ES as well. If Tom Wilson never threw a single hit in his career, he'd still have a job in someone's middle-6. I don't think Crouse is in the NHL if he doesn't hit, I'm tired of trying to force guys with bottom-6 hands into the top-6 just because they're big. He has a great backhand and can clean up garbage in front of the net, but if the other team double teams Matthews/Marner or Tavares/Nylander like they ignored Hyman, Crouse isn't creating any offense on his own.

I like him as a bottom 6 option and emergency top-6 fill in for injuries, but paying borderline Miller price for him is insane imo.

 

[hockeywiz542]

Kyle Dubas discusses Ilya Lyubushkin and Ryan Dzingel trade | Toronto Maple Leafs, Sunday February 20

February 20, 2022

General Manager Kyle Dubas discusses the Ilya Lyubushkin and Ryan Dzingel trade that sent Nick Ritchie to the Arizona Coyotes following Toronto Maple Leafs practice Sunday afternoon.