Kyle Dubas discussion

[Sypher04]

Judging from this thread that seems like a real accurate forecast.

Okay so hypothetically let’s say the Leafs do draw Tampa in round 1, which seems likely. Do you admit that the Leafs would be pretty well universally regarded as the underdogs vs the defending 2 time Stanley cup champs? Even if they finish a few points up with home ice? I think it’s pretty fair to say most people will pick Tampa over us?

At that point, does it not matter the context of how we play? Obviously everyone wants us to be the underdog that overcomes Tampa to finally move on here, but speaking realistically, with the advantage they hold particular in the net, if the Leafs and Bolts were to go the distance, in a hard fought series and hard fought game 7 where the Leafs ultimately lose, how does the register? It’s not a choke job most certainly, even if it’s not the result the organization or any of us want. Conversely, If we play like dogshit or no show the elimination game this team should be wide open to criticism at that point.

As always, how things go down is really paramount in assessing the level of failure to advance.

Kinda like how Florida and Tampa went 6 games last year, hard fought series, and nobody really talks about Florida this year the same way people tend to frame what we need to accomplish.

The Leafs no doubt failed hard against Montreal. Failed against Columbus too, though a softer fail I guess since that series was largely viewed as close based on their respective seasons. But this year, looking at the quality of team we are basically garauntee to get in round 1, the matchup is relevant

 

[All Mod Cons]

Okay so hypothetically let’s say the Leafs do draw Tampa in round 1, which seems likely. Do you admit that the Leafs would be pretty well universally regarded as the underdogs vs the defending 2 time Stanley cup champs? Even if they finish a few points up with home ice? I think it’s pretty fair to say most people will pick Tampa over us?

At that point, does it not matter the context of how we play? Obviously everyone wants us to be the underdog that overcomes Tampa to finally move on here, but speaking realistically, with the advantage they hold particular in the net, if the Leafs and Bolts were to go the distance, in a hard fought series and hard fought game 7 where the Leafs ultimately lose, how does the register? It’s not a choke job most certainly, even if it’s not the result the organization or any of us want.

As always, how things go down is really paramount in assessing the level of failure to advance.

Kinda like how Florida and Tampa went 6 games last year, hard fought series, and nobody really talks about Florida this year the same way people tend to frame what we need to accomplish.

The Leafs no doubt failed hard against Montreal. Failed against Columbus too, though a softer fail I guess since that series was largely viewed as close based on their respective seasons. But this year, looking at the quality of team we are basically garauntee to get in round 1, the matchup is relevant

So who should/can we play in the playoffs and win?

 

[Sypher04]

So who should/can we play in the playoffs and win?

I didn’t say we can’t win. I believe we certainly can. I am saying that, as the underdog most likely, if we lose, how that goes down and how we played throughout is as important as the result itself

 

[Nylanderthal]

So who should/can we play in the playoffs and win?

Well I think as with any east match up this year any team can beat anyone else. The twice defending cup champs in round 1 would be a tough one to measure solely based on outcome.

 

[PromisedLand]

Feels bad man. That's not wrong.

I'm glad Kallgren has "settled things down".

But without this seemingly divine gift from the Gods, the fragile Leafs Nation would be in full panic mode.

Hopefully we do win a round this year.

It is amazing that we in the Leafs nation are still hoping to win just one round

Goes on to show, at least IMO, how planning and strategy has panned out for the management team lol

Well..... Leafs are gonna run into either Tampa/Florida or Canes in the 1st round so..... oh well....

 

[Strangle]

Then its no longer GM. Its the coaching staff

Which ironically the GM assembled

So it’s never the players fault?? Lmfao

 

[PromisedLand]

Leafs Nation has already seen this .... Way back in 2017-18 they finished tied for 6th overall in points with 105 and 12 points off the President's Trophy. They were 3rd in GF and 10th in goals against.

This is the team Kyle Dubas inherited. So 4 years later being in the same spot with now the 3 Amigo's in their prime isn't really something to get excited about. .. Been there, done that !!!!

We all know the frustrating part is not about duplicating past NHL regular season results, but rather the disappointing playoff results that followed.

Kyle Dubas was hired to move the ball forward not keep it in place.

 

[Voodoo Child]

It is amazing that we in the Leafs nation are still hoping to win just one round

Goes on to show, at least IMO, how planning and strategy has panned out for the management team lol

Well..... Leafs are gonna run into either Tampa/Florida or Canes in the 1st round so..... oh well....

The whole thing was immediately crippled by handing over big money.

Matthews is underpaid, wish the term was longer.

Willy has a fair deal.

Mitch was worth 9 at the most and if Dubas had any balls he would have pulled him aside and said ‘I will trade you to Arizona and bar anyone related to you from ever entering the SBC if you don’t sign this deal.’

JT has been great overall in his tenure but was he really necessary? Naz was gone after that last suspension but nothing was stopping the Leafs from getting a guy like Sam Reinhart.

And…

The ‘ELC depth to place around the stars’, yeah that hasn’t shown up on F, so we hunt bargain bin deals because picks get traded away for scrubs like Foligno or to fix Lou’s Marleau mistake.

Sometimes they just get unlucky, like Amirov’s brain tumor (what’s happening there? I haven’t heard much).

They’ll get there eventually but yeah, frustrating.

 

[Teeder Keon]

As much as I would like disagree with yih and most of your takes , I can’t .you are absolutely correct . I still think that our organization and franchise and management team is doing the best they can under the restraints of these times , and I think Dubas has done a terrific job as well .
But in professional sports and business it’s about at the very least “ moving the ball forward “ and in this case , we haven’t , he hasn’t , the players haven’t and coach .
This is a very very important playoff run or lack there of for the Leafs and Leafs Nation .
You are 100% on the mark !
Having said that , I wouldn’t judge it all on winning the cup this year , there’s a lot of real real great teams out there in contention, and we are one of them .but at the very very least , winning one round and looking great in doing so and being competitive and close to winning for the remainder .
After that another step ..
I’ve said it before ..,
After so many years of being A Leaf Nut …I just want a highly competitive team with great elite players , great stand up people in the community, you be of tgd best in terms of player development, a top notch leader in organizations in any sport around the world and to compete for the cup every year .
GFLG

 

[Ciao]

Pre Kyle team was built around depth and definitely had the better [roster] . . .


Kyle needed to fire Keefe front of the public and make him apologize. Thats my beef with him. Bloody softie nice guy

The 2017-18 Leafs had Kadri and better goaltending, but otherwise they were not better and did not have a deep roster.

You may recall that their defence was a mess. The defencemen that have since left are Gardiner, Hainsey, Zaitsev, Carrick, Polak, Borgman and a handful of others who barely played.

JVR and Bozak were a black hole without the puck and seemed barely interested in defence. Losing them was almost addition by subtraction.

Losing Kadri was a big blunder and a great loss. He has never been replaced.

If you prefer any or all of the Marleau, Hyman, Komarov, Moore, Martin, Kapanen, Leivo and others that filled out the roster that year over the group they have now, then I guess we just disagree. I think this year's group is better throughout.

Fred Andersen was great, and Curtis McElhinney was picked up off waivers to have a late-career career year. Give me that goaltending over anything we've seen since then. The Garrett Sparks adventure was a complete and utter failure.

Some win, some lose, but overall this team is much better save and except for in goal. That's a big save and except.

I think your proposed treatment of Keefe is childish.

 

[Shooter2x]

So it’s never the players fault?? Lmfao

whoa doppleganger. Don't get too rowdy now before I get in trouble for your sins

 

[57 Years No Cup]

This team is 5th in the entire league and 8 points off of the presidents trophy ffs. This place is a joke

Even with leagues worst goaltending over 2+ months they are 19-9-3 in that span. Imagine where this team would be with average goaltending?

Instead of focusing on the 10 mill “wasted” why don’t you consider the fact that the 2.7 mill you didn’t mention is Bunting, Kase and Kampf. Or why did you not mention that Ritchie has been turned into Lyubushkin who is currently doing well playing on the top pair?

Leafs are the Bestest Regular Season Team EVER!

Call me when the playoffs start.

 

[DarkKnight]

They only included major trades during this tenure. There were no home run trades, but overall it was just a lot of deck shuffling and nothing deals.

The actual conclusion was that Dubas hasn’t utilized trades to build his team and has been relying on value UFA add.

List:
1. Campbell
2. Muzzin
3. Kapanen
4. Lyubushkin
5. Galchenyuk
6. McCann
7. Andreas Johnsson
8. Hutchinson
9. Petan
10. Barabanov
11. Zaitsev
12. Rittich/Nash
13. Malgin/marchment
14. Marleau
15. Kadri
16. Foligno

Thanks!

 

[Buds17]

It is amazing that we in the Leafs nation are still hoping to win just one round

Goes on to show, at least IMO, how planning and strategy has panned out for the management team lol

Well..... Leafs are gonna run into either Tampa/Florida or Canes in the 1st round so..... oh well....

Speaking for myself, I'd just about say that winning a round is much more expectation than it is hope at this point. I don't necessarily need more but am finding it increasingly difficult to settle for less.

 

[Strangle]

whoa doppleganger. Don't get too rowdy now before I get in trouble for your sins

Ahhhh a fellow castle fan, I see!

Not many of these around these days, people see it as a political symbol or some shit lol

 

[57 Years No Cup]

Everything will be forgiven if the leafs can win a playoff round.

Nope. Not good enough.

 

[Leafsfan74]

Each year a new NHL GM learns. The covid circumstances handcuffed him more than most teams, but, all other GMs have the same restraints.

We will see what he does this deadline. I suspect that he is a far better informed GM now than when he started. Also, he has evolved in his thinking, I presume.

For a guy who has made quite a few moves, I can only dispute two or three transactions which I won't rehash here at this juncture. None of them critically horrible decisions that I disagreed with to be honest, but, eye brow raising.

As for the teams growth, I thought for certain that last year the Leafs were going to beat the Habs and most likely the winner of the Jets/Oilers. I was only concerned about Price, Weber and Anderson and they all brought their best game and STILL only won by their skin of their teeth. Their fortune required the Leafs 2nd Center to be out all series and their toughest D Man to miss the last two games.

How that Habs team beat Vegas (that gift misplay from Fleury really turned the series on a dime) is astonishing to me and it illustrates just how critical shutdown D and solid goaltending is, but I digree.

Win or lose, yes, Dubas owns the results. Not as much as the team or coach does, in that order, but he owns his share.

If Dubas improves this team and especially if Muzzin is out until the postseason and he has plenty of cap space and uses it, it will be entirely on the players themselves for their failures. They are far from alone in the last 17 seasons but they ad mnagement need to put up this season, I don't care if they have to face the '76 Habs, they need to get it done.

 

[Nylanderthal]

The 2017-18 Leafs had Kadri and better goaltending, but otherwise they were not better and did not have a deep roster.

You may recall that their defence was a mess. The defencemen that have since left are Gardiner, Hainsey, Zaitsev, Carrick, Polak, Borgman and a handful of others who barely played.

JVR and Bozak were a black hole without the puck and seemed barely interested in defence. Losing them was almost addition by subtraction.

Losing Kadri was a big blunder and a great loss. He has never been replaced.

If you prefer any or all of the Marleau, Hyman, Komarov, Moore, Martin, Kapanen, Leivo and others that filled out the roster that year over the group they have now, then I guess we just disagree. I think this year's group is better throughout.

Fred Andersen was great, and Curtis McElhinney was picked up off waivers to have a late-career career year. Give me that goaltending over anything we've seen since then. The Garrett Sparks adventure was a complete and utter failure.

Some win, some lose, but overall this team is much better save and except for in goal. That's a big save and except.

I think your proposed treatment of Keefe is childish.

Considering the kids were on elcs the depth of those teams should’ve been better. The fact the supporting cast is better now, after having to pay out half the cap to 4 forwards is a testament to Dubas’ ability to find talent in all avenues.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

I didn’t say we can’t win. I believe we certainly can. I am saying that, as the underdog most likely, if we lose, how that goes down and how we played throughout is as important as the result itself

Ahhhhh...... Participation Trophies, how nice!

This this the NHL, not House League.

 

[Dreakmur]

And what job do the players have, once the GM has made his decisions?

So no GM has ever made a bad move?

Jason Bottterill decided that Jeff Skinner was worth 9 million dollars. Is that entirely on Jeff Skinner to prove him right?

 

[Dreakmur]

So it’s never the players fault?? Lmfao

You’re trying to assign all the blame to one side or the other than it’s almost always both sides. Just because the players are at fault doesn’t mean that h the GM isn’t also at fault.

 

[therealkoho]

It is amazing that we in the Leafs nation are still hoping to win just one round

Goes on to show, at least IMO, how planning and strategy has panned out for the management team lol

Well..... Leafs are gonna run into either Tampa/Florida or Canes in the 1st round so..... oh well....

nah LeaFland is hoping for "one round."

Leafs Nation is always looking at winning 4!

 

[Strangle]

So no GM has ever made a bad move?

Jason Bottterill decided that Jeff Skinner was worth 9 million dollars. Is that entirely on Jeff Skinner to prove him right?

Of course they have made bad moves. But a GM can make all the right moves, but it doesn’t matter if the players don’t execute.

At the end of the day, Dubas can’t score goals.

 

[Strangle]

You’re trying to assign all the blame to one side or the other than it’s almost always both sides. Just because the players are at fault doesn’t mean that h the GM isn’t also at fault.

I happen to agree with 98% of Dubas moves. If you think the team isn’t good enough to win a cup, that’s fine. I disagree. I think this team is good enough to win.

The plan has been written, the talent has been assembled, now it’s time for the players to execute.

 

[Nylanderthal]

Because I can already forecast excuse making, what they are best at, coming through the organization that they ran into a juggernaut TBL or FLA in the first round. While ignoring they lost to weaker teams like MTL & CLB.

Those 2020 leafs and Columbus were tied in the standings as the 8-9 play-in matchup. How were they weaker?
The habs and specifically carry price then went on to sweep the Jets & then handle everyone’s cup favourite Vegas pretty handily.
Was it a disappointment? Of course, but context is important.