Prospect Info: Leafs' 2019 4th-round (#124 via STL) -- C Nicholas Abruzzese --Chicago USHL - 5' 9"/ 160

[Menzinger]

2017 was a Hunter draft and I don't think it is really salvageable at this point. Liljegren was good. Scott, Rasanen, O'Connell and Kara are total wildcard long shots right now and the other two are gone already.

2018 was Dubas having like 3 weeks with the board and mostly just taking guys his scouts were familiar with. Neither were particularly deep drafts in general though, so 2018 was decent for what was out there. Durzi was able to be used as a trade chip, SDA, Stotts, Kral, Hollowell and Holmberg all look decent enough that you may be able to get one or two NHLers out of that group. If we got Sandin, Durzi plus one or two more NHLers out of that draft, that is a major win, even if you disregard the lack of time with the board. If we get another 2 or 3 NHLers out of 2019 as well, which I think is possible between Kokkonen, Robertson, Abramov, Abruzzese and Koster, then we are in a really good spot.

2020 will be interesting. We don't have a 1st or a 3rd but we have a ton of late round picks. This draft is not as deep as many say it is but a smart drafter can likely get a number of Abramov and Abruzzese type prospects in the 4-7 rounds.

Yep. Im expecting the Leafs fo keep all those late picks too (have seen some folsk speculating they may package them to move up which imo isnt happening) .


I liked what the current scouting guys did in 2019

 

[nuck]

I still don't really like it.

Robertson has been a revelation but aside from that I just don't think we're picking up a lot of guys who we can slot into the lineup.

Hopefully Abramov turns into something, but hard to know what you have in a Q scorer (i.e. will he be a Kucherov or a Timashov?). Guess we will have a better idea when he graduates to the AHL.

Abruzzese - not excited. Wait and see.

Not expecting 5'9" defensemen like Koster to play any role with the Leafs unless we found a Torey Krug unexpectedly. Wait and see.

I heard people were high on Kokkonen earlier in the year, so I guess we'll wait and see with him.

Right now we are just able to get a handle on the 13 and 14 drafts with Johnsson and Engvall only arriving in the last two years. I am more disappointed with 2015 but if they got a 100pt forward and a steady top 4 D man it is still a year most teams never get. You need 5 years at least I think. As far as 5'9" D, yeah they went nuts with all the little guys but big guys who can't play are not any more useful. Not sure how you can't like Abruzzese after the D+1 he just had. Sure he is a huge question mark but thats pick #124, so he is on a steep growth path so far.

 

[Stephen]

Right now we are just able to get a handle on the 13 and 14 drafts with Johnsson and Engvall only arriving in the last two years. I am more disappointed with 2015 but if they got a 100pt forward and a steady top 4 D man it is still a year most teams never get. You need 5 years at least I think. As far as 5'9" D, yeah they went nuts with all the little guys but big guys who can't play are not any more useful. Not sure how you can't like Abruzzese after the D+1 he just had. Sure he is a huge question mark but thats pick #124, so he is on a steep growth path so far.

For me, it boils down to two things.

One, I agree that the draft is a crap shoot, and at that draft position, you're doing well if a player materializes as anything. But that said, even if all goes well with his development, what would be the qualitative difference between a peak Abruzzese vs a dime a dozen Petan, Malgin, Timashov, Brooks, Bracco, etc? I guess what I'm trying to say is with the high end skill we already have, getting a cast of skilled but non high end guys isn't the best way to insulate them. It's just not a particularly valuable player type.

Second, an organization has to target players who can be useful assets that can be used throughout the lineup. The Rangers and Blue Jackets draft a lot of goalies, and they're rewarded with a deep system with a lot of good goalies. Teams like the Blues, Bruins and Kings look for a lot of big defensemen, and traditionally they develop them well. San Jose develops a lot of big body utility forwards who can skate.

 

[4thline]

For me, it boils down to two things.

One, I agree that the draft is a crap shoot, and at that draft position, you're doing well if a player materializes as anything. But that said, even if all goes well with his development, what would be the qualitative difference between a peak Abruzzese vs a dime a dozen Petan, Malgin, Timashov, Brooks, Bracco, etc? I guess what I'm trying to say is with the high end skill we already have, getting a cast of skilled but non high end guys isn't the best way to insulate them. It's just not a particularly valuable player type.

Well having a Gaudreau emerge would be valuable to the team yes?

 

[Stephen]

Well having a Gaudreau emerge would be valuable to the team yes?

The Chinese Farmer in me says "maybe." The amount of non Gaudreau's you'd likely have to go through to audition to finally find Gaudreau is an investment in roster spots. And the final pay off in actually finding a Gaudreau doesn't even fill out any needs.

 

[nuck]

For me, it boils down to two things.

One, I agree that the draft is a crap shoot, and at that draft position, you're doing well if a player materializes as anything. But that said, even if all goes well with his development, what would be the qualitative difference between a peak Abruzzese vs a dime a dozen Petan, Malgin, Timashov, Brooks, Bracco, etc? I guess what I'm trying to say is with the high end skill we already have, getting a cast of skilled but non high end guys isn't the best way to insulate them. It's just not a particularly valuable player type.

Second, an organization has to target players who can be useful assets that can be used throughout the lineup. The Rangers and Blue Jackets draft a lot of goalies, and they're rewarded with a deep system with a lot of good goalies. Teams like the Blues, Bruins and Kings look for a lot of big defensemen, and traditionally they develop them well. San Jose develops a lot of big body utility forwards who can skate.

Abuzzese has a long road ahead of him but so did St Louis and Gaudreau. He will probably be be a Petan because most players are not Gaudreaus but I think you still have to look at him as a 124 OA with high potential because of how he well has performed compared to all the other D+1s outside of the much higher picks. I get that you would rather he was a power forward or a shutdown D because they are swimming in danglers (me too) but he could turn out to be the best 4th round in the draft so thats okay. He could turn out to be the reason they can move one of the current wingers in a few years and they need that option.

I think what you really want is for them to bias towards some harder players to develop and I agree but part of getting there is making your system deep enough by going BPA with the higher picks. I don't know is Dubas is necessarily inclined to start going hard for power guys like Anaheim has recently done but they are probably where they can finally look at that. Simply drafting pure BPA and trading for them need is a mirage because nobody will ever trade a quality power forward or a punishing shutdown D man without completely scalping you.

It wasn't that long ago they had almost no home grown top 6 talent, and now they have more than ever. They are an offense rich team that needs the right kind supporting players, and drafting is cheaper than signing. The only problem is they are ready to win now. I would love for them to start drafting the sort of players that aren't in their system but that doesn't help them next season. Kyle please start drafting for some power and some grit but also, Kyle please trade for some power or some grit

 

[stickty111]

The 2019 draft has some of the best promise you can have after 1 year. Things are looking good to get at least a couple NHL players from the draft. Also just because it didn't work with certain type of players, doesn't mean you should stop drafting them. If you look at it, drafting Abruzzese should have nothing to do with the other kinds of players drafted.

 

[Fogelhund]

The Chinese Farmer in me says "maybe." The amount of non Gaudreau's you'd likely have to go through to audition to finally find Gaudreau is an investment in roster spots. And the final pay off in actually finding a Gaudreau doesn't even fill out any needs.

It gives us cap flexibility... the guy comes in cheap, and perhaps replaces a more expensive guy. That's valuable. Of course, he could just end up being a good Marlies guy too, and that also has some value.

 

[Kamiccolo]

Empty truculence can be found for cheap, like Kyle Clifford. If you want a big player with a mean streak who can actually play meaningful minutes you pretty much have to draft him.

Yep. I'd trade almost anyone outside of Matthews, Nylander, Marner, Tavares and Rielly for a guy like Wilson, skill level be damned.

 

[Stephen]

That's secondary though. You also can't predict how players will gel. You can have two best friends and then some off-ice drama occurs. Makes no sense to build your team off social science.

Go as skilled as you can. Tweak where needed later. Truculence can be found for cheap.

I think drafting for character and “intangibles” is a real thing though. If you look back at the Smythe era Leafs they didn’t just carelessly collect high end practice talent, but promoted a team first two way, tough brand of hockey.

If you look at the Toronto Raptors they aren’t going out and just trying to assemble a team full of super athletic guys who can dunk either. There’s an emphasis on two way play, high end compete and character and versatility.

 

[stickty111]

I think drafting for character and “intangibles” is a real thing though. If you look back at the Smythe era Leafs they didn’t just carelessly collect high end practice talent, but promoted a team first two way, tough brand of hockey.

If you look at the Toronto Raptors they aren’t going out and just trying to assemble a team full of super athletic guys who can dunk either. There’s an emphasis on two way play, high end compete and character and versatility.

Good thing the Leafs are doing the same thing. What makes you think the Leafs draft picks don't have character? Based on your description, Biggs would be something you like.
If you look at the Burke era, he carelessly collected big good guys which pleased a certain few. Dubas has got character players with skills and ability. The Raptors picks are similar to what Dubas did. Siakam was known as someone with a raw skillset, and he is now a star in the league.

 

[Menzinger]

I think drafting for character and “intangibles” is a real thing though. If you look back at the Smythe era Leafs they didn’t just carelessly collect high end practice talent, but promoted a team first two way, tough brand of hockey.

If you look at the Toronto Raptors they aren’t going out and just trying to assemble a team full of super athletic guys who can dunk either. There’s an emphasis on two way play, high end compete and character and versatility.

Imo "two way play"falls under skill.

I think the recent drafts seemed to have taken some "good character" guys too Sandin stood out immediately as a guy who seems mature beyond his young age.

 

[Stephen]

Imo "two way play"falls under skill.

I think the recent drafts seemed to have taken some "good character" guys too Sandin stood out immediately as a guy who seems mature beyond his young age.

Feels like the Dubas braintrust drafts and acquires talent that would fit under good practice skills category in high quantity. Smooth handles, good skating, etc. as a basis. In theory should translate to guys who can execute plays with more proficiency, but when they don’t seem to be looking quite as closely for size or character or any of the grit elements that are hard to quantify you may get a lot of guys who don’t fit roles.

And to harp on a guy like Malgin, he looks pretty good out there from a mechanic standpoint. Skates well; brings pretty good puck handling ability, good energy, isn’t even afraid to go into traffic areas. But he isn’t very effective.

 

[Stephen]

Good thing the Leafs are doing the same thing. What makes you think the Leafs draft picks don't have character? Based on your description, Biggs would be something you like.
If you look at the Burke era, he carelessly collected big good guys which pleased a certain few. Dubas has got character players with skills and ability. The Raptors picks are similar to what Dubas did. Siakam was known as someone with a raw skillset, and he is now a star in the league.

Tyler Biggs isn’t the only player with size who has ever been drafted in the first round.

And it’s abundantly clear that the Leafs lack maturity and character on their team. Character teams with maturity simply do not play the way the Maple Leafs did in 2019-20.

 

[stickty111]

Tyler Biggs isn’t the only player with size who has ever been drafted in the first round.

And it’s abundantly clear that the Leafs lack maturity and character on their team. Character teams with maturity simply do not play the way the Maple Leafs did in 2019-20.

Not sure what the main roster has to do with drafting. I mean Raptors were like the Leafs too. Pretty amazing what winning can do to a team mentally.
Your right he wasn't. However those big character players who also bring skill are tough to find.

 

[kb]

Not sure what the main roster has to do with drafting. I mean Raptors were like the Leafs too. Pretty amazing what winning can do to a team mentally.
Your right he wasn't. However those big character players who also bring skill are tough to find.

Or they grow into those types of players. It took Yzerman awhile to figure that out.

 

[Menzinger]

Feels like the Dubas braintrust drafts and acquires talent that would fit under good practice skills category in high quantity. Smooth handles, good skating, etc. as a basis. In theory should translate to guys who can execute plays with more proficiency, but when they don’t seem to be looking quite as closely for size or character or any of the grit elements that are hard to quantify you may get a lot of guys who don’t fit roles.

And to harp on a guy like Malgin, he looks pretty good out there from a mechanic standpoint. Skates well; brings pretty good puck handling ability, good energy, isn’t even afraid to go into traffic areas. But he isn’t very effective.

Imo those issues are best solved via free agency or trades. That way you get a knowm product.

At the draft, especially longer term projects im looking at skillset and chances for "booms" in development. Beacuse at the end of the day, hard work and tenacity isnt enough to turn a prospect into a pro

Imo the Leafs took a fair number of bigger bodied grinder types in 2016 amd 2017 drafts and i have low confidenece any of them will emd up long term nhl regulars, even Korshkov.

That doesnt mean a team should outright ignore non-skill related traits at the draft though

 

[ULF_55]

Nick Abruzzese and Matthew Knies officially named to US Men’s Olympic roster

The two Toronto prospects join 13 other NCAA players on the United States Olympic team. Knies, who’s playing in his first year at the University of Minnesota is averaging a point per game this season (20P in 20GP). The 19-year-old was picked in the second round, 57th overall, in the 2021 NHL Draft by the Maple Leafs.

Abruzzese missed all of last season rehabbing from hip surgery. This season, he’s returned with a bang, scoring 21 points in 13 games (5G, 16A). The 22-year-old was drafted by the Maple Leafs at 124th overall in the 2019 NHL Entry Draft.

 

[Menzinger]

Looks like a smart bet so far

 

[aingefan]

Wonder if he’s up for signing an ELC after the Olympics.