Lane Hutson Burgeoning Star Watch

[Luigi Lemieux]

If those passes were going to star players instead of Dvorak, Anderson, and Gallagher he'd have LESS points actually

He'd have the puck less on a good team, only one puck to go around. I remember when Selanne and Kariya signed with Colorado, people thought they'd have (4) 100 point guys. Doesn't work out that way.

 

[bud12]

He'd have the puck less on a good team, only one puck to go around. I remember when Selanne and Kariya signed with Colorado, people thought they'd have (4) 100 point guys. Doesn't work out that way.

Bullshit! Playing on a good team would not decrease his pts production. Just like it didn't with Kovacevic, Lekhonen or Drouin.

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

Bullshit! Playing on a good team would not decrease his pts production. Just like it didn't with Kovacevic, Lekhonen or Drouin.

Believe what you want. I'm rooting for him, he's fun to watch. But he's got a long way to go before being compared to guys like Hughes or Makar.

What makes those guys special is on top of their league leading offense they're among the best at goal suppression as well. They're the reason their teams are good.

 

[spintheblackcircle]

Cool. I guess this thread keeps getting bumped by Montreal fans and I've been imagining it.

This thread is never bumped, it's active every single day. Nobody has to search for the thread.

 

[dgibb10]

Bullshit! Playing on a good team would not decrease his pts production. Just like it didn't with Kovacevic, Lekhonen or Drouin.

All of those guys got increases in role. It doesn't matter if you go from good to bad or bad to good. Increases in role are the biggest drivers or increases in production.

Eg, Monahan getting his minutes and PP usage jacked back up in MTL compared to calgary
Mike Matheson getting his minutes and PP usage jacked up in MTL compared to pitt.

Drouin got 3+ minutes a night and moved onto PP1.
Lehkonen got 6+ minutes a night and moved onto PP1.
Kovy again got a 3+ minute a night boost.

Teams tend to acquire guys they want to fill roles. So logically if a team traded for hutson, they'd give him a big role. But a team that you are just arbitrarily swap him onto does not give any such indicator that they need or want to give such minutes.

It depends on usage.

If a team is putting him on PP1, his points won't go down (although a lot of teams run things through their star forwards rather than dmen, unlike MTL who has basically every touch run through the point).

But the ice time would be very likely to go down on just about any contender you swap him onto.

But also sure, if you only look at guys who's production increased, guys will have their production increase. (MTL has added/lost plenty of guys in the last 4 years, why only mention 3)?

 

[bud12]

Believe what you want. I'm rooting for him, he's fun to watch. But he's got a long way to go before being compared to guys like Hughes or Makar.

What makes those guys special is on top of their league leading offense they're among the best at goal suppression as well. They're the reason their teams are good.

Again, just a proof about how playing on a good team inflate some advance stats. Like it would do with Hutson

All of those guys got increases in role. It doesn't matter if you go from good to bad or bad to good. Increases in role are the biggest drivers or increases in production.

Eg, Monahan getting his minutes and PP usage jacked back up in MTL compared to calgary
Mike Matheson getting his minutes and PP usage jacked up in MTL compared to pitt.

Drouin got 3+ minutes a night and moved onto PP1.
Lehkonen got 6+ minutes a night and moved onto PP1.
Kovy again got a 3+ minute a night boost.

Teams tend to acquire guys they want to fill roles. So logically if a team traded for hutson, they'd give him a big role. But a team that you are just arbitrarily swap him onto does not give any such indicator that they need or want to give such minutes.

It depends on usage.

If a team is putting him on PP1, his points won't go down (although a lot of teams run things through their star forwards rather than dmen, unlike MTL who has basically every touch run through the point).

But the ice time would be very likely to go down on just about any contender you swap him onto.

But also sure, if you only look at guys who's production increased, guys will have their production increase. (MTL has added/lost plenty of guys in the last 4 years, why only mention 3)?

What about their p/60?

 

[Agalloch]

This was an entertaining read. Thanks man

In a thread with some pretty bad takes (many from my fellow Hab fans, including on this page) this somehow stands out

I'm a habs fan BTW, I just don't see Hutson as a future Norris Trophy D-man. Some people are OVERHYPING him big time. He's a good player but never will be a real #1 D on a good team. 40 pts and 3rd D (second pair) on a cup team is really good.

 

[Agalloch]

He'd have the puck less on a good team, only one puck to go around. I remember when Selanne and Kariya signed with Colorado, people thought they'd have (4) 100 point guys. Doesn't work out that way.

I agree, if Hutson stays #1-2 d-man in icetime for the Habs, we will never win anything. That guy is playing as much as possible right now...

 

[dgibb10]

Again, just a proof about how playing on a good team inflate some advance stats. Like it would do with Hutson

What about their p/60?

Arturri Lehkonen's advanced stats prior to trade.

Roles change, driving production.

And of course, some players adjust differently in different situations.

Certain players are better built (for their own production) to be "the guy" and can't function as well as a secondary piece or in a smaller role.

Some guys in a small role can't handle when that role is expanded or made harder.

Some guys in a small role only get more chance to shine when placed in a bigger one.

Some guys are built to be complementary pieces and shine best when placed around better guys.

Some guys are built to hold strong against tough competition in a tough role. It doesn't mean they would dominate in an easier role, because they may lack that skillset.

Others are built to dominate in an easier role, and may struggle if placed in a role where they are asked to do differently.


Hutson's playstyle, at least currently, is heavily predicated around being "the guy". He's not the type of player I would expect to benefit from being a complimentary piece on a contender.

I also noticed you mentioned a lot of "change of scenery" where teams saw an underutilized or misutilized piece and have utilized them differently to great success.


Are there situations that would be better suited for Hutson on good teams? Yes
Are there situations that would be worse suited for Hutson on good teams? Also yes.

And it's fairly weak to apply it as a blanket "this guy would be this much better on good team". Because again, you could apply that logic to every player on MTL to justify them being better than each of their respective counterparts on a good team, and come to the conclusion that MTLs players are all somehow better despite overall combining to be significantly worse.


If you have a specific way Hutson is being underutilized in MTL and a specific change of situation that would maximize his effectiveness, let's hear it?

For example, looking at NJD/MTL for examples I know:

I think MTLs PP is very well suited to hutson. They have 2 snipers in Laine and Cole, and let things run through him. It's an excellent fit to maximize his utility there

On NJD, while they have a better PP overall, they lack those snipers or that shooting threat. What they DO have is an existing engine in Jack and Bratt. Dougie hamilton IS that shooting threat, making him more valuable to that power play than luke. If I were to pick which of the 2 NJD dmen would be more effective on MTL's PP however? It would be Luke without a doubt.

 

[dgibb10]

Again, just a proof about how playing on a good team inflate some advance stats. Like it would do with Hutson

What about their p/60?

To continue on above.

tbh, outside of sell high scenarios (taking advantage of a bad GM), players SHOULD be improving when traded/signed

A good GM should be acquiring a guy who is underutilized or misutilized who's talents and skillset could be better maximized in this system. (eg, NJD acquiring Noesen to be a netfront/puck retreival PP guy).

And a good GM should be sending out guys who are not great fits in the system, who will then improve as they go to a place that is better suited to maximize their abilities.

 

[Gravity]

I'm a habs fan BTW, I just don't see Hutson as a future Norris Trophy D-man. Some people are OVERHYPING him big time. He's a good player but never will be a real #1 D on a good team. 40 pts and 3rd D (second pair) on a cup team is really good.

He'll probably eclipse 40 points in his rookie season.....

 

[Frank Drebin]

This thread is never bumped, it's active every single day. Nobody has to search for the thread.

replace bumped with kept active and re read what I said...

ps. you're doing it right now.

 

[bud12]

Arturri Lehkonen's advanced stats prior to trade.View attachment 945774

Roles change, driving production.

And of course, some players adjust differently in different situations.

Certain players are better built (for their own production) to be "the guy" and can't function as well as a secondary piece or in a smaller role.

Some guys in a small role can't handle when that role is expanded or made harder.

Some guys in a small role only get more chance to shine when placed in a bigger one.

Some guys are built to be complementary pieces and shine best when placed around better guys.

Some guys are built to hold strong against tough competition in a tough role. It doesn't mean they would dominate in an easier role, because they may lack that skillset.

Others are built to dominate in an easier role, and may struggle if placed in a role where they are asked to do differently.


Hutson's playstyle, at least currently, is heavily predicated around being "the guy". He's not the type of player I would expect to benefit from being a complimentary piece on a contender.

I also noticed you mentioned a lot of "change of scenery" where teams saw an underutilized or misutilized piece and have utilized them differently to great success.


Are there situations that would be better suited for Hutson on good teams? Yes
Are there situations that would be worse suited for Hutson on good teams? Also yes.

And it's fairly weak to apply it as a blanket "this guy would be this much better on good team". Because again, you could apply that logic to every player on MTL to justify them being better than each of their respective counterparts on a good team, and come to the conclusion that MTLs players are all somehow better despite overall combining to be significantly worse.


If you have a specific way Hutson is being underutilized in MTL and a specific change of situation that would maximize his effectiveness, let's hear it?

For example, looking at NJD/MTL for examples I know:

I think MTLs PP is very well suited to hutson. They have 2 snipers in Laine and Cole, and let things run through him. It's an excellent fit to maximize his utility there

On NJD, while they have a better PP overall, they lack those snipers or that shooting threat. What they DO have is an existing engine in Jack and Bratt. Dougie hamilton IS that shooting threat, making him more valuable to that power play than luke. If I were to pick which of the 2 NJD dmen would be more effective on MTL's PP however? It would be Luke without a doubt.

Have their p/60 dropped/stagned/increased ?

 

[dgibb10]

Have their p/60 dropped/stagned/increased ?

Kovacevic went from 0.9 p/60 last year to 0.98 so far this year.

Lehkonen's dropped from his peak in MTL of 2.22 that year, but outside of that high year and a low year the year before, Lehkonen has consistently been in the 1.7-2 range both in MTL and Col

Drouin was around 2 in his time in MTL outside of when he could not BURY a goal to save his life in the final year there. He is still around 2 in Col. Outside of shooting better than the ridiculously unlucky numbers of like 3% in 22-23 and 20-21, his production really isn't that different.

 

[bud12]

Kovacevic went from 0.9 p/60 last year to 0.98 so far this year.

Lehkonen's dropped from his peak in MTL of 2.22 that year, but outside of that high year and a low year the year before, Lehkonen has consistently been in the 1.7-2 range both in MTL and Col

Drouin was around 2 in his time in MTL outside of when he could not BURY a goal to save his life in the final year there. He is still around 2 in Col. Outside of shooting better than the ridiculously unlucky numbers of like 3% in 22-23 and 20-21, his production really isn't that different.

View attachment 945785

Thank you! So none of them decreased. In fact, overall, they all increased.

 

[TBF1972]

I don't know what's going to happen, I'm just stating the facts we have now. Hutson scored his first goal, almost scored again, you'd think this is a boost for a guy like him, we'll see. If Celebrini were to get hurt again, would you then consider him injury prone or "freak accident", lot of moving parts happening.

then i have fact for you. hutson missed 162 nhl games since being drafted.

 

[JD1]

My god. 89 pages on Lane Hutson. -14 on the worst defensive team in hockey.

Can we hold off until he's done something

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

I learned that if he played on a better team with better players he would have less points than now playing half his shifts with Newhook Anderson Dvorak Gallagher and Armia nice

 

[Quinning]

Many people here are clearly too young to remember what Sens fans were like about Erik Karlsson, before his 90+ point seasons.

 

[Monsieur Miz]

Is this thread going to go on until the dude's career is over? Like what the f*** is this?

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

Many people here are clearly too young to remember what Sens fans were like about Erik Karlsson, before his 90+ point seasons.

And what Karlsson haters were like his whole career

 

[spintheblackcircle]

replace bumped with kept active and re read what I said...

ps. you're doing it right now.

I actually want him to be great, I’m a fan of United States hockey internationally, so of course I want him develop.

 

[Haatley]

Quinn was coniderably poorer defensively than Lane in his rookie year.

Based on what?

 

[MVP Zacha]

Is this thread going to go on until the dude's career is over? Like what the f*** is this?

Because some people think he only looks good because he is on a terrible team (weird take) and Habs fans have already sent his sweater to the Hall of Fame. There is no in-between apparently.

 

[dgibb10]

I learned that if he played on a better team with better players he would have less points than now playing half his shifts with Newhook Anderson Dvorak Gallagher and Armia nice

A shift with those forwards provides more opportunity to score than not getting a shift at all.

The way Hutson plays isn't exactly conducive to a guy who's production would benefit from being a complimentary piece on a better team.

Different cores aren't generally going to let the entire offense run through Hutson while he's out there the way MTL does, or let him hold the puck as long as he does.

Which I think would be good for him to realize. The more he's played within the flow of offense in MTL rather than trying to play hero puck, the better things would go. It would hurt his point production, but likely make him a better player in the long run.

Thank you! So none of them decreased. In fact, overall, they all increased.

Sure, if you willfully ignore the fact that 2.22 for Lehkonen his last year in MTL is a decent amount higher than what he has done in Col.