Speculation: LA Kings News, Rumors, Roster Thread part VII

[Herby]

I agree. One of the biggest things to learn when you advance a level is to understand the amount of time and space you have to work with when performing a skill. It is true that everything happens so much faster every time you advance a level.

For an offensive player, time spent possessing the puck is a big deal, and when you play top six minutes you are expected to possess the puck and do something with it. Once a player does it for a while they begin to understand the "amount of time you have" element better. Offensive players don't learn this playing on the 4th line.

While many here will disagree, I think Vilardi is best suited to play center. He has good vision and hands, and is a good passer. Someone said recently he is a puck hog, but that's not how I would describe his game. I would say he is simply a player that is most effective when he has the puck on his stick in the middle of the ice.

If Vilardi's future with the Kings isn't at center, it's probably best to move him in a deal.

Who is going to give up anything of significance for Vilardi though?

 

[Sol]

Byfield's one of the fastest skaters on the team. Only Kupari and Kempe are faster, and for them, it's acceleration.

Byfield needs to improve his first step explosiveness, but he is very fast.

It might be that. He probably is fast just don’t really see it all too much at all. But yeah I don’t think he is fast just yet. Maybe with a longer stick and improvement in his stride will help a lot

 

[KINGS17]

Who is going to give up anything of significance for Vilardi though?

Why do we need something of significance?

I don't think Vilardi's future is on the wing, so if the Kings aren't going to play him at center, move him out and make room for the next guy. Regarding Vilardi needing to play center, this may be just one man's opinion.

 

[Herby]

Why do we need something of significance?

I don't think Vilardi's future is on the wing, so if the Kings aren't going to play him at center, move him out and make room for the next guy. Regarding Vilardi needing to play center, this may be just one man's opinion.

Mentioned this in the other thread but it’s painfully obvious the Kings don’t really think highly of him, especially as a center. He had 50+ games basically gifted that 2c role last season and the Kings response to seeing that was to spend $5m on a new veteran center. Had he looked like Suzuki, Norris or Thomas last year do the Kings sign Danault? Highly unlikely.

The Danault five-year contract signing after spending a ton of high picks on centers should have told everyone how confident the Kings were in those said centers.

Poor drafting and/or development has consequences.

 

[HookKing]

Byfield's one of the fastest skaters on the team. Only Kupari and Kempe are faster, and for them, it's acceleration.

Byfield needs to improve his first step explosiveness, but he is very fast.

I love how you just ghosted AA. Nothing would give me more pleasure than Blake re-signing AA and watch 2/3 of this board go completely apeshit.

 

[King'sPawn]

I love how you just ghosted AA. Nothing would give me more pleasure than Blake re-signing AA and watch 2/3 of this board go completely apeshit.

I forgot AA, because he's not been playing. Don't let that stop you from reading too much into it or misrepresenting my feelings about him.

Yes. AA is faster than Byfield as well.

 

[MBH]

Mentioned this in the other thread but it’s painfully obvious the Kings don’t really think highly of him, especially as a center. He had 50+ games basically gifted that 2c role last season and the Kings response to seeing that was to spend $5m on a new veteran center. Had he looked like Suzuki, Norris or Thomas last year do the Kings sign Danault? Highly unlikely.

The Danault five-year contract signing after spending a ton of high picks on centers should have told everyone how confident the Kings were in those said centers.

Poor drafting and/or development has consequences.

Vilardi last year
54 games 10-13-23 in 14:45 a night 46 faceoff percentage
To me, that was a great year for a kid who hadn't played anything close to a full season in five years.

I get moving him to wing
What I don't get is banishing him to the AHL all year.

1.73 points/60 is good - not great.
But that's solid.
It was the same as Carter, better than Moore and Iafallo.

So they bring him back to the NHL and put him with a center (Byfield, 1.1 points/60) who can't produce at the NHL level right now.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

Here I thought we wanted to play meaningful games for the youth to grow...but it looks like AA back in and byfield and vilardi to the bench.

What's the point in limping into the playoffs with a bunch of aging vets and ufa mercs?

We know it won’t happen, but everyone from TM and up should be gone, including Blake. They’re completely botching the development of the most important crop of Kings prospects since Kopitar and co. It legitimately pisses me off.

 

[MBH]

Once they signed Arvidsson, why did they bring back AA?
You've got the following young forwards who needed time:

Vilardi
Kaliyev
Kupari
Akil Thomas
JAD

Doesn't even include Byfield.

 

[Schmooley]

Once they signed Arvidsson, why did they bring back AA?
You've got the following young forwards who needed time:

Vilardi
Kaliyev
Kupari
Akil Thomas
JAD

Doesn't even include Byfield.

Because Doughty publicly asked for more help (veteran players) and Kopitar asked privately. I just dont know why management thought it was a good idea to be rebuilding and competing at the same time. The veterans that played the team into the basement should not really get that much say in the direction of the team. If they want to be on a competitive team they usually get traded at that point.

 

[kilowatt]

Because Doughty publicly asked for more help (veteran players) and Kopitar asked privately. I just dont know why management thought it was a good idea to be rebuilding and competing at the same time. The veterans that played the team into the basement should not really get that much say in the direction of the team. If they want to be on a competitive team they usually get traded at that point.

Perhaps it's time to trade the veterans.

 

[crassbonanza]

I just dont know why management thought it was a good idea to be rebuilding and competing at the same time.

I agree with you full heartedly, but you have to remember how Bluc ousted Deano. In the press conference following the firing Luc said “We believe that this team has the core in place to contend for the Stanley Cup,”. Blake followed up discussing the firing of Sutter by saying We don’t score. It’s been that way this year. There needs to be some emphasis on how we’re going to do that,” “There’s time now through this offseason to come up with those different philosophies. Whoever the head coach, when he’s hired, will have a major impact on that.”. They sold AEG that the team was being held back and they could turn the team back into a Stanley Cup contender. Kopitar put together his best season and dragged the Kings into the playoffs the following year and they were swept. This led to the signing of Kovalchuk and the picking up of WD as an interim once things started going downhill. They realized that things weren't going well after that failure of a season and changed tracks, but I believe there was still pressure for the team to be competitive with Doughty/Kopitar.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

We know it won’t happen, but everyone from TM and up should be gone, including Blake. They’re completely botching the development of the most important crop of Kings prospects since Kopitar and co. It legitimately pisses me off.

How? Kaliyev seems to be developing great, as does Bjornfoot, Spence, Durzi, Lizotte, Kupari, so....how?

 

[MBH]

Because Doughty publicly asked for more help (veteran players) and Kopitar asked privately. I just dont know why management thought it was a good idea to be rebuilding and competing at the same time. The veterans that played the team into the basement should not really get that much say in the direction of the team. If they want to be on a competitive team they usually get traded at that point.

To me, I think it made lots of sense.
IF you make room for some kids.

Start the year with:
Kempe Kopitar Vilardi
Arvidsson Danault Kaliyev
Iafallo JAD Moore
Lemieux Lizotte Brown
Still no room for Byfield, THomas, Kupari or Lias Andersson.
---
They'd come up during injuries.
And then next year, Brown goes away... So that's one spot.
But where does Byfield come in?
Maybe as a 4C with JAD dropping down and Lizotte going away?

If the Kings blow it, I think they need to give serious consideration to trading away Doughty or Kopitar this year.

There's just no way to develop all these players.
And very little progress was made at all this year.

 

[KINGS17]

Perhaps it's time to trade the veterans.

Past time.

 

[crassbonanza]

How? Kaliyev seems to be developing great, as does Bjornfoot, Spence, Durzi, Lizotte, Kupari, so....how?

I mean, I guess it is all a matter of opinion, but I don't think any of them have had "great" development. Kaliyev has been good and is probably the best of the bunch, but he is at only 25 points. Lizotte has 22 points, Kupari has 12 points. Bjornfot has 8 points and a -10.6 GF% Rel. Durzi has put up 26 points and has been fun as hell to watch on the powerplay, but he also has a -10.17 GF% Rel. Spence has only been up for a bit and his initial stats have been pleasantly surprising, but it's still early to tell in my opinion. Most of your examples have been steady, but nothing exceptional. Contrast that with the development of Vilardi, Turcotte, Byfield, and Thomas who were all considered high end prospects. I think it's fair to question the development team.

 

[KINGS17]

I agree with you full heartedly, but you have to remember how Bluc ousted Deano. In the press conference following the firing Luc said “We believe that this team has the core in place to contend for the Stanley Cup,”. Blake followed up discussing the firing of Sutter by saying We don’t score. It’s been that way this year. There needs to be some emphasis on how we’re going to do that,” “There’s time now through this offseason to come up with those different philosophies. Whoever the head coach, when he’s hired, will have a major impact on that.”. They sold AEG that the team was being held back and they could turn the team back into a Stanley Cup contender. Kopitar put together his best season and dragged the Kings into the playoffs the following year and they were swept. This led to the signing of Kovalchuk and the picking up of WD as an interim once things started going downhill. They realized that things weren't going well after that failure of a season and changed tracks, but I believe there was still pressure for the team to be competitive with Doughty/Kopitar.

...when the pressure should have been to trade Doughty/Kopitar.

 

[crassbonanza]

...when the pressure should have been to trade Doughty/Kopitar.

It's funny, I have a feeling Dean would have gone for the roster overhaul, he had already mentioned wanting to go that direction. I didn't agree with many of his decisions after the cup wins(Lucic and Bishop specifically), so who knows. I do remember discussing this in the past with you and I was behind keeping Kopitar. I still think that keeping Kopitar could have worked through the rebuild, but the team hasn't been managing the veterans well. If you are tanking, don't give your aging veteran who carried the team on his back for over a decade 22 minutes a game. I am worried that the team is somehow still going to have 25 million tied up in 4 forwards over the age of 30 years old in 23-24.

 

[bland]

Mentioned this in the other thread but it’s painfully obvious the Kings don’t really think highly of him, especially as a center. He had 50+ games basically gifted that 2c role last season and the Kings response to seeing that was to spend $5m on a new veteran center. Had he looked like Suzuki, Norris or Thomas last year do the Kings sign Danault? Highly unlikely.

The Danault five-year contract signing after spending a ton of high picks on centers should have told everyone how confident the Kings were in those said centers.

Poor drafting and/or development has consequences.

Agree with the sentiment, but I think by and large that most folks are misreading the situation and real problem here.

This team has no problem drafting or scouting these players. They are all fine choices. The real problem is that the entire direction of the franchise is based on the slow boil acclimation of these kids into an existing roster of young to old veterans. I would guess that they think the benefits are a natural competitive state, a lighter workload, and a developmental program based on slow, incremental matriculation up the ranks of the roster.

The entire tone of the franchise is wrong. They don't realize the healing benefit of cutting ties to the previous identity - which was successful and likely tints the vision, thinking that these once-warriors were still at their peak.

The vets won, won again, got paid BIG, became satisfied and stopped pushing. The tone of this franchise isn't about winning, its about playing out a string, maintaining instead of progressing. Its a dire, depressing tone. There is no true hunger here despite some prideful playing.

Kids coming in aren't allowed to play to their strengths. Has nothing to do with ability. They all have to think instead of react. They have to be in this place at this time and when they aren't they try to correct it instead of just naturally reacting to whats happening around them. You can actively see the confusion, Byfield and Vilardi especially. They look like they are trying to play a game they don't know instead of being encouraged to play the game that they have and learning the rest on the job.

All these kids look like they would thrive in an attacking style of play. That's what kids play now, mostly rushes and counters. In order for that to happen, the team would have to accept that they are going to take some lumps now and that the ends of these great Cup winners careers are going to end with long, slow, exhaled whimpers.

But those vets don't want that. And their management is all former players who all stayed well past their best-by dates and know all to well that the core still thinks that they can win at this stage, when outside the organization everyone can see that their fires are burning too low to win again.

So the kids come into the league in supporting roles, ones that require them to be competent defensively, robotic to the outdated cause, and somehow nobody other than the fans notice that it is just killing the natural instincts and desire to thrive in an offensive league.

If the idea is that these kids need to work on structure first and second before working on what made them desirable, it isn't working.

Some dipshit on this board earlier this week didn't understand the difference between first and fourth line hockey. Kings17 just brought it up a few posts ago. Attacking hockey is a mindset, not a skill. It must be nurtured and allowed to grow, you can't interrupt it, postpone it, or assume that it will come in later after structure is learned. Careers are too short, every draft creates new opportunities and shifts organizational needs.

You have to be willing to accept tough times in order for progress. There is no progress here. No new players will make enough of a difference, no kids will take over the top spots. The focus must change. I advocated trading the Cup vets for years, even at less than market value, just to prevent this malaise from occurring.

 

[johnjm22]

My fear is that we're going to end up like Detroit or Philadelphia.

In theory, these organizations have done the right thing for a decade; be patient, hold on to all your picks and keep drafting in the 1st round.

The result? A few good players here and there, but on the whole the organizations have accomplished nothing.

You have to strike gold in the draft. Multiple times in a relatively short time span. If you don't, you'll be stuck in a cycle of mediocrity. By the time your draftees are ready to contribute, your current players are past their prime.

 

[kingsfan]

My fear is that we're going to end up like Detroit or Philadelphia.

In theory, these organizations have done the right thing for a decade; be patient, hold on to all your picks and keep drafting in the 1st round.

The result? A few good players here and there, but on the whole the organizations have accomplished nothing.

You have to strike gold in the draft. Multiple times in a relatively short time span. If you don't, you'll be stuck in a cycle of mediocrity. By the time your draftees are ready to contribute, your current players are past their prime.

Both had/have a problem with direction. Detroit likely corrected theirs by jettisoning Holland and handing the keys to Yzerman. His drafts so far have looked good, at least for the first round. That team seems to be on an upward trajectory similar to Tampa's when Yzerman was there. Holland's drafts the last several years were subpar. Holding onto your picks only matters if you can draft with them.

In Philly, Hextall seen the writing on the wall and wanted to be patient, ownership didn't and now he's in Pittsburgh and Philly is doing Philly things.

The real question we have with Blake and Co. is can they draft and/or develop properly. It's hard as fans to determine which of those issues is the real problem (or if it's both). A good indicator is if guys live up to their draft hype and hopefully exceed it. With the early picks such as Turcotte, it doesn't look like it. With the late 1sts and early 2nds, like Bjornfot, Kaliyev, etc. the results are pretty good, so it's hard to gauge just yet.

Personally, I've generally liked the picks they've made, but I have questions about how some of them are handled after.

 

[BigKing]

Oh, I'd take the 2000 Kings over this. At least those Kings were fun to watch, as they had the 5th best offense, 11th best record in the league, and the 11th best PP as well.

This team on the other hand is excruciating to watch when the Danault line isn't on the ice.

Think they got swept out the first round so we might get that in common.

 

[kingsfan]

Think they got swept out the first round so we might get that in common.

With that highscoring offense mustering six total goals to boot.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

How? Kaliyev seems to be developing great, as does Bjornfoot, Spence, Durzi, Lizotte, Kupari, so....how?

If the bluechips don’t reach their ceiling, none of this matters. You can find guys like Bjornfot and Lizotte everywhere in the league for pennies on the dollar. I love Kaliyev and think he has a ton of potential, but 20ish points in a D+3 season for a player prized on offensive output isn’t exactly something to swoon over. And didn’t he literally just get benched? Same as Byfield and Vilardi? What happened to Byfield, Vilardi, and Turcotte being the next Kopitar, Doughty, and Brown? Now we’re praying just one of these kids becomes a top six forward.

And that’s the f***ing problem. Either the prospects suck (they don’t) or the coaching staff/management has completely botched their development. Either way, we’re getting very little production out of any of these homegrown kids, and instead following the ghost of Anze Kopitar and a bunch of mercenaries into another black hole season. That’s a huge problem for a team that should be coming out of a rebuild, especially when you look at other prospects drafted directly around these guys who are lighting the league on fire. Oh but right, Zegras and Stutzle started five more faceoffs in the offensive zone or whatever so they’re basically playing with cheat codes compared to our guys. The excuse making is insane around here.

Without top end prospects developing into top end players, this franchise will not win anything. If Kopitar and Doughty and Brown don’t develop into top end players, we win nothing. If you took off the cheerleading outfit for five seconds, you’d see that.

 

[kingsfan]

I love Kaliyev and think he has a ton of potential, but 20ish points in a D+3 season for a player prized on offensive output isn’t exactly something to swoon over.

Not that I disagree with your overall post, but just to point out, amongst guys from the 2019 draft, Kaliyev is 8th in games played, 8th in goals and 12th in points. In goals per game, he's 5th. For a second rounder, he's doing pretty solid really and outpacing a bunch of much higher-touted offensively skilled players from that draft year.