LD Anton Silayev - Torpedo Nizhny Novgorod, KHL (2024, 10th, NJ)

[Garl]

You’re backtracking so hard man just watch the player play if you’re gonna have such a hard stuck opinion on a player

Dont you think it is somewhat illogical to give advice like "just watch him play" when he literally played 6 games? I mean, did you watch him? Others here? Right now, people drooling over him have his eliteprospects page as the source of their excitement. I refuse to think that you guys watched more than 1 or 2 games of this young gentleman.
So, sure, I will try, hopefully, you will join me. And I dont know, after 20 games we can project on where he goes in the draft.

If he were assigned to a strictly defensive role, it's possible. In the recent past Romanov and Simashev were in the same situation at one point in their careers.

Both Romanov and Simashev are/were on stack teams with a rather defensive minded coaches.

 

[Garl]

Another note
In SHL the record holder for D-1 year is............. Adam Larsson. He had more points as a 17 yo than Forsberg, Naslund, Sedins, Hedman, Dahlin etc. And I would say, way more points, he had 17, and the 2nd best is Art Ross winner Daniel Sedin with 13.

Still a mistery, how did it happen, Adam is a smart player and has great passing but still an anomally. Funny, but was he a bit older, there was a good chance he would have went 1st overall in 2010.

 

[ijuka]

Do you seriously think I didn't know that ?

Btw, the KHL best result for U18 dmen is 10 points per season.

This literally is what you said. "best result for U18 dmen". Tarasenko is not a defenseman. I said you're wrong, and that the best result for U18 dmen was 2 points before this.

I have no idea what you know and don't know, I'm not a mind reader. However, if you did know that Tarasenko was not a defenseman, I'm not sure why you would count his scoring record as the highest one for defensemen. So you made a mistake one way or another, and so I corrected it.

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

1. Decreased? Jokerit and Riga out Lada in? Is that what you mean by decrease?
2.Level of russian hockey is significantly higher? Thats why 37yo Radulov is still the best player, sure
3.Usually, we knew about russian top talent before they moved to NA. I mean, there are kid tournaments in Russia you know

1. A 23-team KHL is more homogeneous than a 29-team KHL. Just as the level of the NHL declines as the number of teams increases.

2. In depth, the level of Russian hockey has increased significantly compared to 10 years ago. Radulov is a great offensive player. Until 2021, he was very productive in the NHL. His hockey remained.

He's still an elite player in the KHL and that's normal, but there are a lot of players younger than him in the NHL, many more of them than there were 10 years ago. No, Radulov would not be selected for the Russian national team if there were to be a tournament with the best.

3. Oh well and who do you know ? Especially among goalkeepers and defenders... make me laugh.

4. Your obsession against Russian and Belarusian players is noticeable throughout the forum.
You haven't finished crying because it seems that the level of these two nations is on the rise.

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

This literally is what you said. "best result for U18 dmen". Tarasenko is not a defenseman. I said you're wrong, and that the best result for U18 dmen was 2 points before this.

I have no idea what you know and don't know, I'm not a mind reader. However, if you did know that Tarasenko was not a defenseman, I'm not sure why you would count his scoring record as the highest one for defensemen. So you made a mistake one way or another, and so I corrected it.

Another user was talking about 10 points, I explained to you why he was talking about 10 points. With a little insight, you should be able to imagine that a guy who strives to know every player in a draft class knows a 32-year-old elite NHL player who won a Stanley Cup, who was on the cover of NHL 17...

Who doesn't know that Tarasenko is not a defender on this site, seriously ?

 

[Garl]

1. A 23-team KHL is more homogeneous than a 29-team KHL. Just as the level of the NHL declines as the number of teams increases.

2. In depth, the level of Russian hockey has increased significantly compared to 10 years ago. Radulov is a great offensive player. Until 2021, he was very productive in the NHL. His hockey remained.

He's still an elite player in the KHL and that's normal, but there are a lot of players younger than him in the NHL, many more of them than there were 10 years ago. No, Radulov would not be selected for the Russian national team if there were to be a tournament with the best.

3. Oh well and who do you know ? Especially among goalkeepers and defenders... make me laugh.

4. Your obsession against Russian and Belarusian players is noticeable throughout the forum.
You haven't finished crying because it seems that the level of these two nations is on the rise.

1. Hmm, ok. You are using my pro SHL and pro NL argument, it's good, at least somebody gets it. However this 29 vs 23, lets evaluate. The 29 team league had Jokerit, Medvescak, Dinamo Riga and Slovan. Those 4 are now gone but their presense in the league had no effect on the talent pool. If anything, it kinda helped, since they brought in some good unknown imports from time to time. The fact that they are not in KHL doesn't improve the league, since the players from those teams were not redistributed to KHL and those teams didn't use russians at all.
So then it is 25 teams then vs 23 now. Not much of a difference and your argument is not very strong anymore. Now, you add european exodus, more russians than ever during KHL era in NHL/AHL, import limit down to 3 instead of 5(or even 7 for some special cases). This is objective. I can add subjective stuff, that current generation of players in is general worse than previous, but thats my opinion.

2. No it didn't. Soviet or early post-Soviet trained generation is gone, it's last remnants remained top players in the league until they were like 40(Mozyakin, Zaripov, Morozov, Afinogenov, Datsyuk, Medvedev, Nikulin, Semin etc)

3. Sergachyov, Provorov, Gulyaev. Enough?

4.My obsession, even if it does exist is my personal demon. In an argument consistent reference to stuff like that is just a genetic fallacy. I can also play that game, so your obsession with russian and belorussian prospects and continious drooling over them and overrating of them comes from the fact that you are a demoralised frenchman with a pessimistic antiwestern worldview, which prompts you to think that since Russia and Belarus are much more "healthy" than the West, their rise is inevitable.

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

1. Hmm, ok. You are using my pro SHL and pro NL argument, it's good, at least somebody gets it. However this 29 vs 23, lets evaluate. The 29 team league had Jokerit, Medvescak, Dinamo Riga and Slovan. Those 4 are now gone but their presense in the league had no effect on the talent pool. If anything, it kinda helped, since they brought in some good unknown imports from time to time. The fact that they are not in KHL doesn't improve the league, since the players from those teams were not redistributed to KHL and those teams didn't use russians at all.
So then it is 25 teams then vs 23 now. Not much of a difference and your argument is not very strong anymore. Now, you add european exodus, more russians than ever during KHL era in NHL/AHL, import limit down to 3 instead of 5(or even 7 for some special cases). This is objective. I can add subjective stuff, that current generation of players in is general worse than previous, but thats my opinion.

2. No it didn't. Soviet or early post-Soviet trained generation is gone, it's last remnants remained top players in the league until they were like 40(Mozyakin, Zaripov, Morozov, Afinogenov, Datsyuk, Medvedev, Nikulin, Semin etc)

3. Sergachyov, Provorov, Gulyaev. Enough?

4.My obsession, even if it does exist is my personal demon. In an argument consistent reference to stuff like that is just a genetic fallacy. I can also play that game, so your obsession with russian and belorussian prospects and continious drooling over them and overrating of them comes from the fact that you are a demoralised frenchman with a pessimistic antiwestern worldview, which prompts you to think that since Russia and Belarus are much more "healthy" than the West, their rise is inevitable.

1 Even with the number of teams, KHL is above SHL and NLA in terms of level.

2 Number of Russian players in the NHL in 2012/13 : 30
Number of Russian players in the NHL in 2022/23 : 63

As you are predictable, you will say something false like: KHL kept the best Russians 10 years ago.

So, take the draft : Russian hockey has returned to its heyday between 1992 and 2003.

3 Yes and now who do you know? That's what I was saying. You didn't know Simashev a year ago and yet 6th...

4 I don't have a preference for particular countries. I am more attentive and attached to the performances of the Czechs, Slovaks and Quebecers. Afterwards it is off-topic and it is precisely the heart of your hatred for Russia and Belarus. Countries that don't match your dogma.

If that wasn't the case, you'd be like everyone else about Anton Silayev. Excited. But you are here to belittle the KHL and take an unfavorable position.

Barring injury, the guy will be very high in 2024. That’s already a certainty.

You are ridiculous with your Michkov, Silayev, Levshunov "are overrated"...

 

[GermanSpitfire]

Silayev will be a fascinating case study when it comes to prospect evaluation.

We have never seen this before, a 6’7“ defender with such an insane start to the season in the KHL after never really showing much offence at any level until now.

I’m in the camp of wait and see, he has the measurables to be a high selection, and thus far his production has been staggering but it’s too small of a sample size to say he’s a top-10 selection yet.

There is lots to improve on with his game, here is a @dyldude clip that highlights him in not such a great light.

Wait and see for now with me.

 

[cg98]

1 Even with the number of teams, KHL is above SHL and NLA in terms of level.

2 Number of Russian players in the NHL in 2012/13 : 30
Number of Russian players in the NHL in 2022/23 : 63

As you are predictable, you will say something false like: KHL kept the best Russians 10 years ago.

So, take the draft : Russian hockey has returned to its heyday between 1992 and 2003.

3 Yes and now who do you know? That's what I was saying.

4 I don't have a preference for particular countries. I am more attentive and attached to the performances of the Czechs, Slovaks and Quebecers. Afterwards it is off-topic and it is precisely the heart of your hatred for Russia and Belarus. Countries that don't match your dogma.

If that wasn't the case, you'd be like everyone else about Anton Silayev. Excited. But you are here to belittle the KHL and take an unfavorable position.

Barring injury, the guy will be very high in 2024. That’s already a certainty.

You are ridiculous with your Michkov, Silayev, Levshunov "are overrated"...

Some other posted from here said hes been shitting on Russian-Belarusian players on other Russian hockey forums since like 2008. If thats true its extremely insane and pathetic that one would spend well over 15 years doing this.

I dont ignore him just to see what other outlandish things he comes up with that can easily be debunked and dunked on later. In the Michkov and Simashev threads he’s added absolutely nothing of discussion value and now he’s going to stink up this one too. Lol. Shame really.

 

[Garl]

Some other posted from here said hes been shitting on Russian-Belarusian players on other Russian hockey forums since like 2008. If thats true its extremely insane and pathetic that one would spend well over 15 years doing this.

I dont ignore him just to see what other outlandish things he comes up with that can easily be debunked and dunked on later. In the Michkov and Simashev threads he’s added absolutely nothing of discussion value and now he’s going to stink up this one too. Lol. Shame really.

In this case, you can easily name the prospects that I was "shitting on" who turned out great?

 

[Garl]

1 Even with the number of teams, KHL is above SHL and NLA in terms of level.

2 Number of Russian players in the NHL in 2012/13 : 30
Number of Russian players in the NHL in 2022/23 : 63

As you are predictable, you will say something false like: KHL kept the best Russians 10 years ago.

So, take the draft : Russian hockey has returned to its heyday between 1992 and 2003.

3 Yes and now who do you know? That's what I was saying. You didn't know Simashev a year ago and yet 6th...

4 I don't have a preference for particular countries. I am more attentive and attached to the performances of the Czechs, Slovaks and Quebecers. Afterwards it is off-topic and it is precisely the heart of your hatred for Russia and Belarus. Countries that don't match your dogma.

If that wasn't the case, you'd be like everyone else about Anton Silayev. Excited. But you are here to belittle the KHL and take an unfavorable position.

Barring injury, the guy will be very high in 2024. That’s already a certainty.

You are ridiculous with your Michkov, Silayev, Levshunov "are overrated"...

1. Based on nothing but your pro russian bias. There is a reason why an Allsvenskan reject had like 30 pts in 35 games in KHL
2. Well, yeah KHL was a much better league back then, theh were able to sign prime Kovalchuk and keep prime Radulov in the league
Russian factor was a thing back then, thats how Panarin went undrafted for example
3.Simashev was considered to be one of the top 05 defensemen in Russia. I mean, late bloomers exist, sure, whats your point?
4.I am not "attacking Silayev". I have only said that it is premature to pin a guy in TOP 10 of the draft based on 4 games played. It is you, who decided to carry his stigma from other threads instead of just agreeing with common sense and letting things happen. If he keeps it up, he will be a Top 5 pick, maybe a 1st overall, I think I even said this exact thing.
I never mentioned Levshunov at all. Michkov I said is a great talent, I said his ceiling is somebody like Kaprizov, but maybe more of a goalscorer. What is overrated is not his talent, but his draft season. And it is not always that a talent realizes his potential. David Rundblad is a great talent, Mattias Ekholm is not.
Silayev is overrated at the moment, because people are just stat watching. Now, when we will have a bigger sample we can talk.

Now, I say, lets wait 20-30 games. We shall see, and maybe there will be no need for argument

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

1. Based on nothing but your pro russian bias. There is a reason why an Allsvenskan reject had like 30 pts in 35 games in KHL
2. Well, yeah KHL was a much better league back then, theh were able to sign prime Kovalchuk and keep prime Radulov in the league
Russian factor was a thing back then, thats how Panarin went undrafted for example
3.Simashev was considered to be one of the top 05 defensemen in Russia. I mean, late bloomers exist, sure, whats your point?
4.I am not "attacking Silayev". I have only said that it is premature to pin a guy in TOP 10 of the draft based on 4 games played. It is you, who decided to carry his stigma from other threads instead of just agreeing with common sense and letting things happen. If he keeps it up, he will be a Top 5 pick, maybe a 1st overall, I think I even said this exact thing.
I never mentioned Levshunov at all. Michkov I said is a great talent, I said his ceiling is somebody like Kaprizov, but maybe more of a goalscorer. What is overrated is not his talent, but his draft season. And it is not always that a talent realizes his potential. David Rundblad is a great talent, Mattias Ekholm is not.
Silayev is overrated at the moment, because people are just stat watching. Now, when we will have a bigger sample we can talk.

Now, I say, lets wait 20-30 games. We shall see, and maybe there will be no need for argument

1 In general, players produce more difficult in the KHL, but points can't tell the whole story. There are many players who produce more in the NHL than in the KHL. The advantage of Sweden or Switzerland for a pro is that the trips are shorter but generally, KHL is seen as a bigger challenge. Name me a player who plays in the SHL or NLA because the championship is tougher and more prestigious than the KHL...

2 One player does not affect the level of a league. The national base makes the difference. No match between the level of current national players compared to 10 years ago.

3 My point is that you don't know of any Russian defensemen or goalies for the next few years in the draft.

4 Silayev, Nikishin, Michkov, KHL level... It’s okay, we all understand here.

It has already been said but a 6-7 defenseman who establishes himself in the KHL at 17 years old in a top 4 - this is necessarily a player who will be selected very high. We don't even talk about the points. Even with a collapse in offensive production, he will be top 20 like Mukhamadullin was.

 

[vildurson]

1 In general, players produce more difficult in the KHL, but points can't tell the whole story. There are many players who produce more in the NHL than in the KHL. The advantage of Sweden or Switzerland for a pro is that the trips are shorter but generally, KHL is seen as a bigger challenge. Name me a player who plays in the SHL or NLA because the championship is tougher and more prestigious than the KHL...

2 One player does not affect the level of a league. The national base makes the difference. No match between the level of current national players compared to 10 years ago.

3 My point is that you don't know of any Russian defensemen or goalies for the next few years in the draft.

4 Silayev, Nikishin, Michkov, Levshunov, KHL level... It’s okay, we all understand here.

Prestigiousness of KHL pretty much went down to the toilet with the Russian invasion war on Ukraine. Before the war, different thing.

Nobody can't really play there from EU especially if you are close to the borders(most noticeably Finns, Swedes) thanks to sanctions.

Other than that, can we move this thread back to discussion about Silayev?

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

Prestigiousness of KHL pretty much went down to the toilet with the Russian invasion war on Ukraine. Before the war, different thing.

Nobody can't really play there from EU especially if you are close to the borders(most noticeably Finns, Swedes) thanks to sanctions.

Other than that, can we move this thread back to discussion about Silayev

Jokerit was not raising the level of the league. The team never made it past the 2nd round.

There was no star before the war. The league level has not collapsed because there are 30 fewer Swedish players. Their departure is offset by a recession in the number of teams (26 teams in 2021; 23 this year) and the improvement in the level of national players compared to the previous generation. Hrivik and Gernat are top players for SHL and NLA. In the KHL, there are better than them.

Through all the Czech and Slovak players, I perceive the difference in level between the leagues. Compares the level of North American players playing in the KHL compared to SHL or NLA. The KHL group is clearly the best (Alex Galchenyuk, Gemel Smith, Cédric Paquette, Madison Bowey...).

 

[dyldude]

Silayev will be a fascinating case study when it comes to prospect evaluation.

We have never seen this before, a 6’7“ defender with such an insane start to the season in the KHL after never really showing much offence at any level until now.

I’m in the camp of wait and see, he has the measurables to be a high selection, and thus far his production has been staggering but it’s too small of a sample size to say he’s a top-10 selection yet.

There is lots to improve on with his game, here is a @dyldude clip that highlights him in not such a great light.

Wait and see for now with me.

There’s been a lot of ugly plays like this as expected by a 17 year old in a top men’s league. I think the flaws are just as clear as the upside - there’s awesome flashes of activations and obviously the skating is his main selling point, but his sense has seemed low both this year and last and he struggles when trying higher end passes or passing under pressure generally.

His production is impressive, no denying, but it’s easy to get blinded by that. There’s been plenty of talented offensive defensemen in Russia who probably could’ve produced similarly if put in Silayev’s situation, he’s just the first to really get this chance.

I agree that the top-X discussions are a bit out of hand at this point. He’s an interesting player in theory, but I’ve not been swayed enough by his performances or tools to really call him more than a late first, upside kinda player. Similar to that of Owen Pickering in his draft year. Things could change, but right now, the flaws are probably being ignored a bit too much in my opinion.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Silayev will be a fascinating case study when it comes to prospect evaluation.

We have never seen this before, a 6’7“ defender with such an insane start to the season in the KHL after never really showing much offence at any level until now.

I’m in the camp of wait and see, he has the measurables to be a high selection, and thus far his production has been staggering but it’s too small of a sample size to say he’s a top-10 selection yet.

There is lots to improve on with his game, here is a @dyldude clip that highlights him in not such a great light.

Wait and see for now with me.

Not that you or he is wrong, but I’ve seen that same move happen to Chara so many times, and he’s one of the best players of his era. Big defensemen can sometimes look like complete turnstiles.

 

[barriers]

 

[waitin425]

I can't wait to see this silly boy manning the point in the WJHC, with Matvei and Demi-god scoring at will. One of the most exciting Russian World Junior Teams in a long time.





















wait















Nevermind.

 

[Hanji]

There’s been a lot of ugly plays like this as expected by a 17 year old in a top men’s league. I think the flaws are just as clear as the upside - there’s awesome flashes of activations and obviously the skating is his main selling point, but his sense has seemed low both this year and last and he struggles when trying higher end passes or passing under pressure generally.

His production is impressive, no denying, but it’s easy to get blinded by that. There’s been plenty of talented offensive defensemen in Russia who probably could’ve produced similarly if put in Silayev’s situation, he’s just the first to really get this chance.

I agree that the top-X discussions are a bit out of hand at this point. He’s an interesting player in theory, but I’ve not been swayed enough by his performances or tools to really call him more than a late first, upside kinda player. Similar to that of Owen Pickering in his draft year. Things could change, but right now, the flaws are probably being ignored a bit too much in my opinion.

at 17? Last year Simashev could likely thrive on the defensive end in Silayev's situation, but offensively? Gulyayev perhaps had the offensively skills but certinly not the physical ability last year.
Another 18:50 TOI vs Salavat. Even +/-, 7 sog.

That's 20 sog in 7 games; including 15 in his last 3.

 

[dyldude]

at 17? Last year Simashev could likely thrive on the defensive end in Silayev's situation, but offensively? Gulyayev perhaps had the offensively skills but certinly not the body, or defensive acumen.
Another 18:50 TOI vs Salavat. Even +/-, 7 sog.

That's 20 sog in 7 games; including 15 in his last 3.

I haven't seen Silayev do anything offensively that Simashev can't? Sure, shots on goal mean he's doing something, but these are mostly low percentage chances, typically just trying to keep the puck in the zone or hope for a re-direct or rebound, it's not exactly a good baseline for what makes a defenseman stand out on the offensive side of things. Simashev is more creative from the OZ blueline when given the freedom to do so and is a crafty playmaker, Silayev is more of a wildcard through very aggressive activations and tons of point shots.

I think you're also underrating Gulyayev's defense and/or maybe even overrating Silayev's? They defend pretty similarly, using their four-way mobility, inviting the carrier to make the decision, and then fly over to close down - Silayev suffocates plays better, Gulyayev has the pace and stickwork to break plays up. Both have their weaknesses, Gulyayev tends to play too passively and Silayev, frankly again, is just sort of a wildcard with his decisions.

Does any of this matter? Not really, we can speculate forever about how players would do in Silayev's position - I think there's a case to be made that Simashev would have looked better if he was playing 20 minutes a game on a team that let him use his tools to their full capabilities, but he didn't, so whatever. They're different players in different situations.

What it all boils down to is this is a player in a unicorn position. Prospects don't get this kind of freedom or playing time in the KHL ever. He has points and you can look at his shot totals or his plus/minus, whatever you want, but looking at the actual player here and what he's doing and his play style, I think a lot of people are jumping the gun and getting September takes out to try to get ahead. Betting on his upside is perfectly reasonable, but he's a project through and through.

 

[hamzarocks]

Pure box score watching on my part but just learned about this guy

17 year old 6'6 ~210 lbs with 6 in 8 KHL games

Absolutely insane to be playing as a 17 year old in the KHL let alone as a big D who looks from the box score to be used on his team quite a bit

Is he the Russian Owen Powers?

Powers is similar size, has great skating fornhis size and nice offensive/defensive combo

 

[vildurson]

Pure box score watching on my part but just learned about this guy

17 year old 6'6 ~210 lbs with 6 in 8 KHL games

Absolutely insane to be playing as a 17 year old in the KHL let alone as a big D who looks from the box score to be used on his team quite a bit

Is he the Russian Owen Powers?

Powers is similar size, has great skating fornhis size and nice offensive/defensive combo

Owen Power was better skater and more offensively talented in his draft year. More like Simon Edvinsson from recent draft picks.

Although both are really not similar anyway when it ocmes to Silayev(based on small sample size so far.)

 

[Tryamkin]

There is no comparison to this player, we’ve never seen one like him. Not saying that he’s destined for greatness, just saying that this is a profile and archetype unlike any other.

 

[lanky]

There is no comparison to this player, we’ve never seen one like him. Not saying that he’s destined for greatness, just saying that this is a profile and archetype unlike any other.

Please elaborate on what makes him unique.
Or do you mean the KHL usage and production is what is unique?

 

[Breakfast of Champs]

Please elaborate on what makes him unique.
Or do you mean the KHL usage and production is what is unique?

I think he means someone who was basically a nobody a few months ago on the draft scene to being projected by some to be a contender for #1 overall this early in their draft year.

Some guys rocket up like Pat Kane or to a lesser extent Hischier but I can't remember the last time a guy went from being on nobody's radar to this and it still be september