Proposal: Laine?

[r0bert8841]

At 22, Laine scored 63 points in 68 games, including 28 goals. At 22, Yzerman scored 102 points in 64 games, including 50 goals. Oh yeah, and even at the same age their reputations were polar opposites in terms of work ethic.

Different eras? Sure. But definitely different players.

Way to cherry pick one season that happens to be Laines worst. At 19 Laine scored 44 and Yzerman 30.

The point being, young elite offensive players with bad defense is something Wings fans have completely accepted the past 40 years.

 

[Hen Kolland]

Mantha has yet to score 30 goals in 4 seasons, Laine has done it 3 times despite being 3 years younger. Offensively no one on the Red Wings has had this goal scoring ability since Zetterberg in his prime.

You wouldn’t trade Mantha or Zadina for 10+ years of prime Zetterberg’s goal scoring ability? Cause I would do it in a heart beat.

But I’m anticipating that Zadina can get close to prime Zetterberg goal scoring...

Prime Zetterberg scoring is just breaking the 40 goal mark once in his career. And before you say “yeah but he was on pace for it” I’ll step in and say then you have to consider Mantha a 30 goal scorer.

It’s not about losing Mantha or losing Zadina. It’s the full culmination of the deal that would have to take place.

It’s not simply just upgrading Zadina’s goal scoring. It’s giving up Zadina plus draft picks, or Zadina plus prospects. It’s not just an upgrade, it’s the $7-8 million dollars a year that I’m going to be required to pay Laine in excess of what I pay Zadina and the prospects. It’s not just an upgrade, it’s also downgrading playmaking abilities, downgrading two way play. It’s the risk that Laine comes here and behaves like a dickhead and creates a rift.

You can’t lose sight of what is actually at play in all of this. It isn’t a video game where you can just go increase a player’s skill on a whim, or force manually swap players 1 for 1.

Would I love to have a magical increase in goal scoring output by one man on the roster? Sure, but at what cost. Because it ain’t free.

 

[Snuggs]

You're forgetting about opportunity cost.

Who else do we end up losing on our team because of how expensive Laine's contract is? What other holes are we not able to fix via free agency or trades because the money is tied up in one player?

10 mil for any player not named McDavid or Draisaitl is too high for me.

Laine is good, but he's not THAT good.

I'm not forgetting about opportunity cost. Name a better trade right now? Name a better offseason signing in the next two years? I mean honestly, the twitter trade, Zadina/Cholowski/2nd round pick. That's CHEAP. CHEAP! CHEAP! You take that almost every time. I don't think it's real but wow, what a low cost for a Rocket Richard contestant year in and out.

There isnt' one signing though. Straight up, no one is coming here to play on a bottom feeder team. The only reason you'd have a sniff at Laine is because he wants paid and traded. That's it, open market you don't even get a sniff. Any player worth paying, right now, isn't coming here, cause we're litterally drafts away from being competitive. The shelves are bare of talent. Barkov/Jones, they aren't coming here to just be competitive. They can get paid and play for cups somewhere else. Trading for Laine changes that significantly and it's not really worth arguing, Mantha/Laine on two differently lines is a big deal. The PP would be upgraded significantly. I mean really 40 goal scorers don't usually come on the market, this is a really unique case, I'm sure the JETS don't even REALLY wanna trade Laine, they'll basically never get equal value. But, Wings are in position to feast on cap strapped teams like them(JETS). It's an opportunity not many GM's in the game will see again before they are fired. If you trade for a pick from a cap strapped team, you're literally hoping you pick a winger like Laine,( or close to it). Wings will have a lot of money coming off the books soon, signing Laine to even 10 million won't hurt them. Signing another round/collection of Nielsens/numb-nuts to 4-6 million who isn't that good will be the problem.

Long story short... Oppertunitty cost huh? How about a bird in hand is worth more than two in the bush?

Defense, for the most part is mostly effort too, so idk. I think he can improve vs decline.

 

[newfy]

He’s a kid in a Canadian media market, some drama is bound to happen. It’s not fair to read too much into it. I’m sure most kids in the league have issues at that age and just don’t get the same attention.

And that’s laughable acting like his floor of 30 goals is bad. Here’s a fun fact, Laine in his 4 seasons in the NHL has had more 30 goal seasons than the last 11 seasons of all Red Wings players combined (3 vs 2). Laine isn’t these faux 30 goal scorers like Mantha/Tatar/Nyquist/Franzen that maybe could hit 30 goals in their best season if they hadnt missed a couple games, he’s a guy who will hit 30 on his worst years and 50+ on his best. He would instantly be our go to goal scorer for the next 15 seasons if we play our cards right.

He’s definitely an elite goal scorer. A floor of 30 goals at 22 is incredible. He’s 22 years old, that’s not even close to his prime. A change of scenery would definitely help.

A floor of 30 goals isnt bad at all, but when your goal totals are dropping on a stacked offensive team where you are only asked to score goals and are detrimental in every other area of the game, its cause for concern. Like I said, hes a weirdo as well and its not just Canadian media. Although the media is also covering it.

There is cause for concern when questions about him arise, and then he has two pretty mediocre seasons after back to back 44 and 36 goal seasons. You want to pay a guy with those questions about him and decreasing production be my guest

 

[jkutswings]

Way to cherry pick one season that happens to be Laines worst. At 19 Laine scored 44 and Yzerman 30.

The point being, young elite offensive players with bad defense is something Wings fans have completely accepted the past 40 years.

Nice try. You originally said, "Not trading for an elite talent that’s 22 years old because they are bad at defense is ridiculous. Yzerman played 0 defense at that age." So I looked up Yzerman's stats at the same age, and they were significantly better.

And regardless of whether any fans have accepted great offensive players who are allergic to defense, the organization has not. Bowman transformed Yzerman's game, and that was for a player that already had more points than Laine will ever score.

You might like him, and that's fine. But I'd be downright shocked if this organization at this stage of the rebuild went out and spent the assets required to trade for Patrick Laine.

 

[ricky0034]

if Laine has the motivation issues he does now what's he gonna look like once he's locked up to a long term contract and doesn't have a reason to care anymore?

now that's scary

 

[jkutswings]

if Laine has the motivation issues he does now what's he gonna look like once he's locked up to a long term contract and doesn't have a reason to care anymore?

now that's scary

All it takes is a little photoshop to put Laine's head on the body of another famous contract...

 

[Henkka]

I would hate to see this.

 

[Oddbob]

A floor of 30 goals isnt bad at all, but when your goal totals are dropping on a stacked offensive team where you are only asked to score goals and are detrimental in every other area of the game, its cause for concern. Like I said, hes a weirdo as well and its not just Canadian media. Although the media is also covering it.

There is cause for concern when questions about him arise, and then he has two pretty mediocre seasons after back to back 44 and 36 goal seasons. You want to pay a guy with those questions about him and decreasing production be my guest

There have been a number of times TSN and Jets coverage have talked about Maurice in the past 2 years trying to get Laine to play a different style, which could be the reason for the goals going down. Also, he has been mentioned in trades almost every year, so maybe having a consistent home without constant trade speculation and letting him play his sniper style is what the doctor ordered for him. He would definitely be a risk, but as of now, Mantha is an every year, "oh we hope he can stay healthy and score 30+, or his GPG is really good". End of the day we need someone who actually does score 30 goals and more a season and not just on pace to do so. Also, Mantha has compete issues as well lets not forget that. He is unmotivated many nights, and it is only when he is on that we like him. When he isn't interested he puts in similar to AA effort.

To me, pace smace, that means nothing when trying to win hockey games. "Well we missed the playoffs by 4 pts, but so and so was on pace for 40 goals but they missed 15 games or else we might have made the playoffs." That still leaves you out of the playoffs regardless how good it could have been.

 

[Hen Kolland]

I would hate to see this.

Unfortunately Henkka, you’re going to the most biased opinion on this topic.

 

[jkutswings]

When I thought Krug and all his warts would have not been worth $45M over 7 years, why would I want Laine, when he will likely cost even more?

If you're bringing in a big free agent this early in the rebuild, it has to be a guy others can rally around. An anchor on defense, or a great goaltender, or a real leader on offense. That's the opposite of Laine. People really think this is a fit with this locker room that's already frustrated about all the losing?

 

[BinCookin]

I did very much like the Phil Kessel Comparison.
Because Kessel is an amazing player, but Toronto building a team around him and trading young talent to do so, just left them without enough support pieces.

And that's exactly where we are now.

I don't like it. Do not want Laine.

 

[The Real Pastafarian]

I'd love to add Leine at 22 years old. He's going to score about 300 goals over the next 8 years. And he could learn to play better defense.

But the problem in my mind is the fact that we'd be giving up assets for what, one year of Leine? And he already makes nearly $7 million a year. So we'd give up Zadina at the least, and get one year of Leine, we'll still suck that year, then we get to try to negotiate a contract with him.

He'll still be an RFA, I think, but there's still no guarantee we reach an agreement with him at all, and if we do, it's going to be for something like $9.5 million a year and it will hamstring us for 7 or 8 years. Leine's a guy you could picture sitting out a season, if we didn't meet his salary demand. Something like 12% of the total cap for one guy -- unless that guy's a Lidstrom-level d-man or Datsyuk-level center, that's a recipe for disaster.

If he had 6 years left on his current contract at, say, $7.8 million a year, I'd say: Give up Zadina + Cholowski + several second-round picks. Or I might even consider trading our first rounder next year for him, without protection. But he doesn't have six years left, he has one. We'd be buying a pig in a poke.

 

[r0bert8841]

I did very much like the Phil Kessel Comparison.
Because Kessel is an amazing player, but Toronto building a team around him and trading young talent to do so, just left them without enough support pieces.

And that's exactly where we are now.

I don't like it. Do not want Laine.

I think that’s on Burke though. I fully believe Yzerman would be able to find supporting players. In Tampa he managed to find quality support players better than any other team in the league.

The Wings are currently missing that top end talent to build around though.

 

[jkutswings]

The Wings are currently missing that top end talent to build around though.

Which is not a one dimensional winger who complains about ice time.

 

[Henkka]

Unfortunately Henkka, you’re going to the most biased opinion on this topic.

Loved to win the Championship with him.

10 playoff goals and MVP as 17-year old.

Maybe you like to tank for decades. I would like to win. Winning needs Elite talent.

 

[r0bert8841]

Which is not a one dimensional winger who complains about ice time.

Would you build around a 22 year old Ovechkin? Brett Hull? Yzerman? Stamkos? etc...

I personally prefer two way players, don’t get me wrong, but it is not uncommon to build teams around 1 dimensional wingers. It can work. Not my ideal way of doing it, but unless we can somehow luck out and win the draft lottery, I don’t think we have any better option on building our team around.

 

[Hen Kolland]

Loved to win the Championship with him.

10 playoff goals and MVP as 17-year old.

Maybe you like to tank for decades. I would like to win. Winning needs Elite talent.

I don’t want to tank for decades. But I think a trade for Laine has a better chance of hurting the rebuild than it does helping the rebuild.

He’s a incredible talent, but I’m 99.9999% sure that him being from Finland is the motivating factor in this scenario for you.

 

[Henkka]

I don’t want to tank for decades. But I think a trade for Laine has a better chance of hurting the rebuild than it does helping the rebuild.

He’s a incredible talent, but I’m 99.9999% sure that him being from Finland is the motivating factor in this scenario for you.

I'd love to watch that kind of player, even though he would be Russian.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Isnt it a tad concerning that this young man seems to always be unhappy and complain through the media?

Maybe just maybe the problem isn't the Winnipeg Jets but in fact, Patrick Laine...

No thx

 

[Hen Kolland]

I'd love to watch that kind of player, even though he would be Russian.

Unfortunately Laine isn’t on the same level as Ovechkin

 

[Reddwit]

Would you build around a 22 year old Ovechkin? Brett Hull? Yzerman? Stamkos? etc...

I personally prefer two way players, don’t get me wrong, but it is not uncommon to build teams around 1 dimensional wingers. It can work. Not my ideal way of doing it, but unless we can somehow luck out and win the draft lottery, I don’t think we have any better option on building our team around.

But Stamkos, Yzerman, and Ovechkin weren’t one-dimensional players in their pre-defensive commitment days. All 3 were noted for their leadership, competitiveness, and intensity dating back to juniors. No one is singing Laine’s praises as being the guy who consistently shows up, works hard, leads the team, wants to win. In fact, not knowing which Laine you’re going to get is a big part of the knock against him. The guy really is one-dimensional with the added concern that he doesn’t have the history of being the type to do what it takes to win, like the other guys mentioned.

As for Hull, no one would build around him in this day and age. I’m not even sure a player like him could have the success that Hull did in today’s NHL at the pace it’s played.

 

[Henkka]

Unfortunately Laine isn’t on the same level as Ovechkin

I didn't say that. Why do you try to put words on my mouth all the time?

 

[Henkka]

But Stamkos, Yzerman, and Ovechkin weren’t one-dimensional players in their pre-defensive commitment days. All 3 were noted for their leadership, competitiveness, and intensity dating back to juniors. No one is singing Laine’s praises as being the guy who consistently shows up, works hard, leads the team, wants to win. In fact, not knowing which Laine you’re going to get is a big part of the knock against him. The guy really is one-dimensional with the added concern that he doesn’t have the history of being the type to do what it takes to win, like the other guys mentioned.

I just can't understand how Laine is so misunderstood.

He will want to win more than any other player. He is that type. He has just started matching physically the things what he mentally is. There's HUGE character in him. He has the IT factor when stakes are high and when it's time to score a big goal. Just has too many of them on pressure situations.

And Laine is a team player. Started working on his defensive play drastically at last season, everybody saw this who watched Winnipeg. Stayed down low, assisted more chanches. Was totally different for the whole year. Far from one-dimensional. He is developing to be complete, and he has talked how he will want to be complete. That shot is a gift but he likes to be complete. 22-year old has many many years still to develop. That doesn't happen in one night. Teemu Selänne started his NHL career, as same aged what Laine is when next season will start.

I've watched his career probably most than anybody on this Red Wings board, and I can put my balls on the table, that I know what I'm writing about. I've watched Winnipeg Jets as much as Detroit on latest 3-4 years. And watched 100 games from Laine, before he came to NHL.

Still those stupid things done as 16-old follow him, and people who don't watch him are basing much of their opinions for some old and gone things.

 

[Hen Kolland]

I didn't say that. Why do you try to put words on my mouth all the time?

You are heavily implying it. “Watching a player who plays like Laine” but is Russian. Hmmm, who could that be.

All I’m saying is that you have a soft spot for Laine because he’s from Finland, which isn’t a bad thing, but bias is a real thing.